TWD 7x02 "The Well" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[facestabber]

Indeed. It's very easy, having not experienced the things Carol has experienced - nor living for a single second in a zombie apocalypse ourselves (from a position of 20/20 hindsight analysis, sensory disconnection, and objectivity) - to say "oh, buck up, kiddo". Carol's had to do things that none of the others have had to do (or see). The Lizzie situation alone is messed up in the extreme - Carol had to witness her failure to sort Lizzie out (but the kid was rotten, so it wasn't Carol's fault - but she doesn't see it that was, especially not as she was considering Lizzie (and Micah, too) a surrogate daughter). She comes back and finds Lizzie's slaughtered her sister, and then Carol has to execute a living, breathing, human child! That's pretty messed up - even more so for a mother, I'd assume. Carol has also lost her daughter, who was no doubt extremely close to her because of their pre-apocalypse life. Carol was probably very contained in her home and Sophia was likely her one source of joy in the world - and then she loses her, searches for her, and then sees her zombified corpse staggering out of the barn ... and then put down. Again, that's pretty messed up. Then there's the Karen & David situation. She was trying to do the right thing - but she did murder living humans - and there might have been a chance for one or both of them to survive as there was a remedy (although, to be honest, K&D would have likely died as they got it early). She's lived out there in the apocalypse, she's been exiled and then brought back into the fold, she's had to kill to survive ... that's a heavy load to put on anyone, and everyone's going to have a different breaking point. By contrast, Rick is a Sheriff, he did lose his wife (and suffered the mental consequences keenly), but he did regain Judith in the Season 5 premiere and has kept Carl alive through all of this (albeit not completely intact ). Rick's job will have steeled him better for the position of a leader in this world and to do the things he has done - but he's still suffered along the way, so it's not like Carol's the only one suffering ... but Carol has seen and done things that no other has seen or done (although Tyreese was present for the Lizzie situation). Add that Lizzie and Mika's dad asked Carol to protect his girls right before Carol stabbed his brain. I mis 05-01 Carol and I think so does everyone else. People want her badass again. That's why the complaints are coming. I do understand why she is fucked in the head though. We all have our breaking points.

[shootemindehead]

Dammit, Shoot, whenever I read your post I read it in Capt. Rhodes's voice haha. Oh dear...

[Moon Knight]

Carol breaking down isn't something that the writers just decided to drop in; the signs were always there. The cracks were starting once she lost Sophia and in 4x3 "Isolation", she definitely was in a moral fight with her actions after a brief discussion with Tyreese.

[shootemindehead]

Sure Moon. I just don't feel it's been done too successfully and its resolution is a bit flat. Assuming this has been resolved that is. What I mean by unsure writing, is that the writers just seem to have brain farted something for Carol at the end of S06 and they don't seem to want to see it through in S07? At least that's the way it seems after I watched the last series in preparation for this year's. In any way, we'll see how things pan out over the next few weeks.

[Moon Knight]

I understand. I agree that it does feel a tad irritating but the way I saw it was a way to get her to the Kingdom. I guess they are multiple ways to have done that with the same or more success. I hope that arc is over as well.

[Trin]

I have to say it ... I'm sick of Carol. Her screentime is just cringe-worthy at this point. Her goofy little tactic of playing the inept and simpering woman is overdone. And I don't really care about her character development. I like Ezekiel. The scene of him calling Carol on her BS was very well done. I recognize that some of Carol's annoying behavior was to setup this scene, and Carol was good in this scene, but I think they could have set it up more effectively. On the whole the scene was worth it though. And I agree with all previous posters that clearing up his backstory early made a great deal of sense. Had they not it would've prompted some serious WTF issues. I also liked Morgan in this episode. I like his self-reflection and I like how he handles himself. I was dismayed to find that Ezekiel and group was under the thumb of the Saviors. I knew the character was going to be introduced from the buzz around here, but I had somehow convinced myself that he and his group would be a stronger force, capable of tipping the balance between Team Rick and the Saviors. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a better storyline the way it is. I like the character a lot how they portrayed him. And the situation it portrayed was depressing and bleak, setting good mood for the story. Regarding feeding the pigs walkers before turning them over to the Saviors - I have to think this is just being pragmatic that the pigs don't consume group resources, with a bit of nose-thumbing at the Saviors (like a waiter spitting in the food of a rude customer). I don't think they are trying to make the Saviors sick. If we concede that animals will eat walkers (something I find hard to stomach - hahaha) then we have to concede that animals have no ill effects from doing so, and furthermore that humans who then eat those animals also have no ill effects. Walkers would be the most prevalent food source around and you have to expect that a vast percent of the animal population (bird, squirrel, rabbit, etc.) that the group has caught and eaten has previously fed off of a walker at some point. To contend that people get ill after eating animals that consumed walkers raises too many questions. So, not a bad episode at all. I enjoyed it.

[JDP]

Regarding feeding the pigs walkers before turning them over to the Saviors - I have to think this is just being pragmatic that the pigs don't consume group resources, with a bit of nose-thumbing at the Saviors (like a waiter spitting in the food of a rude customer). I don't think they are trying to make the Saviors sick. If we concede that animals will eat walkers (something I find hard to stomach - hahaha) then we have to concede that animals have no ill effects from doing so, and furthermore that humans who then eat those animals also have no ill effects. Walkers would be the most prevalent food source around and you have to expect that a vast percent of the animal population (bird, squirrel, rabbit, etc.) that the group has caught and eaten has previously fed off of a walker at some point. To contend that people get ill after eating animals that consumed walkers raises too many questions. Since nobody knows exactly why the whole zombie thing is happening but whatever it is seems to be contagious, eating something that you know has been in such "intimate" contact with zombies as digesting their infected flesh is a HUGE risk that most people would not willingly want to take. Simply assuming that because pigs seem willing to eat zombies it means the pigs themselves will not get some disease/infection is not a safe approach. If the pigs are hungry they will eat almost anything (they even resort to cannibalism), and they are not doctors, they won't know whether the zombies they eat are going to introduce a disease/infection in their system. As for the intentions of the Kingdomers when they feed zombies to the pigs, I think it goes beyond just a "prank" or practicality. If they did not hate the Saviors and this was just another friendly group they were bartering with, I suspect they would not feed zombies to the pigs reserved for trading. The possibility of spreading infection and disease on the other group is one possible outcome that must have occurred to them. It is not something you would risk doing to your own people or friends.