BBC: Best Christmas film?

**JDP** · 21-Dec-2018

Originally Posted by bassman

The terrorist plot takes place at Christmas in particular for several reasons, the main character is only involved at all because of Christmas, and in the end he learns the timeless Christmas lesson about family. Pretty much the same things that are seen in most others. Not to mention the many, many other references.

Also, people tend to forget that Bruce Willis’ comment was said during a comedy roast and was followed by a smug “it’s a BRUCE WILLIS movie!”, as a joke. If we’re taking the creatives’ statements into account, McTiernan, Silver, DeSouza, etc have gone on record saying it’s a Christmas flick, as well as the author of the original novel that it’s adapted from.

But, as I said, at the end of the day it’s split among fans because it’s such a great flick that can be seen in different ways. At the very least it includes enough Christmas elements to cause that split and debate that’s been going for thirty years, so that’s fun!

A couple other mentions that just came to mind: Jingle All The Way and The Long Kiss Goodnight. One is a cheesy over the top Schwarzenegger romp and the other is an over the top Shane Black actioner.

If their intention was to make a "Christmas movie" they totally failed. Again, all the mentions of Christmas in the movie are just incidental. In fact, the majority of mentions are very trivial "Merry Christmas!" greetings. You can change them to any other holiday (ex: "Happy Halloween!") and it won't alter the main plot of the movie. Christmas does not play any important part in the movie.

**bassman** · 21-Dec-2018

Originally Posted by JDP

If their intention was to make a "Christmas movie" they totally failed. Again, all the mentions of Christmas in the movie are just incidental. In fact, the majority of mentions are very trivial "Merry Christmas!" greetings. You can change them to any other holiday (ex: "Happy Halloween!") and it won't alter the main plot of the movie. Christmas does not play any important part in the movie.

Different strokes for different folks. No matter which side of the debate, we all win because Die Hard is an incredible film!

**MinionZombie** · 22-Dec-2018

There was an episode of Mark Kermode's Secrets of Cinema on the other night and it was all about Christmas movies. Die Hard was discussed in amongst it all - including the fact that John's wife is called Holly.

Bizarrely, though, National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation didn't get a single look in! *faints*

**shootemindehead** · 22-Dec-2018

I remember when 'Die Hard' was released in 1988 (July in America and Spring 89 in Ireland). Absolutely nobody considered it a "Christmas" movie. That idea only came around later. Much later.

**JDP** · 22-Dec-2018

Originally Posted by shootemindehead

I remember when 'Die Hard' was released in 1988 (July in America and Spring 89 in Ireland). Absolutely nobody considered it a "Christmas" movie. That idea only came around later. Much later.

I saw it at the movie theaters back then too. Same thing: no one said anything about it being a "Christmas movie" back in those days.

**bassman** · 22-Dec-2018

No matter which side of the debate everyone lands on, has anyone ever thought it was strange that Nakatomi is having their office Christmas party ON Christmas Eve? At night, no less? Is this normal practice for large companies? Apparently they didn’t consider that the employees would want to be home with family??

I’ve been trying to think of some of my more offbeat Christmas movie traditions with each post I make. All I got at the moment is Ernest Saves Christmas. It’s slightly off the beaten path, but I think it generally makes some Christmas lists. I loved the silly character and quite a few of his earlier films. I was even Ernest for Halloween this year.

**~~blind2d~~** · 22-Dec-2018

Originally Posted by shootemindehead

'Die Hard' isn't a Christmas film. Even Bruce Willis says so.

Seriously though, feckin 'Love Actually' placed above the 1951 film 'Scrooge'? That's a load of old pony. 'Scrooge' should be at least in the top 3.

Agreed!

**EvilNed** · 23-Dec-2018

Having run a tradition of seeing up to 8 christmas movies in a Marathon each year for the last 7, (and always picking new ones to watch) I must say that there's definitely some films around that could take place at another time and place than during christmas festivities. Die Hard for instance. But it works really well as a christmas movie and integrates music, scenery and plot points of christmas into it (The office party is a christmas party, for instance) well enough to give it a great christmas feel.

But any film that does not revolve around family values, the importance of being close to your loved ones or learning to having faith could be rewritten without too much hassle to become set at some other time.

Most christmas films revolve around a character, usually a kid growing up, having doubts about Christmas. Through an adventure he or she learns that it's important to have faith.

**shootemindehead** · 23-Dec-2018

It all depends on what one considers a "Christmas" movie, to state the bleedin obvious.

So, for instance, personally I would consider 'A Christmas Carol' (and variations thereof) to be a "Christmas" movie, as Christmas is integral to the plot and without it, it's a very different film. 'Die Hard' may take place during a Christmas office party, but the time of year is irrelevant to the film. As JDP said earlier, it could be 4th of July party, or even Thanksgiving.

The opening of 'The French Connection' takes place at Christmas, does that make it a "Christmas" movie? No, of course not. 'Jaws' takes place around the 4th of July. Is that a "4th of July" movie?

It's a funny debate though and it rages worse and worse every flippin year as time goes by. The thing is though, it was never intended to be a "Christmas" movie by its makers and, as said earlier, nobody considered it as such when it was released. Even 'Die Hard 2' (also with a Christmas background) was released in the Summer (July 4th to be exact) and you'd think if the producers intent was to make a "Christmas" movie, they would have capitalised on that particular release date.

'Die Hard' became a Christmas movie, by virtue of the fact that fans of the film made it such and it's further morphed into one of the "great" internet debates that will never end.

**MinionZombie** · 23-Dec-2018

Crazy theory here folks, but ... movies can be more than one genre or 'thing' simultaneously.

Die Hard is an action movie and also a Christmas movie.

**JDP** · 23-Dec-2018

For me it is very clear: for a movie to be declared some "holiday movie", the holiday in question needs to be relevant for the plot, in a way that you could not change said holiday without affecting important parts of the movie. For example, Night of the Demons is unquestionably a "Halloween movie". Why? Because Halloween plays an important part to the plot (as one of the characters pertinently points out, it is the day when demonic forces are at their strongest, thus why the demons are unleashed at the Halloween party setting.) This movie would not work as well in a setting other than Halloween. That holiday is very "embedded" into the plot. But Die Hard does NOT qualify as a "Christmas" -or in fact any other holiday- movie, because the holiday in question does not play any important part in the plot, it is just incidental. You can easily change it to another holiday/celebration and the movie will work just as well.

**EvilNed** · 23-Dec-2018

Of course Die Hard is a Christmas movie. It's on pretty much everyone's top 10 list over favorite Christmas movies. If that doesn't make it a Christmas movie, then I don't know what will.

As for the creators intentions that's irrelevant.

**JDP** · 24-Dec-2018

People who don't know what they are talking about and haven't got any solid criteria regarding what constitutes a "holiday movie" do not count. They can even put Cannibal Holocaust in their list of "Summer Vacation" movies if they want to, it would still not really make it so. When Die Hard first came out, no one was saying anything about it being a "Christmas movie". It was a summer blockbuster action movie; what it was, is and always will be. This clueless "Christmas movie" classification is relatively recent.