Smoking ban?

[MinionZombie]

or have..."smoking night".......every friday. thats cool. Of course the problem with that is all the furniture and so on in the bar will get fugged out, so it'll just stink of stale old fag smoke everytime you sit down afterwards. As for the 'losing business' type thing, I think that's a load of bollocks, pubs are specifically for drinking and it's been shown that the smoking ban has had basically piss all affect on business because, after an initial dip, people come shambling back as they did previously because they're so desperate for a drink. I don't get this staggered banning of it in public here in Britain though. First it was Ireland (I think) then Scotland, then Wales and England finally hops on the bandwagon this summer right? Why stagger it? It's pointless...and what's funny is that I live about 10 minutes away from the Welsh border town of Monmouth, so I could choose either right now...I duno if anyone's bothered to leave Monmouth to drink in a smokers pub or not, it'd be daft, because you'd still have to drive afterwards.

[_liam_]

bar owners should decide, or there should be the option to install cordoned off smoking areas. it's too nanny state. if you wanna take the "it endangers other people" thing, then we should ban people with slow reaction times from driving, ban people with high blood pressure or heart problems or a high cholestorol diet from driving public transport, ban cars full stop because of exhaust fumes and road fatalities, ban all firearms because theres a chance they could kill the same as there's a chance passive smoke could kill (and you can choose to leave a smokey place, you cant choose to not be an innocent bystander), etc etc etc ad nauseum. i used to smoke, and it is a bad habit, but i think as long as there's room for a choice to be made over whether you breath in the smoke or not, we should make allowances for smokers. it's far too easy for someone who's never smoked to say "yeah ban it, it sucks".

[EvilNed]

The state has no right to meddle in private enterprise, unless it's doing something illegal of course. But smoking isn't illegal. And telling me I can't smoke in my own bar is bull****. If it's a fire hazard they're worried about then say so and let me install more exits or something but I doubt that's what they care about. They've just been pressured to much by PC morons who want to control the rest of the population who don't agree with their PC lifestyle.

[Huescacho]

Tobacco = drug. The drug must be drop in fire (drugers too). We must protec our families from this dangers. When I was young, I smoked 2 or 3, and I hate their taste. Who smokes, knows the damage that they are doing to himself. I think that this must be erased!!!

[Mutineer]

Ahhhhh But who is the government to tell us what we can and cannot do ? If it was made illegal; there would simply be a black market for it; and crime, and turf wars, etc Drugs are bad; druggies are total losers .... but mkaing them illegal has done nothing but overcrowd our jails and increase crime. Remember prohibition in the states ? There was gangland and corruption up the wazoo until it was finally was repealed. Ban cigarettes ? No.

[MinionZombie]

Cigarettes aren't being outlawed for pete's sake, public areas are being rendered no smoking areas, only effectively, none of that 'invisible zone' garbage ... since when did lingering, unfiltered smoke obey invisible barriers? And why should smokers dictate whether non-smokers can enjoy a night out without being subjected to other people's smoke? nyah! As a non-smoker, why can't I stand at the bus-stop without standing amidst the low-hanging fugg of smokers standing next to me? As a non-smoker, why can't I walk down a public street on a rainy day without getting soggy ciggie-butt mush all over my shoes? As a non-smoker, why can't I go to an eatery and enjoy a meal without the bitter taste of smoke from a table nearby? As a non-smoker, why can't I go to a pub or a bar with some mates and enjoy a boozy night out without coming back stinking of smoke, my clothes, skin and hair all smokey, my eyes dry and irritated and my lungs hot and burning? Why should a non-smoker, who works in a pub have to deal with a whole load of smoke, perhaps they own and run the business, or perhaps it's the only job they could get? What about touring musicians, like the late Roy Walker (I think that was his name, if memory serves) who was a professional trumpet player (again, if memory serves) who never smoked a cig in his life, but toured as a musician in venues where there was smoking. It was his job and his passion to play music, and as a result of playing in the target venues, he got lung cancer and died...how is that fair? Smoking is a choice and I'm fine with people smoking, but being a non-smoker is also a choice, so there has to be give, because with smoke just flying about anywhere and everywhere, it's all give from the non-smokers and no give from smokers. There should, ideally, be designated areas which are well ventilated (to avoid the build up of fug), or specific pubs that cater specifically to a smoking & drinking crowd, while the majority of bars/pubs remain non-smoking (after all, smokers are in the minority - something officially like 23% in the UK?)...then there's a real choice in the matter and everyone is catered for.

