If we'd been following Negan from episode one, he'd be the hero and Rick the villain.

[DevilDog]

He isn't doing anything the supposed heros haven't.

[facestabber]

Granted we need to see more of Negan, but I would still disagree completely. Rick doesn't have his followers kneel to him as if he is some Messiah. And most importantly I do not see Rick taking pleasure and grandstanding while he tortures people. Negans first two hits to Glenn, then allowing him and his family suffer while Negan continues his mockery is a stark difference. Any parallels are at the surface imo. The content of character are completely different at this stage.

[DevilDog]

Granted we need to see more of Negan, but I would still disagree completely. Rick doesn't have his followers kneel to him as if he is some Messiah. And most importantly I do not see Rick taking pleasure and grandstanding while he tortures people. Negans first two hits to Glenn, then allowing him and his family suffer while Negan continues his mockery is a stark difference. Any parallels are at the surface imo. The content of character are completely different at this stage. Without breaking down every single instance: By my count, Rick has straight up murdered around 8 people. Starting with the ambush/murder of Shane. Rick and Co outright take over every single group they run into. Demanding power. How are they any different than Negan and the Saviors? Or the Governor? Or, aside from being cannibals, Terminus?

[JDP]

Without breaking down every single instance: By my count, Rick has straight up murdered around 8 people. Starting with the ambush/murder of Shane. Rick and Co outright take over every single group they run into. Demanding power. How are they any different than Negan and the Saviors? Or the Governor? Or, aside from being cannibals, Terminus? The difference is that Rick & company have acted in such violent ways only in self-defense, they do not go around terrorizing or murdering people just for the heck of it. They also do not force other groups to give them half of what they have in exchange for a "protection" they do not really need. Rick & co. just trade/barter with other groups. They are fair people. Negan is basically a mafia boss transplanted into a zombie apocalypse pushing his extortion/protection racket on other survivors. And the Governor was actually worse than Negan, let alone than Rick. The Governor was insane. Negan is in fact more interested in exploiting other groups than in killing them, he has made that very clear. He only kills to get his point across to people who do not readily submit to his plans, or as retaliation when someone has caused him trouble. The Governor was a mentally unstable paranoid maniac who enjoyed tormenting and murdering people, even those who never really did anything to him, just for the heck of it. The Terminus folks were cannibals, as you point out. Do we really need any other reason to see why Rick & co. are way better than them??? If I was a survivor in an apocalyptic scenario and you gave me the choice between encountering the Terminus folks or Rick's group, I will chose the second any day. You can reason with Rick & co. The Terminus folks were cruel cannibals who would not listen to reason. To them you were just cattle.

[Neil]

He isn't doing anything the supposed heros haven't. Interesting... I don't quite think we'd see Rick threaten someone so they chopped off their son's arm etc... But I get your point. I do want a Negan flashhback episode!

[shootemindehead]

Team Rick also isn't carrying out protection rackets with other survivor groups either. While members of of Rick's band have done questionable things, there's no real comparison at all. EDIT: What JDP said.

[DevilDog]

Team Rick also isn't carrying out protection rackets with other survivor groups either. While members of of Rick's band have done questionable things, there's no real comparison at all. EDIT: What JDP said. Forgive me, but are we watching the same show? Rick is absolutely trying to cut into the protection racket that the Saviors have going on with Hilltop. Saviors to Hilltop: Provide us with supplies and we will keep the dead off you. Alexandria to Hilltop: Provide us with supplies and we will keep the dead off you. - - - Updated - - - Interesting... I don't quite think we'd see Rick threaten someone so they chopped off their son's arm etc... But I get your point. I do want a Negan flashhback episode! Correct. Rick hasn't threatened to chop off any limbs. However, has has outright murdered (Shane) and used his subordinates (Maggie) to take over Alexandria for example. But he's supposed to be the good guy. - - - Updated - - - The difference is that Rick & company have acted in such violent ways only in self-defense, they do not go around terrorizing or murdering people just for the heck of it. They also do not force other groups to give them half of what they have in exchange for a "protection" they do not really need. Rick & co. just trade/barter with other groups. They are fair people. Negan is basically a mafia boss transplanted into a zombie apocalypse pushing his extortion/protection racket on other survivors. And the Governor was actually worse than Negan, let alone than Rick. The Governor was insane. Negan is in fact more interested in exploiting other groups than in killing them, he has made that very clear. He only kills to get his point across to people who do not readily submit to his plans, or as retaliation when someone has caused him trouble. The Governor was a mentally unstable paranoid maniac who enjoyed tormenting and murdering people, even those who never really did anything to him, just for the heck of it. The Terminus folks were cannibals, as you point out. Do we really need any other reason to see why Rick & co. are way better than them??? If I was a survivor in an apocalyptic scenario and you gave me the choice between encountering the Terminus folks or Rick's group, I will chose the second any day. You can reason with Rick & co. The Terminus folks were cruel cannibals who would not listen to reason. To them you were just cattle. Again....the Saviors provided Hilltop protection in exchange for supplies. This is literally the same demand Rick and company are offering. How was the Governor insane? He kept heads in a collection? Ummm...Herschel had an entire barn full of walkers he wanted to "heal". But, he was a "good guy", so we just ignore that? Sorry mate, I'm not buying it. My point stands. Negan hasn't done anything Rick and company haven't done, twofold. As for current events...let's not forget....it was Rick and Alexandria that started killing Saviors. Not the other way around.

