Who said these bastards were rehabilitated (Bulger murder)

[capncnut]

If this has got anything to do with child abuse then Venables automatically loses his right to anonymity and gets a trial under his own name in my opinion. And no segregation in prison either. Haven't we paid enough for this walking turd to be hidden away like some great shame? And I wonder where those rumours of him starting a fight came from. Now the old bill are sending out lies and false reports to protect this piece of filth.

[SymphonicX]

Of course they knew the severity of their actions, they tried to abduct another child earlier in the day, and they tried to cover their tracks afterwards, they werent exactly just doing it on a whim. Blaming poverty is frankly pathetic, there are children in other parts of the world who grow up in far, far worse poverty & conditions than those two fucked up arseholes did, who dont torture other kids to death. Why keep making excuses for them? Some people are just born nasty pieces of work & no amount hugs or rewarding them for it is ever going to change that. Despite the millions of taxpayers money that has been spent supposedly rehabilitating those two & treating them like royalty, neither of them have ever shown any remorse whatsoever for what they did to James, according to reports from people who looked after their care while they were locked up, & certainly Venables has revelled in his notoriety! The system clearly hasnt worked, & I think the whole way those two were dealt with has been a big experiment by successive governments & the justice system who are now shitting themselves because its failed, hence all the secrecy around it. Say what you like about this, because i'll stick to my opinion, I think those two should both have been given a lethal jab as soon as they were convicted. Im not talking about beating them to death or making them swing or whatever out of vengeful spite, just quickly & quietly removing two dangerous individuals from society permanently. Last time I checked there was a 0% chance of re-offending among executed murderers. I dont understand people who say "society is supposed to have evolved" or "if we did that we're going back to the dark ages", do they think we live in some peaceful hippy utopia where bad things never happen & that we're all trendy modern thinkers? If there is ever another case like this which I expect at some point in the future there will be unfortunately, it would be extremely stupid & naive of the justice system to employ the same brand of justice as they have with Thompson & Venables. Well I've said my piece. I think you're so far off the mark on this one that you're bordering into absurdity. It's cool though, I still love ya Bottom line is everything I've said and I still hold the opinion that calling for the death of a 10 year old boy (even "peacefully" as you put it) is nothing short of sick.

[Legion2213]

Who said these bastards were rehabilitated The bleeding hearts, the liberals, the human rightists, the guardianista-chatterati...i.e the usual bunch of do-gooder dick heads.

[Tricky]

Well I've said my piece. I think you're so far off the mark on this one that you're bordering into absurdity. It's cool though, I still love ya Bottom line is everything I've said and I still hold the opinion that calling for the death of a 10 year old boy (even "peacefully" as you put it) is nothing short of sick. So what would your suggestion have been to punish them for what they did, just say hypothetically you were in charge of their punishment back in '93? Surely you cant think that the way it was handled was the best way to go? especially now we see Venables was never turned into a decent or even safe member of society despite the millions spent on him! I also think that since this latest breach, he has forfeited his right to anonymity & he should be turfed out on the streets without all the police protection he has enjoyed up to now. If all the reports about his drug taking, alcohol abuse & fighting are true, then the police & justice system have clearly been doing a pretty slack job of keeping an eye on him over the past few years...

[SymphonicX]

So what would your suggestion have been to punish them for what they did, just say hypothetically you were in charge of their punishment back in '93? Surely you cant think that the way it was handled was the best way to go? especially now we see Venables was never turned into a decent or even safe member of society despite the millions spent on him! I also think that since this latest breach, he has forfeited his right to anonymity & he should be turfed out on the streets without all the police protection he has enjoyed up to now. If all the reports about his drug taking, alcohol abuse & fighting are true, then the police & justice system have clearly been doing a pretty slack job of keeping an eye on him over the past few years... All very valid points Tricky. And that's problematic for all of us, coming up with a workable solution. But you also hit a nail with this idea of him being turfed out with no protection - because in terms of a solution to the problem, in a way this can create a weird sort of circle - let me explain.... One of the most powerful, influential incentives or motivators in society is shame...a basic fear of society's reaction to something...this can easily turn to fear should the right situation evolve and this is what would happen if he was realeased - he'd be shit scared and would inevitably be torn apart limb from limb - with a sickening message being sent out to all and sundry that our society can and will fight back against the sick shit in the world... No matter how questionable I think that is, I'd say it'd probably work in a sort of Krays-esque manner. Would it have stopped those two 11 year olds dropping a sink on those kids in Eddlington? Nope. Let's not bet on it... You'll probably find people, particularly like me, would rather concentrate on prevention than cure... I have said a few times that obviously the current situation hasn't worked and the problem is there isn't a sufficient infrastructure even thought of to properly tackle these kids who are f**m from the word "go". See the problem is so blatantly going deeper than two kids arbitrarily waking up with murder on their minds. They are really the tip of the iceberg, and in a sense this particular case was an early warning sign - instead we chose to blame Child's Play 3 and whatnot but really couldn't deal with the fact that we are becoming less and less responsive to our children and family life was decaying alarmingly. Its worse now, and if you look back to 1993 kids weren't as messed up as they are now. I was 12, growing up in East London...things were pretty bad but now its harsh. This is all due to the breakdown of family...and also, adressing a point from earlier - kids in abject poverty do the most disgusting things around the world from stealing to murder - the allusion that kids in africa are living in poverty peacefully is misguided. I can attach probably 30 pictures to this post with kids holding Ak47s, pickpocketing, robbing, etc etc and this is a huge problem. In areas of particularly high crime kids will commit the bulk of the street level stuff because the law won't charge them. In poverty in the UK it's mixed less survival based crime with more boredom based crime and this is why these chavvy uneducated little twats will mug, stab, rape or kill for a mars bar. This is due to the breakdown of society, a lack of fundamental guidance, and the very shame that we talked about earler. So we can keep locking them up or hanging them or peacefully injecting them (!!!!) but there'll be another bunch to take their place in a system that's already failed and continues to. So as I say, throw em out on the streets might be the only way to solve it if we haven't got a team of people with enough social conscience and integrity to come up with a decent plan. I'm fucking glad it's not up to either of us!!! I wish I could beat this whole thread into submission with the golden ticket...but alas it's just another wonka bar. I've always toyed with the idea of a prison village...self contained and functional with it's own police force of prisoners and a mayor, also a prisoner, shit like that - kinda like that Ray Liotta movie but less tribal and stuff...just fuckin' get rid of the worst ones... But as I say, another 10 to replace them because we're breeding faster than teaching. There's a social underclass that's boiling with anger and resentment and it's all going to come to a head - one side is religious piousness and extremism and on the other is pure ignorance and resentment. We're all fucked. Might as well let them both go to be honest...the weird thing is that they are safer inside? Are they locking away the criminals from us or keeping us away from them?