[EvilNed]

And why should smokers dictate whether non-smokers can enjoy a night out without being subjected to other people's smoke? nyah! Because you went to a bar where smoking is allowed? As a non-smoker, why can't I stand at the bus-stop without standing amidst the low-hanging fugg of smokers standing next to me? Because you placed yourself next to the smoker? As a non-smoker, why can't I walk down a public street on a rainy day without getting soggy ciggie-butt mush all over my shoes? Because people throw **** on the ground, wether it be cigarette fags or gum or just plain old cans? As a non-smoker, why can't I go to an eatery and enjoy a meal without the bitter taste of smoke from a table nearby? Because you're in the Smoking section? As a non-smoker, why can't I go to a pub or a bar with some mates and enjoy a boozy night out without coming back stinking of smoke, my clothes, skin and hair all smokey, my eyes dry and irritated and my lungs hot and burning? Once again, because you went to a bar where smoking is allowed as opposed to bars where they aren't? Why should a non-smoker, who works in a pub have to deal with a whole load of smoke, perhaps they own and run the business, or perhaps it's the only job they could get? If they own and run the business, then they should be able to say "No smokes", as most people on this poll seem to agree on. If it's the only job they could get, then we should also ban cars as working as a taxi driver could get you killed, even if it was the only job they could get. What about touring musicians, like the late Roy Walker (I think that was his name, if memory serves) who was a professional trumpet player (again, if memory serves) who never smoked a cig in his life, but toured as a musician in venues where there was smoking. It was his job and his passion to play music, and as a result of playing in the target venues, he got lung cancer and died...how is that fair? I have no problem whatsoever navigating between the smokers, and I imagine that Roy had no problem doing the same. It's possible, if you want too, to stay completly clear of the smokers.

[Danny]

not in england it bloody isnt

[MinionZombie]

Yeah, I duno what world you're living in Ned, but smoke doesn't obey invisible lines drawn in the sand, so-to-speak, in restaurants or whatever where one end of the room is smoking and the other end of the same room is non-smoking - amazingly, smoke travels in the atmosphere and doesn't pay attention to this random idea of zoning. I never sit in the smoking section, yet amazingly, always come back stinking of smoke... The point in the smoking 'ban' (in 'public') is to create pubs where smoking is not allowed, I've yet to find a pub that doesn't allow smoking of it's own accord, at best you have a 'gastro pub' where you end up with the same invisible lines that smoke doesn't obey. Again, at the bus stop, smoke magically permeates the atmosphere and your personal bubble, whether you're 1ft or 10ft away from them. How on earth do you 'navigate between' smokers, when once again, the smoke doesn't obey invisible zone lines or personal spaces? A travelling musician, who's job and passion it is to play music, has to go to bars and pubs to earn their keep, which are basically one room filled with people, some of whom are smokers, all of which ends up in the entire atmosphere of the room, rather than hanging around the head of the smoker themselves......now that'd be a funny sight. At least I can't get drunk if I'm sat next to someone who's downing pints, nor will my breath smell of booze if I sit next/near to them, nor will my liver shrivel up... But speaking of booze, so much for that 24 hour idea to achieve the 'cafe culture' they have in France ... what a numpty idea ... apparently the stats show that drinking has ... SHOCK OF ALL SHOCKS ... increased!

[EvilNed]

I never sit in the smoking section, yet amazingly, always come back stinking of smoke.. I've never had that problem. Only when sitting in the non-smoking section. Yes, smoke travels. Usually upwards our out the window! But Hellsing raised a good point that It's probably alot harder to avoid smokers in London than in Stockholm. The point in the smoking 'ban' (in 'public') is to create pubs where smoking is not allowed, I've yet to find a pub that doesn't allow smoking of it's own accord, at best you have a 'gastro pub' where you end up with the same invisible lines that smoke doesn't obey. Actually no, there are many Smoking Bans, for instance in NY if I'm not mistaken (but coma will have to answer that one) where bars and offices aren't allowed to be smoked in, even if the owner wants it. How on earth do you 'navigate between' smokers, when once again, the smoke doesn't obey invisible zone lines or personal spaces? A travelling musician, who's job and passion it is to play music, has to go to bars and pubs to earn their keep, which are basically one room filled with people, some of whom are smokers, all of which ends up in the entire atmosphere of the room, rather than hanging around the head of the smoker themselves......now that'd be a funny sight. Smoke dissipates! It goes out the window! I cannot believe you actually find it HARD to navigate between smokers when I do it all the time. There's no difficulty avoiding smokers. When walking across the street I see him, I prepare myself and I... Round him. If he chooses to play at bars where they smoke, he has to face the consequences. It comes with the territory, just like being a roadside worker increases your chances of being hit by a car. At any time can both of these two workers say "**** this" and quit, and they'll live longer.

[DVW5150]

