What ever happened to Millitary for criminals?

[tju1973]

from working in the correctional system and from the school i am curently taking i have seen first hand that prison only helps a small handfull of cons reabilitate. most of them are more hardend and street wise when they get out then before they went in, so i would be all for non-violent criminals having the option of prision or millitary. Prison as a tool to rehabilitate is a joke-- I am for letting a portion into the military-- as long as the crimes weren't too violent or morally reprehensible. Maybe let them in to due some crap work -- permanent working parties, doing the menial tasks most militaries get stuck doing-- put them on subsitance pay for at least 2 years and at a rank that would be considered lower than a recruit (ie a new penal rank P1 through P3)-- if they do honorable service during those two years, let them get a meaningful job and put them on normal pay-- but start them at E-1 at that time-- May work-- may not---

[Eyebiter]

This was popular in the Vietnam era and before, the idea that the military conscripts could be used to recondition young offenders. Witness the sorry state of the US military during the 1970's, with all the drug and morale problems. Things turned around in the 1980's with the draw down of American conventional forces. With a shrinking army came increased standards, many marginal recruits were rejected because a smaller pool of applicants was required to meet manpower goals. The military could raise the ASVAB scores, mandate a high school diploma, no tattoos, and bar those convicted of certain crimes. Fast forward to today. With the war on terror the requirements have been relaxed again. Now you can have up to 5 tattoos, can have a history of gang activity, and many crimes can be waived to make recruiting goals. It's my understanding the US Army is easier to get in than the Marines. But both groups have seen a decline in the quality of the recruits since 2001. While a few quality troops will volunteer to enlist during times of war, often it's the young urban poor and people from rural areas without much opportunity that fill our ranks.

[MinionZombie]

Perzactly, violent criminals most definitely need locking up, but other crimes I'd say yeah - military would be a good idea, provides an alternative, aleviates the strain on the prison service, boosts the military in times of need, and particularly "white collar criminals" will be made to do something a bit more manly rather than skimming percentages ... and I think I'd rather do a stint in the military than go to the Ass-Pound-Palace. Mind you, I'm not looking to be a criminal!

[Wooley]

What's wrong with it? Do they really want to change? Or are they just using a this as a way to stay out of prision? If they are just using it as a way to stay of of prision, then you've got people who are not motivated to be all they can be, but to do just enough not to get discharged. That means that you and the rest of the guys in your unit who did volunteer must now pick up the punk's slack. Not someone you want to have watching your back in a firefight. Plus, do we really want to take criminally minded people and teach them marksmanship, unarmed combat, team tactics, and the ability to lead others and formulate a plan, and give them a chance to hone these skills in a combat enviroment, so that when they return home, and rejoin the thug life, they bring these skills with them? Some criminals would change, others will take it as a way out, and depress the overall quality of the units they are in, making that unit much less combat effective. That is the purpose of the Armed Forces-combat, not teaching job skills, or ironing out a young punk's crap life, or any of that other touchy feely BS. Anything that subtracts or interferes with that mission of combat must not be allowed to exist.

[MinionZombie]

That's why those proven to be deceptive/untrustworthy and especially violent criminals wouldn't get the choice. Military service should be a choice for people who are just unmotivated in general life (but just need a kick up the arse, boot camp style) or for "white collar criminals" and generally low-grade criminals. We could certainly do with it now in the UK, not enough soldiers, too many prisoners, not enough prisons...and it's a sorry state. Perhaps separate units could be created out of those on a prison-military stint of service, so they're not out there with those who volunteered?

[Wooley]

That's why those proven to be deceptive/untrustworthy and especially violent criminals wouldn't get the choice. Military service should be a choice for people who are just unmotivated in general life (but just need a kick up the arse, boot camp style) or for "white collar criminals" and generally low-grade criminals. Perhaps separate units could be created out of those on a prison-military stint of service, so they're not out there with those who volunteered? Well, in that case, when the nuts and slackers are weeded out from those who really want to change, and are placed in segregated units away from volunteers with no records would certainly be an idea.

[Exatreides]

wow, a topic i might know a thing or two about. Well, I joined the Army national guard back in August. The minimum ASVAB score to join is a 31 (However, you can only be infantry and supply clerk with this score). And you can get a waiver if you score from 15 up. These are really rather difficult to get however, and recruiters are only given around 3 every 6 months. Tats? You can have a unlimted number of them as long as they have no hate symbols, gang related symbols. They can not be above the coller bone on the neck, or below the wrist. That way if you wear a class A uniform they can not see them. Actully have my ACU's on still from drill this weekend hehe. Well, with a War in Iraq, Afghanstan and around the world with seemingly no end in sight, the traditional TV based, radio, magazine based recruiting systems don't really work very well. Thats why the people that REALLY want to join, and that REALLY want in, should be allowed if their previous history is not that bad. In 2003, The national Guard had its lowest yearly recruting and retention goal in nearly 40 years. Thats why they stopped pushing TV ads like the Reserve and Active army. Thats why they started a program with dockupak, every time a soldier talks to one of his friends, or brings in a recruit who is sucessfully brought into the military they make $2,000. Not only do they make money, but they can go up to E-3 in Rank. Actully, thats how I became a PFC . So honestly, who gives a **** if people have Tats, a low ASVAB score (Supply Clerk, Infantry), or a couple pok marks on a criminal record. When guardsmen are seeing there 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th deployments to Iraq what do you want? Either, A. Do nothing and let the system keep working. B. Bring Back the Draft C. End the War (C's a good one to!)

[MinionZombie]

I certainly don't believe in a draft, in this day and age there's no need for one, and it should always be about choice. If you choose to join the army then fine, but these days there's no need for conscription, especially as war these days is nowhere near as clear cut as the two World Wars.

[MaximusIncredulous]

...its win win for everyone... Not quite if they're released on the streets with PTSD.