[Chic Freak]

They were stupid, twisted, fucked up little kids who had no idea of the severity of their actions and had no love, respect or time given to them and were from abusive backgrounds living in poverty... - but to write off these kids as "evil" is so archaic, and blindsided. Seems like this is turning towards a nature/ nurture debate between SymphonicX blaming the boys' environment and Tricky saying they were destined to be evil from birth: Some people are just born nasty pieces of work & no amount hugs or rewarding them for it is ever going to change that. SymphonicX, taking an objective, scientific approach and referring to psychological explanations for their behaviour (instead of knee-jerk emotional reactions) doesn't necessarily discount the idea of certain people being born with a strong disposition towards acts we would call "evil." Info on psychopathy here. If what Tricky says here is true, you will see that it does support the notion of the boys being psychopaths: Despite the millions of taxpayers money that has been spent supposedly rehabilitating those two & treating them like royalty, neither of them have ever shown any remorse whatsoever for what they did to James, according to reports from people who looked after their care while they were locked up, & certainly Venables has revelled in his notoriety! Of course they knew the severity of their actions, they tried to abduct another child earlier in the day, and they tried to cover their tracks afterwards, they werent exactly just doing it on a whim. A psychopathic child would be less moved by the suffering of James (Blair, 1999), more likely to take risks to seek stimulation (Quay, 1965) and generally less worried about the situation (BBC article) and therefore more likely to patiently keep trying until they found a child, rather than give up lose or their nerve. BUT, just to make figuring out the cause more difficult, sociopaths are indistinguishable from psychopaths in their behaviour and neurology BUT their condition is caused by their social environment (hence SOCIOpath) and not solely by what they were born with. So we can still legitimately "blame the parents" and whoever else for creating and unleashing two monsters on the world. This is indeed harder to accept than just saying, "they ws just evil, innit. End of." If that really was the end of it then why is sociopathy on the rise in the UK? Will Self's point was well made: The truth is, and as Will Self said on Question Time last week, it's far easier for people to believe that these kids are sitting there with devil's horns, scheming for the destruction of humanity than it is for us to realise the uncomfortable truth.... ... that many of these people are being made, not born, which means the environments they are in must be improved as soon as possible in order to save lives. Blaming poverty is frankly pathetic, there are children in other parts of the world who grow up in far, far worse poverty & conditions than those two fucked up arseholes did, who dont torture other kids to death. Actually, poverty is one of the most consistently accurate predictors of criminality, e.g. check out social disorganisation theory. Say what you like about this, because i'll stick to my opinion Then what's the point of being involved in a discussion?

[Tricky]

Then what's the point of being involved in a discussion? Tis only similar to the house of commons where they shout at each other from different sides of the room & rival parties wont back down Good post though Chic

[Neil]

He's appearing in court... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10735857 Is he going to get a second second chance?

[Ghost Of War]

Well, if the justice system in this country needs a chance to show that it works, he should be sent back to prison for the remainder of his sentence. He is, after all, out on license. There will be absolute uproar in Liverpool if he is released "on license" again.

[Neil]

Well, if the justice system in this country needs a chance to show that it works, he should be sent back to prison for the remainder of his sentence. He is, after all, out on license. There will be absolute uproar in Liverpool if he is released "on license" again. Yurp! EDIT: He's admitted being guilty of the charges - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-offences.html

[Ghost Of War]

Jailed for 2 years. 2 YEARS!! He'll be out in 12 months, with a new id. Disgraceful.

[Neil]

Jailed for 2 years. 2 YEARS!! He'll be out in 12 months, with a new id. Disgraceful. And no doubt is a 'special wing' for those 12months to protect him...

[Neil]

It gets worse - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...er-online.html

[slickwilly13]

Reading this makes me glad I live Texas. Too bad they did not commit those horrible crimes here. They deserve no mercy and no protection. You guys need to change some laws over there. Maybe a revolution? It pisses me off that some people care more about the criminals than the victims. They are no better than these turds.

[Legion2213]

And our "justice system" (I use the term loosely) bends over backwards to protect this disgusting piece of filth whilst spitting on the grave of James Bulger and kicking his relatives in the face again. I hope he gets sussed out and knifed to death in his cell. I very rarely, genuinely wish death on anybody...but this one, yes, I really do want to wake up one morning and read/hear that he has been butchered.