Generally I really don't care if an establishment is smoke free or not. As long as it has a non smoking section I am good. Bars on the other hand are full of smokers. Smokers love to smoke while having a drink. If fact how many smokers here who normally average a pack or so a day go through a pack in one night if they go to the bar? I would think that it would be bad for business to make a bar non smoking unless you were in a major metro area. Ageed, when I used to drink, I would go through a pack in an evening. At 2 am I would be buying a pack at 7-11 ...I really dont drink anymore at all. The time has to be rather special (New years) ... The thought of drinking sometimes makes me nauseous , then there are times when out of the blue Ill just say, "God I need a shot of Tequela !" As far as smoking, I chose the barowners option too. The only time I am at a bar is for a gig nowadays... Tobacco = drug. The drug must be drop in fire (drugers too). We must protec our families from this dangers. When I was young, I smoked 2 or 3, and I hate their taste. Who smokes, knows the damage that they are doing to himself. I think that this must be erased!!! Adolfs b-day was the 20th of last month...Sir, I must tell you: Your tone is getting fascistic , dictatorial , Hun-like ... If you dont like cigarettes , dont smoke . Please study up on you English. I myself would not bother to post on a site where I barely have a grasp on the language that people use to exchange ideas. Protec makes bicycle helmets and gloves I think. Maybe some police gear...OH PROTECT ... ok. Sorry , just trying to illustrate a point. When my daughters go bicycling , they wear helmets. When we first went cycling together, they complained that a bike helmet would 'mess up their hair'... I made it clear that a subdural hemotoma and /or ocular avulsion will permanently ruin their ability to care what their hair looks like. Oh , this is a smoking thread, Uh oh sorry ... After I send them to school, sometimes I give myself a 'whole new way of looking at the day'... " Smoke your little smoke, drink your little drink, while I dance the night away!Ahm a Dancin' foo-oo-ool (i may be totally wrong but) ahm a Dancin' foo-oo-ool "-Frank Zappa

[Huescacho]

Ageed, when I used to drink, I would go through a pack in an evening. At 2 am I would be buying a pack at 7-11 ...I really dont drink anymore at all. The time has to be rather special (New years) ... The thought of drinking sometimes makes me nauseous , then there are times when out of the blue Ill just say, "God I need a shot of Tequela !" As far as smoking, I chose the barowners option too. The only time I am at a bar is for a gig nowadays... Adolfs b-day was the 20th of last month...Sir, I must tell you: Your tone is getting fascistic , dictatorial , Hun-like ... If you dont like cigarettes , dont smoke . Please study up on you English. I myself would not bother to post on a site where I barely have a grasp on the language that people use to exchange ideas. Protec makes bicycle helmets and gloves I think. Maybe some police gear...OH PROTECT ... ok. Sorry , just trying to illustrate a point. When my daughters go bicycling , they wear helmets. When we first went cycling together, they complained that a bike helmet would 'mess up their hair'... I made it clear that a subdural hemotoma and /or ocular avulsion will permanently ruin their ability to care what their hair looks like. Oh , this is a smoking thread, Uh oh sorry ... After I send them to school, sometimes I give myself a 'whole new way of looking at the day'... " Smoke your little smoke, drink your little drink, while I dance the night away!Ahm a Dancin' foo-oo-ool (i may be totally wrong but) ahm a Dancin' foo-oo-ool "-Frank Zappa Yes, but I must paid taxes for cure them. All people can do that they want do, but without damage to nobody... Are you my teacher?. You aren't nobody for tell me what I must do. I don't think that my idea was fascist. Who are you for hurt me?. If I am Hitler, you are a ****ing bastard!. I must remember you, that in WWII, in U.S.A., there was a lot of fascists...

[Dommm]

I voted that bar owners should be allowed to decide if they should or should not ban smoking. As far as me walking down the street and smoking a cig, hmm I think that would be a little unfair. As far as I am concerned people should be given the choice as to if they should or should not go into a smoking bar etc... but if i want to sit in a park and smoke then who the hell gets to decide I should not. Tobacco = drug. The drug must be drop in fire (drugers too). We must protec our families from this dangers. When I was young, I smoked 2 or 3, and I hate their taste. Who smokes, knows the damage that they are doing to himself. I think that this must be erased!!! drop people that use drugs in a fire.... mmm not very smart if i chose or chose not to do drugs is my concern and none of yours to say that is one statement too far. Yes, but I must paid taxes for cure them. All people can do that they want do, but without damage to nobody... Are you my teacher?. You aren't nobody for tell me what I must do. I don't think that my idea was fascist. Who are you for hurt me?. If I am Hitler, you are a ****ing bastard!. I must remember you, that in WWII, in U.S.A., there was a lot of fascists... anything you do in life effects the person next to you or down the road or half way across the world... accept this life will be more peaceful. What you have suggested does sound a little facist. Also in the UK we pay such a high tax on cigs and booze that the cost to the tax payer negligable at best.

[MinionZombie]

But smoking related illnesses are still a big drain on the NHS, which needs all the help it can get as I'm sure all us Brits are aware of. Speaking of which, I like the idea of refusing treatment to people who have specifically abused their body, but I think they get one do-over to begin with, and then that's it, if they don't seek to improve their ways, then tough luck mate. You don't need to booze it up, you don't need to smoke, you don't need to eat 4 times your daily allowance of callories, but people do it and it's a drain on a crumbling, damaged system that needs to reign sh*t in. One do-over freebie, and then no more unless the patient makes concerted and continuous effort to change their addiction to whatever it might be. There's people with Alzheimers and cancers who can't get the drugs they should have a right to because the system is so weighed down with beaurocracy and incompetence and needless expenditure ... if your health problems are self inflicted, well ... like I've said twice before... A separate issue to the smoking ban, but the smoking thing was a spring board...

[fartpants]

it seems to me that by protecting non-smokers rights, we are just trampling all over smokers rights. Personal choice is one of the founding ideals of any civilised society...