Room 237 - New documentary about the shining/ how Kubrick is a goddamn wizard

[Danny]

Just watched it, utter bollocks. Take it from a film grad this is just the most basic first semester style ramblings you would hear from every film student who reads whatever the hell they want into any work of cinema. I'm not saying Kubrick didn't have some subliminal message independent of kings own in the shining. he very clearly did have something to say about the native americans at least. But some of this stuff they dream up is beyond wishful thinking. Watch this as a comedy like ancient aliens, not a serious documentary. I would rather watch this with something like spinal tap than 'to live and die in oregon' or something serious.

[MinionZombie]

Okay I've given it a watch, and here's what I had to say on the matter: http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2013/...ories-and.html There is some total bullshit in there ("Room No. 237" = "Moon Room" = "237 was the stage number where Kubrick faked the moon landings" is perhaps the most idiotic reading in the entire doc), but there is some genuinely good finds in there (the Native American issue, and the Holocaust issue are the two biggies), but there are also cool little things that I never saw before - such as when the ball rolls up to Danny as he's playing on the carpet, when the shot comes back to Danny, the carpet has reversed. What's most curious is how the very evident spatial awareness analysis of the film is barely even referenced - it's the biggest, head-fucking reveal of all relating to The Shining, and yet it's barely even glimpsed at here (two brief references and that's it!) Also - did anyone else get utterly fed-the-hell-up with that guy who not only couldn't string a coherent sentence together, but kept chuckling at everything he said, and over-used the word "like" to a degree that is nothing but tragic for the English language? I couldn't stand that guy by the end of the film!

[LouCipherr]

What's most curious is how the very evident spatial awareness analysis of the film is barely even referenced - it's the biggest, head-fucking reveal of all relating to The Shining, and yet it's barely even glimpsed at here (two brief references and that's it!) I think that's the one thing that bugged me most about this documentary. The 'spatial awareness' videos that Danny posted - those were, as you so rightfully said MZ, the biggest "WHAT THE FU*K?!?" moments I've ever had in regards to a movie. For it to be such a HUGE part of the film (one look at those videos Danny posted and you'll see it most certainly was), and for them to barely touch on it in Room 237? Boo! Hiss! Unacceptable! That being said, there are some good things contained in Room 237 that I hadn't heard touched on before, but it was a major, glaring omission to barely cover the structure/set of the Overlook.

[Danny]

From what i've read the spacial awareness guy declined and was saying how any spacial awareness stuff would be "infringing his rights", which is bollocks for fananalysis by the by, but considering his spirals off into retarded tin foil gold reserves horseshit he was certainly one to shy away from something he thought was "silly". Its like twin perfects "real silent hill experience" series. Great analysis of the series and lots of dot connecting and stuff that makes you think, but they are self assured about their theories to the point of whackjob arrogance that in the end only takes away from the credibility of the piece as a whole.

[LouCipherr]

From what i've read the spacial awareness guy declined and was saying how any spacial awareness stuff would be "infringing his rights" That is freakin' laughable. No idea where he came up with that idea, but

[MinionZombie]

That is freakin' laughable. No idea where he came up with that idea, but Aye - that is a bit weird ... but if the guy also said he didn't want to appear because of some of the silly readings that'd be examined in the movie, then that makes sense ... because there was some bullshit in that flick, alright. Remember the bit that moves in super slow motion, frame-by-frame, as the interviewee bumbles his way through a poorly voiced thought, and you think it's building to some massive reveal ... and all it is, is that at a certain frame the in/out mail tray on the manager's desk lines up with his crotch as if it was a 'massive boner' ... as if, you silly bastard. Another one that I thought was fucking stupid was the suggestion that Kubrick had had one single frame of his face airbrushed into the clouds during the opening ... first of all - no, he actually did not, as there was not a damn thing in those clouds, second of all, how often do you look into the sky with a friend and see a whole multitude of different things in the shapes of the clouds, third of all, Kubrick was a master but he wasn't an egomaniac, and fourth of all, the idea that you'd go in and essentially 'photoshop' his face into a single frame in 1980 is just moronic. I enjoyed the bit where they played it forwards and backwards at the same time, with both overlapping - it was cool to see certain things line up and have thematic symetry, but at the same time - what about all the parts of the film that don't line up whatsoever? There's nothing intentional, anything that is there is only there because you've generated the meaning by doing something to the film that was never intended, and indeed, somewhat exploiting a film that has clearly defined themes that are as strong at the beginning as they are at the end. The best thing to do with Room 237 though, was the trailer with the VCR spewing blood like the lift (elevator) - which was awesome. Again though, there was some good stuff in the flick, but there was also some utter tripe in there ... and the presentation was at times awkward, or even frustrating.

