New BNP leaflets

[Tricky]

A lot of people on my facebook friends list have been practically hysterical today because the BNP gained a couple of seats,saying they feel physically sick & want to cry etc,but they are the same people who just a few days ago when asked if they were voting said "i wont be voting,it doesnt make any difference & they're all the same anyway", sorry but the very fact they didnt turn out -and that applies to a huge percentage of the population - means that they gave griffin & his racist cohorts an opportunity to get in with very few votes! They all had the chance to turn out and vote for any of the other main or fringe parties which would likely have blocked the BNP from getting in, but instead they were probably all sat at home eagerly watching the launch of the new big brother series,pretending politics was some far off boring land that doesnt affect them & their lives. Voter apathy & indifference has let a fascist party get a foot on the ladder, lets hope by the next election people will have been shaken up enough by this to get off their arses & vote against them,even if its just for the monster raving loony party! I cant stand the BNP,but they have won their seats fair & square so all these people who didnt turn out to vote that are making a fuss now have nobody to blame but themselves!

[MinionZombie]

A lot of people on my facebook friends list have been practically hysterical today because the BNP gained a couple of seats,saying they feel physically sick & want to cry etc,but they are the same people who just a few days ago when asked if they were voting said "i wont be voting,it doesnt make any difference & they're all the same anyway", sorry but the very fact they didnt turn out -and that applies to a huge percentage of the population - means that they gave griffin & his racist cohorts an opportunity to get in with very few votes! They all had the chance to turn out and vote for any of the other main or fringe parties which would likely have blocked the BNP from getting in, but instead they were probably all sat at home eagerly watching the launch of the new big brother series,pretending politics was some far off boring land that doesnt affect them & their lives. Voter apathy & indifference has let a fascist party get a foot on the ladder, lets hope by the next election people will have been shaken up enough by this to get off their arses & vote against them,even if its just for the monster raving loony party! I cant stand the BNP,but they have won their seats fair & square so all these people who didnt turn out to vote that are making a fuss now have nobody to blame but themselves! What frustrates me is that the few people in the media who are challenging the BNP, aren't putting up any kind of fight. They're all being very polite about it and not challenging the BNP on their views and what they've said in the past & present.

[EvilNed]

If you don't vote, then you shouldn't be allowed to live in a democracy. That's what I say.

[MinionZombie]

If you don't vote, then you shouldn't be allowed to live in a democracy. That's what I say. Not voting is surely a democratic choice - choosing to not give your vote to anyone. You don't have to if you don't want to ... but then equally, if you don't get involved, you can't complain specifically about certain things. As for the BNP... 1) I'm sick of politicians & journalists stone-walling them - debate these fuckers, and show them up for exactly what they are. 2) Stop calling them "far right" - the tone you often hear "right" used on the BBC suggests their own political bias against any right-of-centre party, so essentially they're trying to suggest "BNP = Conservative, and vice versa". The political spectrum isn't a line, it's a circle - the BNP are both at the far right, and the far left - indeed, probably more far left than far right - the best description would be "ultra nationalist". 3) News readers/commentators/presenters need to stop being so fucking polite to the BNP whenever they interview one of them (mainly Nick-sodding-Griffin). They're all "please" and "thank you" with the BNP, and simply ask them a robotic question and allow them to say their piece in its entirety, with - at best - a vague chuck in of "but you're racist though, aren't you?" and then they run away from the issue. These same presenters will happily give the Tories a hard time, or UKIP, or even the LibDems, but the BNP are getting let off the hook - it's sickening. Ugh - morning rant over.

[EvilNed]

Not voting is surely a democratic choice - choosing to not give your vote to anyone. You don't have to if you don't want to ... but then equally, if you don't get involved, you can't complain specifically about certain things. I don't agree. You can always leave a blank vote, if that's the sort of thing you're after.

[Chic Freak]

I think everyone should have to vote, but there should be a box to tick to say you are conscientiously abstaining from voting (rather than just not bothering). It would maintain democracy in every sense and also be better representative of the public's true views, because people who had no faith in any party would also be counted. Stop calling them "far right" - the tone you often hear "right" used on the BBC suggests their own political bias against any right-of-centre party, so essentially they're trying to suggest "BNP = Conservative, and vice versa". The political spectrum isn't a line, it's a circle - the BNP are both at the far right, and the far left - indeed, probably more far left than far right - the best description would be "ultra nationalist". huh? Isn't it fair to refer to the BNP as being far right? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I genuinely don't understand what you're saying here?

