TWD 8x05 "The Big Scary U" episode discussion... **SPOILERS*

[MinionZombie]

This did this same “confession” scene in the comic and still released a proper backstory. They gave us hints this past episode but there is still lots of interesting character development that hasn’t been fully revealed yet. Also, the way they are spreading this one day across a single half season tells me they would definitely fill out a season with a single Negan backstory episode. Fair points. Hmmm... *scratches chin* As always, I guess, time will tell.

[Moon Knight]

Fair points. Hmmm... *scratches chin* As always, I guess, time will tell. I believe you were asking who the person was that was watching Rick at the end? That should be a heapster. Definitely looked like a watch out for Jadis. A very interesting theory about Simon “backsliding” I watched online. No spoilers but I know some don’t like reading theory’s in case they come true.   When the Oceanside claimed that Negan killed all the boys and men, the belief is that it was Simon that murdererd everyone and not Negan himself. Considering Simon’s remark about taking a flyer this past episode and murdeing everyone in the Hilltop, makes sense he would do something like that. Negan’s response further strengthens that theory. I always thought that Oceanside story didn’t really fit into Negan’s character, he wouldn’t just mass kill like that; that never sat right with me and I hope this is the case! Makes sense.

[MinionZombie]

A very interesting theory about Simon “backsliding” I watched online. No spoilers but I know some don’t like reading theory’s in case they come true.   When the Oceanside claimed that Negan killed all the boys and men, the belief is that it was Simon that murdererd everyone and not Negan himself. Considering Simon’s remark about taking a flyer this past episode and murdeing everyone in the Hilltop, makes sense he would do something like that. Negan’s response further strengthens that theory. I always thought that Oceanside story didn’t really fit into Negan’s character, he wouldn’t just mass kill like that; that never sat right with me and I hope this is the case! Makes sense. Ooh!!! That's a great theory! I hope that's the case. Your comments regarding it make total sense, too, and I agree   something always felt a bit 'off' about the 'kill all the men' aspect of Oceanside. Considering that "we're all Negan", then Oceanside could easily be talking about a different man ... I can't recall if they ever namechecked "Negan" or just the Saviours generally, though, but either way it's entirely possible that it was Simon in charge of that operation. With Simon's "thick & veiny" proposal as well as Negan's clear statement of people being a valuable resource, this theory makes total sense! I hope something like this comes into play. Might we see a flashback or the 'backsliding' event? Sometimes it'd be nice to get a 'cold open flashback' before the opening credits roll, you know? Just a glimpse of something, not a whole episode, but just a taste of past events - the fallout from which is then felt during the rest of the episode. As for the lookout being a Heapster - makes sense. I think they're back next week. Hopefully they won't be as irritating as they were in Season 7B (episode nine or ten, IIRC, with all that "up up up" bullshit.)

[Moon Knight]

Ooh!!! That's a great theory! I hope that's the case. Your comments regarding it make total sense, too, and I agree   something always felt a bit 'off' about the 'kill all the men' aspect of Oceanside. Considering that "we're all Negan", then Oceanside could easily be talking about a different man ... I can't recall if they ever namechecked "Negan" or just the Saviours generally, though, but either way it's entirely possible that it was Simon in charge of that operation. With Simon's "thick & veiny" proposal as well as Negan's clear statement of people being a valuable resource, this theory makes total sense! I hope something like this comes into play. Might we see a flashback or the 'backsliding' event? Sometimes it'd be nice to get a 'cold open flashback' before the opening credits roll, you know? Just a glimpse of something, not a whole episode, but just a taste of past events - the fallout from which is then felt during the rest of the episode. As for the lookout being a Heapster - makes sense. I think they're back next week. Hopefully they won't be as irritating as they were in Season 7B (episode nine or ten, IIRC, with all that "up up up" bullshit.)   Yeah, man, I agree. A cold open would be great. The Saviors all being Negan will give a good reason for the Oceanside not knowing who Negan truly is. The Hilltop was working for Negan for a while too and Jesus didn’t even know who Negan really was. I’m not a fan of that group either but I must admit, I kinda dig Jadis.

[shootemindehead]

One of the better episodes no doubt. Putting some meat on the bones of a few characters. We need more episodes like this. So Negan couldn't put his wife down and used to work with kids (or so he says). He's still a complete sociopath that needs to be put down himself. However, as the episode clearly showed, simply whacking him will lead to more antagonism from the "workers" who live under the Saviours "protection". It's a more delicate matter. I know what goes down for Negan in the comic and I think that the show will go that way too. But, I expect the journey to be a little different. I still hate that fucking zombie guts "get outta jail card", though. The Saviours meeting is mulling over how to get some people past the horde to get help from the outposts and in the next scene Negan and Gabe start wiping magic zombie shit all over them and walk straight through. Just dumb.

[Moon Knight]

Man, I hate that zombie gut trick too. No bueno.

[MinionZombie]

...and in the next scene Negan and Gabe start wiping magic zombie shit all over them and walk straight through. Just dumb. It didn't go according to plan though, did it? They got spotted by the walkers and attacked. Also, the thing that Gabriel mentioned about the putrid smell and sheer awfulness of what they were doing (simply: how utterly repulsive it was) was a good way of suggesting why they don't just do it all the time. Would you want to be covered in rotting flesh and zombie turds - which could seriously harm your constitution - if you didn't have to be? We saw in 1x02 how gross it was (Glenn vomited), but I would have liked a bit more of that in future uses of it. Thankfully TWD is far more rare in its use of this mechanic - the same cannot be said of FTWD where Nick is constantly slathering that shit all over himself with barely the blink of an eye! It's a conceit that has some problems, but other conceits in the franchise have their issues too. It can't be perfect, unfortunately, there's always going to be a logic hole somewhere in anything you come up with.

[shootemindehead]

It didn't go according to plan though, did it? They got spotted by the walkers and attached. Sure. But the point is that at the meeting, the group are at an impasse, even suggesting that they sacrifice some "workers" in an effort to get people through to the outposts! With Eugene saying how that would fail. Yet, in the next scene - zombie gut magic... Terrible stuff altogether. Just a real lack of foresight and a really poor device that should have been quietly dropped a long time ago. It's a dreadful mechanic that simply wasn't smoke tested and I know I go on about all the time here, but it doesn't half bug the arse off of me. It basically rendered a good "debate" scene for this episode into a farce in one fell swoop. Thankfully TWD is far more rare in its use of this mechanic - the same cannot be said of FTWD where Nick is constantly slathering that shit all over himself with barely the blink of an eye! It's a conceit that has some problems, but other conceits in the franchise have their issues too. It can't be perfect, unfortunately, there's always going to be a logic hole somewhere in anything you come up with. It's one of the reasons why I don't watch 'Fear the Walking Dead' any more. When you introduce something like that to a long running story, you need to stop and think about the impact it's going to have in possible future scenarios, where your characters are facing a desperate situation. If you have a "get outta jail" card work like that once, then you HAVE to have all of the time, otherwise people will, quite rightly, call your story out on it. Kirkman never did this and neither did the producers of the shows. Sure, it's disgusting (I've smelt rotting flesh up close - it ain't pretty). But it's been shown to work in previous episodes with no side effects (Although maybe Gabe's fever is going to alter that). So in order to avoid being zombie nosh, people would be readily doing it all of the time to get out of tight situations, without mulling over other options. They'd easily risk nausea, sickness, disgust every single time, as opposed to being dinner just the once. But, aside from that, it's just dumb. The idea that a rotting zombie, that doesn't even breathe, can "smell" a human (which is the inference, although this hasn't been fully established) is something so thick, it's like a 5 year old's idea.