TWD 6x13 "The Same Boat" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[facestabber]

Also we have 4 saviors that were incinerated. The group may hypothesize that Negan was in that group of 4 returning because of the distress call. Their reasoning will probably be explained next episode. But at this point what else can they do besides assume more saviors are out there. I don't think they have leads as to where else to look.

[shootemindehead]

Shootem's hissy fits when the "Smell" thing is utilised

[Bodanki]

Lol. For what its worth i always thought the smell thing was silly too. In my mind i always just prefer to think that walkers can sense humans on sight and somehow being covered in walker goo throws that sixth sense off and makes them undetectable. I remeber same issue with a tv show i used to watch that had a vampire in it that smoked cigarettes. How in the fuck something undead that doesnt breathe can smell or inhale smoke I don't know. Never mind.

[Moon Knight]

I'm gonna be curious too if our group of survivors carry on like the job is done or will they still be looking for Negan. It's possible someone else killed that kid because the main Savior that Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham ran into said "They normally just pop one of you off right off the bat." So, to me, it's something that THE Saviors do in general; as I believe that dude was gonna shoot both Abe and Sasha before being blown to bits. Also, it's possible they were claiming to be Negan. Minor comic spoiler that pertains to this episode only.   In the comics when Rick meets the Saviors on the road for the first time, the main talker also stated they are all Negan.

[Trin]

Carol and Maggie were privy to the radio discussions between the Saviors. They know how prepared the Saviors were to retreat, call for help, change frequences when radios were compromised and wait for reinforcement. So they know that there are more Saviors out there and that the Saviors are intelligent, prepared, tactical, organized, etc. So let's just say that Abe's ass... and the ass of the entire group... should be itching like mad. They should be taking a collective gasp right now and wondering just how deep the shi-ite is that they've dove into head-first without looking. I understand that the writers are building up a "pride before the fall" theme, and to an extent I can see the rationale behind it, but I consider it pure plot contrivance that the group has gone into this so blindly. It's forgivable because the episodes are pretty good, but the group has enough information now that they cannot justify further blind arrogance. In spite of these episodes being decent enough, ultimately I'm with Shootme... the season is not great. I'm only partly invested and mostly because of these exact situations. The characters make sketchy, WTF-inducing decisions amidst storylines driven by plot contrivance. It just loses me. I end up watching as a spectator rather than as fully invested. These last two episodes are prime examples. The plan was awful and ignored both the group's strengths (recon resources Daryl and Aaron) and common sense (assess the situation, gather information, etc). The execution was implausible in that we had multiple cluster-f*&k fire-fights with no friendly casualties. The two people who had the best chance of noticing someone approaching got captured because they were having an ill-timed, implausible argument. And I *still* think they would've noticed the approach. The episodes weren't *bad*. They were decent and fun to watch. There was good character development and the plot progression was interesting in itself. And the "throw-away" characters were extremely well cast and acted. But when TWD fires on all cylinders it is far far better. Carol's actions in this episode are a good example. When Carol portrays herself as meek and helpless the viewers see what she's doing and why, and it comes off as a great idea. It might actually be BETTER than what we'd think of on our own, and it's exactly what we expect from her character. It resonates because the plot, character motivation, and action are all aligned, and it turns out very satisfying.

[Bodanki]

Carol and Maggie were privy to the radio discussions between the Saviors. They know how prepared the Saviors were to retreat, call for help, change frequences when radios were compromised and wait for reinforcement. So they know that there are more Saviors out there and that the Saviors are intelligent, prepared, tactical, organized, etc. So let's just say that Abe's ass... and the ass of the entire group... should be itching like mad. They should be taking a collective gasp right now and wondering just how deep the shi-ite is that they've dove into head-first without looking. I understand that the writers are building up a "pride before the fall" theme, and to an extent I can see the rationale behind it, but I consider it pure plot contrivance that the group has gone into this so blindly. It's forgivable because the episodes are pretty good, but the group has enough information now that they cannot justify further blind arrogance. In spite of these episodes being decent enough, ultimately I'm with Shootme... the season is not great. I'm only partly invested and mostly because of these exact situations. The characters make sketchy, WTF-inducing decisions amidst storylines driven by plot contrivance. It just loses me. I end up watching as a spectator rather than as fully invested. These last two episodes are prime examples. The plan was awful and ignored both the group's strengths (recon resources Daryl and Aaron) and common sense (assess the situation, gather information, etc). The execution was implausible in that we had multiple cluster-f*&k fire-fights with no friendly casualties. The two people who had the best chance of noticing someone approaching got captured because they were having an ill-timed, implausible argument. And I *still* think they would've noticed the approach. The episodes weren't *bad*. They were decent and fun to watch. There was good character development and the plot progression was interesting in itself. And the "throw-away" characters were extremely well cast and acted. But when TWD fires on all cylinders it is far far better. Carol's actions in this episode are a good example. When Carol portrays herself as meek and helpless the viewers see what she's doing and why, and it comes off as a great idea. It might actually be BETTER than what we'd think of on our own, and it's exactly what we expect from her character. It resonates because the plot, character motivation, and action are all aligned, and it turns out very satisfying. That was my initial reaction when it happened. They should have done recon. BUT the deal with Gregory was that they killed Negans men THAT night! They had a deadline because they needed to rescue that guy from Hilltop (Craig) before the end of that day or he was gonna be killed. I guess they threw that into the plot because they wanted Ricks team to storm in blind due to a time constraint, otherwise I am sure they would have done recon.