[MinionZombie]

I think everyone should have to vote, but there should be a box to tick to say you are conscientiously abstaining from voting (rather than just not bothering). It would maintain democracy in every sense and also be better representative of the public's true views, because people who had no faith in any party would also be counted. Forcing people to go and vote, even just to register themselves not voting? Sounds less democratic to me, or less suitable an action in a democracy. If a bunch of people don't want to get up and go to the polling station, then fine, and if they're all "yaboo sucks, they're all the same" and they don't wanna vote, then fine again with them staying at home. It's their choice, and if that's what they want, then fine by me. ... The political spectrum shouldn't be viewed as a single straight line - it should be viewed as a circle - and the BNP come at the joining point between both ends - extreme left and extreme right, but saying "the far righty-lefty BNP" or whatever isn't much cop, so they should be called "ultra nationalist" - which makes sense with their party's name anyway, and they're extreme agenda regarding nationalistic values. Tim Montgomerie explains it better than I can: In some ways their professed patriotism might put them on the traditional right of the political spectrum although it is, of course, true that many on the Left also love their country. I would argue, however, that many of their policies come from a Left-wing, big state mindset. This partly explains their success in traditionally Labour areas. I think, for example, of the BNP's support for high rates of taxation on higher income earners, their support for nationalising strategically important economic assets and also their protectionist policies on trade. Lord Tebbit also described the BNP recently as: "Labour With Racism" The BNP also fucks me off in the way they try to seize agendas by just spouting words like "imma'gints" or "soldiers" ... ... it's like that Family Guy episode when Lois runs for Mayor of Quahog, and she just panders to the voters by repeatedly droning "9/11" as her answer to everything - resulting in the audience going wild for her and voting her in. It also makes a lot of sense to not describe them solely as "far right" (I do wonder if certain rabidly left and still rather angry sorts in the BBC etc are trying to suggest "BNP = Conservative Party", to be honest). The BNP have gotten themselves their votes from Labour heartlands, from disenchanted Labour voters. I was speaking to an ex-paid-up-member of the Labour Party today who said the same thing, but who is fortunately also disgusted by the BNP.

[Chic Freak]

Forcing people to go and vote, even just to register themselves not voting? Sounds less democratic to me, or less suitable an action in a democracy. If a bunch of people don't want to get up and go to the polling station, then fine, and if they're all "yaboo sucks, they're all the same" and they don't wanna vote, then fine again with them staying at home. It's their choice, and if that's what they want, then fine by me. Me too. I just think that the number of people actively choosing not to vote should be registered as well as what parties are voted for. It would be a way of accurately measuring voter faith in the system and the available parties. Say if the winning party got in by a 30% majority, but another 30% of the population ticked the "I don't think any of these bastards should be allowed to rule the country" box- that would tell us something important about just how popular the winning party really are. they should be called "ultra nationalist" - which makes sense with their party's name anyway, and they're extreme agenda regarding nationalistic values. The term "ultra-nationalist" and- let's face it- the BNP itself- made me think of the Nazis... would you also class them as far lefty-righty? Again, I'm not being argumentative, just genuinely trying to get a grip on what you mean Lord Tebbit also described the BNP recently as: "Labour With Racism" Can I be super cynical here and ask whether Lord Tebbit is a Tory trying to capitalise on anti-BNP feeling by likening Labour to them? If I'm wrong and he's actually a member of the Green party or something I do apologise. The BNP also fucks me off in the way they try to seize agendas by just spouting words like "imma'gints" or "soldiers" ... Agreed. It's the ultimate in appealing to the lowest common denominator tactics and it makes me sick. I do wonder if certain rabidly left and still rather angry sorts in the BBC etc are trying to suggest "BNP = Conservative Party", to be honest Surely being rabidly left would also make them rabidly right and therefore in favour of the BNP?

[MinionZombie]