[shootemindehead]

Forgive me, but are we watching the same show? Rick is absolutely trying to cut into the protection racket that the Saviors have going on with Hilltop. Saviors to Hilltop: Provide us with supplies and we will keep the dead off you. Alexandria to Hilltop: Provide us with supplies and we will keep the dead off you. Not only am I watching the show, I'm reading the comics too. Rick's deal has a certain symbiosis to it. There's an exchange that's voluntarily entered into. Negan's deal comes at the end of a bat. So, a more accurate account is: Alexandria to Hilltop: Provide us with supplies and we will keep the dead off you. Saviors to Hilltop: Provide us with supplies and we will keep the dead off you and if you don't Lucille will be kissing you on the head.

[JDP]

Correct. Rick hasn't threatened to chop off any limbs. However, has has outright murdered (Shane) In self-defense! Shane gave him no choice. and used his subordinates (Maggie) to take over Alexandria for example. As a FAVOR to the Alexandrians, really. They had a rather naive view of how things should be run. Rick and his group had more experience so they knew they could do a better job at keeping the place safe. Notice that once they took over Alexandria -with Deanna's consent- the security of the place improved. But he's supposed to be the good guy. But he is! Compared to most of the other groups we've seen, Rick and co. are nice people. Again....the Saviors provided Hilltop protection in exchange for supplies. This is literally the same demand Rick and company are offering. But the Saviors IMPOSED their protection/extortion racket on them, the Hilltoppers did NOT need it or want it! The Alexandrians, on the other hand, offered their services (viz. wiping out the Savior oppressors) in exchange for supplies, with the FULL CONSENT of the Hilltoppers. There is a clear difference here. The Hilltoppers WANTED Alexandria's help. They DID NOT want the Saviors' so-called help. How was the Governor insane? He kept heads in a collection? Ummm...Herschel had an entire barn full of walkers he wanted to "heal". But, he was a "good guy", so we just ignore that? Sorry mate, I'm not buying it. The zombified heads the Governor kept in the tanks were of the people he murdered! Do we really need any more signs of his insanity and cruelty? Hershel, on the other hand, was acting on good intentions. Due to his isolation, he did not know any better regarding the zombies. He thought that medicine one day would be able to "cure" these people, so he did not want them killed. He did not realize that they were already technically "dead". It was only after Shane went ballistic and proved to him that those people were not just "sick" but dangerous walking cannibal corpses that he fully realized the situation. My point stands. Negan hasn't done anything Rick and company haven't done, twofold. As for current events...let's not forget....it was Rick and Alexandria that started killing Saviors. Not the other way around. Rick and company have not imposed anything on anyone. They have also not killed anyone except in self-defense or as retaliation for something bad done to them first. They are a fair and reasonable people. And it was the Saviors who first started messing with the Alexandrians, not the other way around. If it had not been for Daryl's timely intervention with the RPG, those Savior bikers that were blocking the road back to Alexandria would have killed Abraham and Sasha in cold blood just for asking questions! So yes, Negan and his group have done plenty of bad things that Rick and his group have not done.

[Neil]

Correct. Rick hasn't threatened to chop off any limbs. However, has has outright murdered (Shane) and used his subordinates (Maggie) to take over Alexandria for example. But he's supposed to be the good guy. Rick realised had he not done these things (eg: taken over Alexandria) they probably would have fallen... ie: The Alexandrian's most likely wouldn't have survived... Do you tyhink Negan is in any doubt Team Risk can't survive in the outside world? Or do you think he simply wants to force yet more individuals to do his bidding?

[facestabber]

Without breaking down every single instance: By my count, Rick has straight up murdered around 8 people. Starting with the ambush/murder of Shane. Rick and Co outright take over every single group they run into. Demanding power. How are they any different than Negan and the Saviors? Or the Governor? Or, aside from being cannibals, Terminus? With this accusation I believe every instance should be broken down. But if Shanes death is considered to be "ambush/murder in cold blood" to you then this conversation will just be circles.

[babomb]

With this accusation I believe every instance should be broken down. But if Shanes death is considered to be "ambush/murder in cold blood" to you then this conversation will just be circles. Yep!! I don't see how any of this is even up for debate. By this logic, if someone tried to kill me and I killed them first, that would make me a cold blooded murderer equal to the person who tried to kill me. That just doesn't stand to reason. It ignores the circumstance of the situation. Shane was the one who tried to ambush Rick. Rick just let it happen in order to put an end to the situation. It wasn't the way Rick wanted it, Shane chose that.