hypothetical question time.

[Danny]

So i was watching star trek with friends and this got us talking about what we would do if we were explorers discovering new aliens races. I posed a question that got interesting reactions, so i pose the same to you now. Lets say its 200 years in the future, mankind has discovered some astounding technological leap that allows amazing distances to be travelled easily in much shorter times. You find a planet with a sentient life form on it. could be anything from star trek style vulcan type humanoids to mass effect style hanaarr type jellyfish things. Only thing that matters is they are as advanced society wise as us and we can communicate. now heres the question: you are meeting with their ambassadors, making small talk and you use the word 'war' in some way. They interrupt you to ask "What is 'war'?" which is a concept they have no idea about. what do you do? do you tell them? is it right to tell them? could this alien concept bring nothing but tragedy to a more 'innocent' race all because of small talk? what do you do?

[shootemindehead]

Alien Race: "What's war?" Us: "Well, Von Clausewitz said that 'War is the continuation of politics by other means...'" Alien race: "What's politics" Us: "Oh fuck off!" *Gets back on spaceship and nukes the site from orbit.* It was the only way to be sure.

[Tricky]

Alien Race: "What's war?" Us: "Well, Von Clausewitz said that 'War is the continuation of politics by other means...'" Alien race: "What's politics" Us: "Oh fuck off!" *Gets back on spaceship and nukes the site from orbit.* It was the only way to be sure.

[blind2d]

Hahaha! Awww, but seriously, I'd tell them. See how they react. I'd say, "Well, it's wrong, but lots of beings of my race practice it..." *translates Black Sabbath's 'War Pigs' for them* "That's a pretty good explanation." They'd probably be disgusted and afraid, which they would have every right to be of course.

[AcesandEights]

I would only tell them if there wasn't some way for me to help unilaterally limit or sever contact between the two species (ie. get back on my ship, launch and erase the navigational data). Otherwise, you have a choice of telling them 'My species has a way of praying on others, so beware.' , or 'Yes, good friends, may we live long in mutual peace and amity....by the way, what did you say the clearance codes for your planetary shields were again?' There is also the possibility of asking to spend time with the species and teach them the ways of your people, to try and get them up to speed on what to expect and act as a cultural advisor of sorts, but that'd be a long, possibly lonely and probably contentious life choice. Quite possibly the most morally responsible, to my mind, if severing contact and leaving them to their peaceful existence was not a realistic long term option (ie. we're putting a spacehighway through their sector ).

[SymphonicX]

This is essentially the same situation as introducing the native americans to a concept of ownership....didn't work out too well for them, mainly because they never really embraced it. With a juvenile understanding of the complexities of war, it would be unlikely for a species unexposed to it, to indulge in it. War by nature requires conflict, and one can assume this alien species is also unaware of what conflict is also. So you'd really have to introduce them to a concept of ownership first - because as we know, war is about resources. So really the first step wouldn't be to introduce them to the word "war" but to look at their lifestyles and start shit stirring about what the other alien race on that planet has that your current aliens do not. Then you'd probably find that without a concept of ownership, war, or conflict, they also have no concept of jealousy - so you'd probably have to do the "ner ner ner ner ner" dance in front of them for a few hours to get them suffificiently riled up. So here's what I think would happen - if you told a race with no concept of ownership, jealousy, war, conflict, etc what "war" was - they'd probably have an alien chuckle at our consistent greed and individualism as a species and laugh us off the face of the planet. The concept of war wouldn't corrupt them, as a species evolved enough to be on par with humans isn't a species that we're talking about here - the species here have evolved WAY past that and any ideals of de-evolving them would be pretty pointless. -- -------- Post added at 10:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 AM ---------- As with the native americans, who were spiritually and ecologically and even socially far more advanced than the colonists which ruined their lives....

[Tricky]

Then you'd probably find that without a concept of ownership, war, or conflict, they also have no concept of jealousy - so you'd probably have to do the "ner ner ner ner ner" dance in front of them for a few hours to get them suffificiently riled up. How about wars of ideology? if these aliens were conscious beings then its likely they would have beliefs of some sort which would likely be different to those of any visiting human, always a flashpoint for conflict among us "we come in peace" humans!

[SymphonicX]

How about wars of ideology? if these aliens were conscious beings then its likely they would have beliefs of some sort which would likely be different to those of any visiting human, always a flashpoint for conflict among us "we come in peace" humans! Now you've got me thinking...!! This is...definitely a Tricky one...boom boom. God this is so hard...I can't come up with anything on this one...!! Argh. OK so we're assuming that if there are various sects of this alien race, they all live in perfect harmony and thusly don't have any conflicting viewpoints. By the token of your example, the conflict would arise from the Alien's stance on human beings - however with no concept of war, the idealogy could conflict but they may be powerless to do anything about it, or may have ways to deal with it that don't resort to violence. In this example surely the difference rests on who throws the first "punch". If Aliens throw the first punch, then by and large they already have a concept of war. If the human's throw the first punch, then not only is war discussion moot at that point, it would be the human's directly introducing this concept through example rather than conversation.... We could however, for the sake of argument, assume there are multiple sects within the Alien world - one sect of alien species has more resources than the other. Harking back to the original question, considering they have no concept of forcibly taking resources from another, would we introduce them to the concept of secularism by idly explaining war as a positive or beneficial thing to their species? In that case, I'd say that person is nothing short of evil. Imagine you have the chance to explain the concept of war to an entire species, knowing full well the horrors which it has brought us, and you choose to PROMOTE it rather than delivering it as a cautionary tale of greed and power? That would be madness....! So that's the answer to this question - how would I go about explaining war to another species - quite simply, as a cautionary tale of how an entire planet can consume itself with self interest. PS: we can't bring up the defence argument in this (ie: we had to go to war with germany because of XXX which makes it a noble endeavour) - as an alien species wouldn't be concerned with defending themselves against a threat which has never materialised...- as this has technically never happened to them previously. To introduce this innocent species to war requires an aggressor - and that would HAVE to be the sect of aliens that are having this explained to them...which would mean WE would create that aggressor. They'd eventually ask us: what happened in WW2? We'd have to reply: Germany's ruler decided to go on a massive landgrab to secure more territory for his empirical reign. They'd ask us: "so Germany's ruler was right to do this?" we'd say "no, not at all...in fact the world went to war to stop it happening"...they'd reply: "so war requires a group of people who aren't happy with what they've got to violently steal land from other people?" we'd say "essentially, yes - although as Tricky said on HPOTD, there are idealogical wars which are thrown into the mix". They'd hopefully eventually reply: "well, we don't care what the other sects have, we've been happy this way for thousands of years, and would rather be living than dead, and as we don't face the same threats in our world, we couldn't justify breaking our cultural heritage by de-evolving into a race of barbarians." -- -------- Post added at 02:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 PM ---------- at which point I'd call them a bunch of tree hugging Navi morons and get in my class 2 loader...

[acealive1]

Alien Race: "What's war?" Us: "Well, Von Clausewitz said that 'War is the continuation of politics by other means...'" Alien race: "What's politics" Us: "Oh fuck off!" *Gets back on spaceship and nukes the site from orbit.* It was the only way to be sure.

[shootemindehead]

On a serious note...never mind teaching aliens what war is all about. We'd first need to educate a lot of people on planet Earth what war is really about. The more people I talk to about war, the more obvious it is that most people haven't the first clue about it.

[bassman]

Forget war. I would just be trying to get some of that Arcturian Poon Tang. Male or female.....it don't matter when it's Arcturian, baby! But seriously....I would tell them. Now that contact between the two species has been established, they would find out eventually anyway. Better to tell them than to show them, ya know?