[LouCipherr]

...and all it is, is that at a certain frame the in/out mail tray on the manager's desk lines up with his crotch as if it was a 'massive boner' ... as if, you silly bastard. That was one of my first "WTF?!" moments.. Another one that I thought was fucking stupid was the suggestion that Kubrick had had one single frame of his face airbrushed into the clouds during the opening ... first of all - no, he actually did not, as there was not a damn thing in those clouds Y'know MZ, I'm damn glad I'm not the only one who didn't see that, because I couldn't for the life of me find him in the clouds. *confused* One other thing that bugged me. This whole discussion with the opening sequence (helicopter shots up the road to the hotel) about whether Kubrick "left the shadow of the helicopter in frame on purpose" - Are they kidding? I don't care how "exacting" of a director you are, and how much of a perfectionist you are - leaving a few frames with the helicopters shadow in it did not have some stupid hidden meaning behind it! It was a freakin' accident it made it into the film - or, Kubrick noticed it but didn't care. Yet somehow they go on about it for quite a few minutes, much to my confusion. Again, all these bitchings might take away from some other interesting material in there, so whoever is reading this that hasn't seen it yet should still do so and form your own opinion. I just think some of these people were really 'reaching' for things that probably weren't there in some places. Then again, some things that seemed like 'reaching' turned out to be dead-on, so who knows... We are discussing Kubrick here, and after the spatial awareness videos, I don't know what to even think about this movie anymore...

[MinionZombie]

I do think there was a bit too much emphasis placed on the wackier ideas - perhaps because they couldn't get the spatial awareness guy involved ... whatever, I think they should have cut some of the bullshit out, or at the very least edited their interviews so we didn't have to trawl through so much umming-and-ahhing, and endless use of the word "like" before the fuckers made their bloody point at long-ruddy-last. They could have then filled in the missing time with some more personal stories of viewing the movie - nothing about conspiracy theories or whatever, but just someone's experience of seeing the movie. For example, I had seen The Shining numerous times, but on Halloween night last year the longer US cut was showing (and I'd never seen that version before), and here for the first time I was watching the film with an audience (rather than just on my own), and with the surround sound, the dark room, the audience participation, it was like an entirely different experience that took a familiar movie and made it suddenly quite disturbing - I already appreciated the soundtrack, but this was the first time that the soundtrack alone caused me to feel so insecure in my cinema seat - it was absolutely dizzying, a sheer frontal assault on the senses, and combined with the general delerious nature of The Shining, it became quite an experience for me. What was even cooler was a young woman a couple of rows back who was having kittens with fear - she was really disturbed by the flick - she really enjoyed it, but she also said (after the credits had rolled) "I've never been so glad for a movie to be over!" Even just the viewing location made a difference - at home you're in your territory - but in the cinema, it felt like I was being held captive by the movie itself. Like I said, it was like seeing an entirely new movie - a wonderful cinema-going experience, and indeed my favourite cinema trip of 2012, and one of my all-time favourite cinema trips. Suffice to say, it made quite an impression. Perhaps if Room 237 had ditched some of the silliest bullshit in favour of more personal experiences, as well as including a little bit of the cultural impact of the film for context, that would have made it a little more rounded. The silly theories based on nothing but ... well, absolutely no evidence ... do detract from the solid theories which actually have numerous pieces of evidence to back them up. Also, I agree with Lou on the helicopter shadow - he'd choose the shot because of the framing, the position of the car within the shot, the landscape, and the duration of the shot ... he'd no doubt prefer that the shadow wasn't in there, but even a perfectionist can be a pragmatist. Although I'm sure if Kubrick was alive and making movies today, he'd just have such a thing removed digitally.