"I don't think any of these bastards should be allowed to rule the country" Bizarre - and I don't agree with that thought at all. That's the sort of "yaboo sucks, a pox on all your houses" thinking that's not going to help Britain, parliament, or politics in general in this country. Also, it'd be odd to have "I'm not voting" count as a vote that influences the outcome - are you voting, or are you not? That's "cake and eat it too" 'am and am not voting' you've got there. Lord Tebbit is a Tory - but very much an old Tory - i.e. old, buggered out, looks like a corpse, totally old school, old guard, out-of-date - I think he's a bit of a trouble-making arse as well actually (unless I'm thinking of another old-ass, old-school, out-of-date Tory back bencher who looks similarly returned from the living dead). Regardless of whether his comment is spiteful or inciteful - it is a good point - because essentially (this was looked at on Polling Report too), the BNP votes came from Labour voters. Although the poll/report suggested that policy wise those who voted BNP should have really been "working class Tories" - but if they were always voting Labour, then you just know they wouldn't be caught dead voting Tory, so regardless of whatever variables and "ifs", the BNP votes came specifically and wholly (bar the inevitable handful) from the Labour side. "Labour with Racism" is a bit simplified, but it also makes a fair bit of sense in short hand - although the BNP have policies which straddle the left and right of the political mindset circle (circle - not line), but I do believe that the BNP are certainly (ideologically, and policy wise) technically left wing. I do wonder if the media classing them as "far right" is down to a snide disliking of any "right wing" party (regardless of where on the right - basically, "anyone who isn't Labour" - knowing the likes of Kay-fucking-Burley et al prancing around) ... but I'd certainly bargain that a lot of it is just down to people not being able to classify the BNP specifically - hence why "ultra nationalist" would make the most sense, or "extreme nationalist" or something like that. It's all flag-waving stuff, but with the epic down side of being incredibly xenophobic, racist and violent. Agreed. It's the ultimate in appealing to the lowest common denominator tactics and it makes me sick. *high five* for shared disgust. Surely being rabidly left would also make them rabidly right and therefore in favour of the BNP? Well, there's rabidly left, and then there's fucking barmy - the latter is where the BNP are ... violently barmy even. What I was really meaning I guess, is the likes of Kay Burley, or that arse of a Labour politician who is "proud" of "never wearing a suit" (seriously - you're proud of that - to call that an achievement worth being proud of, is an insult to all achievements ever gained ) ... Skinner is his name, I think - he's there in a sports jacket or something, about ten-or-less arses usually to Gordon Brown's right hand side ... he's often sat on the stairs too...he is an arse. Anyway - yeah - the sort of left winger who is really snide and arrogant about being on the left, the sort of person who says bullshit like "left is right, and right is wrong" - I hate arses like that...ugh! There's such people on the far right too - the sort of people who bash gays, and then get caught with a cock-in-the-mouth in a public toilet. ... I did see a rather funny video of Dianne Abbott (Labour) taking the piss out of Keith Vaz (Labour - corrupt, complete arse, ambulance chaser, liar, general twat) when he stood up to congratulate Postman Johnson on getting the Home Office job (congratulate him on gaining the job that's sent countless MPs to their political graves? ) - Abbott made slurping noises (they really sounded like cock-sucking noises though, ha!) - even Johnson found it hilarious (as did many of the small number of MPs still in the Commons at the time) - Abbott was practically dying just trying to stop from bursting out laughing herself. Can't find the video now, but it was hilarious. Abbott is at least someone I can mostly respect on the Labour side - she sticks to her beliefs, she won't be swayed, she's openly critical of 'New' Labour (how cynical of Labour as well to rebrand themselves as "New Labour" too, just thinking about it - what next after they suffer in opposition - "Labour Classic"? ) Mind you, sometimes she can frustrate me - there was something she was saying on "This Week" a few months back, and it was just a bunch of ill-informed, scare-mongering, man-hating tripe which used statistics that were proved incorrect. which washed over the true heart of the issue being discussed (human trafficking, if memory serves). But at least I can respect her generally. I'll shut up now.

[Publius]

The term "ultra-nationalist" and- let's face it- the BNP itself- made me think of the Nazis... would you also class them as far lefty-righty? Certainly -- not many right-wingers call themselves "socialist" (as in "National Socialist") after all. MZ's right about the BNP too. New Statesman had an article about the BNP recently that continually called it "far-right," but when looking at the party's actual platform acknowledged that it "has positioned itself to the left of Labour."

[krakenslayer]

Fascist parties are almost always Populist, meaning they usually fall somewhere in the mid-rage with most of their policies, deviating only in issues that deal with The Other. Bear in mind though, I think the Left-Right political spectrum is a gross oversimplification. To more accurately chart political stance, you have to introduce another dimension; instead of a two-way spectrum, you can have a four-way polarised spectrum like this, which I think is a lot better at illustrating attitudes: Here's me, the sad old lefty that I am: note that I'm Left-Libertarian, not Left-Authoritarian (which would be classed as "socialist" or "communist") You can take the test here: http://www.politicalcompass.org/index

[Danny]

i got almost the same, between ghandi and the dalai lama apparently. personally id be interested to see just how communist good el ned actually is on this graph

[Chic Freak]

That test was hard. I think I'm starting to get the hang of this righty-lefty circle business. Last time I checked, the BNP classed itself as "fascist" so I looked up "fascism" on wiki and this bit was quite interesting and relevant and made things a bit clearer

[MinionZombie]

"Facism" is too complex - especially for the knuckle-dragging BNP - ergo "c**ts" would be a far more appropriate descriptor for them. I was gonna do that test, but the lack of middle ground "don't know/meh" options turned me off ... plus it was too long/I couldn't be arsed/the new telly arrived at the door.

[Tricky]

Well there we have it! *edit bugger it wont show,anyway it came up as centre left,although i consider myself more of a centre right kinda guy!