[Moon Knight]

The plan was rushed because it had to be done as soon as possible. They needed Gregory's head for an easy way in so they could get back Ethan's brother. I can see people's concern as to the sloppy approach but that's why I love TWD so much. Rick isn't a super hero, niether is Daryl, they are bound to make mistakes. The fact that they aren't perfect and make more bad calls than they should makes them so much more interesting to me; especially Rick. Daryl does need to be toned down a bit though haha. I still find it clever how Carol purposely left those marks so Daryl could track them. But yeah, lots of holes in that plan but I find it acceptable.

[Bodanki]

The question then becomes, if Gregory was towing the line and giving The Saviours their weekly tribute or whatever, why did they want him dead? Why all of a sudden did Negan decide he had to go? A little bit confused about that to be honest.

[MinionZombie]

The plan was rushed because it had to be done as soon as possible. They needed Gregory's head for an easy way in so they could get back Ethan's brother. I can see people's concern as to the sloppy approach but that's why I love TWD so much. Rick isn't a super hero, niether is Daryl, they are bound to make mistakes. The fact that they aren't perfect and make more bad calls than they should makes them so much more interesting to me; especially Rick. Daryl does need to be toned down a bit though haha. I still find it clever how Carol purposely left those marks so Daryl could track them. But yeah, lots of holes in that plan but I find it acceptable. Agreed. Any of us would make just as many mistakes - or likely more - in a zombie apocalypse. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and being able to pick over a decision in minute detail from the comfort of our forum bears no resemblance to those characters in that situation right at that moment. All things considered the decision makes sense in that context - and Team Rick are used to improvising and having to react on the spot to a fubar situation. The question then becomes, if Gregory was towing the line and giving The Saviours their weekly tribute or whatever, why did they want him dead? Why all of a sudden did Negan decide he had to go? A little bit confused about that to be honest. I guess we'll find out more about that soon. Perhaps to weaken the Hilltoppers even more? Perhaps as part of a wider power play - might the Saviours be interested in just taking over the Hilltop and assuming full power there? We haven't seen the Saviour's main gaff yet, so maybe they're interested in a more plush setting to park their bums? There might be an issue with their deliveries - have they missed any, have they been 'light' etc? If so, then taking out Gregory would be the Saviour's equivalent of a slap on the wrist for them all to buck up their ideas.

[facestabber]

Agreed. Any of us would make just as many mistakes - or likely more - in a zombie apocalypse. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and being able to pick over a decision in minute detail from the comfort of our forum bears no resemblance to those characters in that situation right at that moment. All things considered the decision makes sense in that context - and Team Rick are used to improvising and having to react on the spot to a fubar situation. I guess we'll find out more about that soon. Perhaps to weaken the Hilltoppers even more? Perhaps as part of a wider power play - might the Saviours be interested in just taking over the Hilltop and assuming full power there? We haven't seen the Saviour's main gaff yet, so maybe they're interested in a more plush setting to park their bums? There might be an issue with their deliveries - have they missed any, have they been 'light' etc? If so, then taking out Gregory would be the Saviour's equivalent of a slap on the wrist for them all to buck up their ideas. Lets simplify this and just Gregory's death was ordered because he is an arrogant prick.

[MinionZombie]

Lets simplify this and just Gregory's death was ordered because he is an arrogant prick. Yeah, Gregory's an arse (but well played by Xander Berkeley). Reason enough right there.

[Moon Knight]

The question then becomes, if Gregory was towing the line and giving The Saviours their weekly tribute or whatever, why did they want him dead? Why all of a sudden did Negan decide he had to go? A little bit confused about that to be honest. That's easy; Ethan says that Negan "claims" the Hilltop's offering was a little light. So why does Negan hold Ethan's brother in exchange for Gregory's head? Well, it all boils down to Negan wanting to give the Hilltop a bit of motivation so the next time the goods ain't as "light" and most importantly, Negan is just a sick f*ck and more of an asshole than Gregory. I assume Negan just enjoys messing with people and gets off on manipulating weak survivors for his enjoyment. He's the ultimate bully.

[facestabber]

That's easy; Ethan says that Negan "claims" the Hilltop's offering was a little light. So why does Negan hold Ethan's brother in exchange for Gregory's head? Well, it all boils down to Negan wanting to give the Hilltop a bit of motivation so the next time the goods ain't as "light" and most importantly, Negan is just a sick f*ck and more of an asshole than Gregory. I assume Negan just enjoys messing with people and gets off on manipulating weak survivors for his enjoyment. He's the ultimate bully. Isnt Negan a used car salesman? And now has power, a god complex and no law and order. Bully is right

[kidgloves]

With reference to the finale/comic spoilers   As mentioned, it needs to be a season 1 character. I think it's going to be Morgan because we know AMC likes to cut costs and he can't come cheap so he is most likely IMHO. I'll be satisfied if it's Glen, Maggie, Carol or preferably Darryl. Anyone else will be a copout. Abraham has to go in the coming episodes as well like the comics

[Moon Knight]

With reference to the finale/comic spoilers   As mentioned, it needs to be a season 1 character. I think it's going to be Morgan because we know AMC likes to cut costs and he can't come cheap so he is most likely IMHO. I'll be satisfied if it's Glen, Maggie, Carol or preferably Darryl. Anyone else will be a copout. Abraham has to go in the coming episodes as well like the comics   Im gonna go ahead and say that I believe Morgan is safe. I'm pretty sure he's leaving the group. If you notice the promotional "A Larger World" poster, all of the imagery was taking from actual episodes themselves; Walker Deanna, Carol's rosery, the Satalites from The Saviors outpost, the holding hands from "No Way Out", however, we have yet to see Morgan on horseback yet and I'm gonna assume he will probably end up in The Kingdom. It's definitely a season 1 cast member. Also, a while back Kirkman always said he regretted killing off Abraham just for shocks. I think it's either gonna be Tara or Heath.