TWD 9x15 "The Calm Before" episode discussion... **SPOILERS**

[JDP]

I'd imagine she had a few tagalongs lurking about helping facilitate her plan, but she would have also been getting people alone, which would have been easy enough with the vast majority of people all congregated in the same area(s). Find a way of getting someone alone - then pounce. However, we don't see those mechanics in action as it would just take too long, for one, and for two, it'd not really fit into the big reveal sequence at the end. The emotion and the revelation of the scene is what's important to get across to the viewer, whereas the literal how of it isn't. The "how" is important. Without any explanation whatsoever regarding this detail, it certainly makes you wonder how could they pull this off. Kidnapping a bunch of people in broad daylight in such a crowded place is not something that is bound to easily go unnoticed. On top of that, most of these people were seasoned survivors, not exactly the easiest kind to abduct. Katelyn Nacon herself is not satisfied with how this was handled: https://www.cinemablend.com/televisi...n-out-of-story Katelyn Nacon was also frustrated that The Walking Dead didn't show how Alpha managed to kidnap the people in her group, including Enid -- whose mantra was always JSS, Just Survive Somehow. They could simply have shown that Alpha infiltrated the fair with a few also disguised confederates, for example, which would make the scenario a bit easier to swallow.

[Zombie Snack]

I think the "how" that all these people were captured/kidnapped was not shown to get the most shock value from the ghastly reveal of the severed heads. Now that we have seen who was piked I do think they should do a flashback scene showing how this was accomplished, more than the scene off them fighting and being killed, that was shown, how did they get there, what transpired that got them in that situation.

[facestabber]

I’m cool with them skipping the How for this episode. If we saw a team of whisperers gear up and infiltrate it would kill the mystery. We weren’t sure what Alphas plan was beyond gathering intel and confronting Lydia. I have read many theories that Siddiq was allowed to live for a reason..... The fair goers definitely let their guard down. After a decade of hell I can understand complacency setting in for something so unique and fun as a fair/movie. Now and after the reveal I would certainly like to see how Tara was caught considering her vocal objection to Lydia’s presence. She was on alert. JDP I understand what you’re saying and agree. I just don’t agree that the How fits to this episode.

[Moon Knight]

Maybe I missed something because I had to watch this episode in two parts, as there was a screw up on AMC's part when the episode premiered and it was incompletely recorded, but how did the Whisperers manage to capture so many people without anyone noticing? We only saw Alpha infiltrate the fair. Did she do all this on her own? I knew the episode was running an extra 25 minutes and saw the actual listing on the cable box running until 10pm. I then set it to record and extra 30 minutes after just in case. AMC is the worst. So, one quick example was the pipes needing attention so Henry went to investigate it quick before the movie, a nice call back to 9x06 when he was working on the piping. He was knocked out and quietly taken. I assume this also happened to the others, too. Alpha asking Ezekiel where the storage for clothing was another example on how she tricked people into being alone and away from the group. I personally don’t have to know exactly how everyone was taken, don’t need to see it cause I can put things together quite well. The reveal scene worked so much better without knowing in advance who was up there.

[MinionZombie]

I knew the episode was running an extra 25 minutes and saw the actual listing on the cable box running until 10pm. I then set it to record and extra 30 minutes after just in case. AMC is the worst. So, one quick example was the pipes needing attention so Henry went to investigate it quick before the movie, a nice call back to 9x06 when he was working on the piping. He was knocked out and quietly taken. I assume this also happened to the others, too. Alpha asking Ezekiel where the storage for clothing was another example on how she tricked people into being alone and away from the group. I personally don’t have to know exactly how everyone was taken, don’t need to see it cause I can put things together quite well. The reveal scene worked so much better without knowing in advance who was up there. Exactly. Editorially speaking it'd be far too clunky to try and mash in the "how" of their abduction, because as I said before the whole point of the reveal scene is 1) revealing who's dead and 2) the emotional impact of that revelation. You've got to keep things clean and focused. As for showing a flashback for the "how"? What's the point? The horse has bolted, so to speak, and trying to shoehorn an "oh and by the way" scene into proceedings then buggers up the telling of the current episode's story. I think we got enough clues as to the "how" throughout the episode, particularly with the cold open - notice how when the cart was discovered the bodies weren't. So they didn't know who had been killed, and with no easy communication abilities nor fast transport, you can't really expect them to go charging about (at medium speed) to solve that mystery when who is dead isn't most important, what is most important is that there is some shit going down and they need to get some folks back to Hilltop to guard it. Sometimes you have to sacrifice some dotted "I"s and crossed "T"s in order to allow the story itself to flow properly. But, again, we saw enough glimpses to give us solid clues as to the "why". There was an element of opportunism, too - Alpha separated Ezekiel from the group, but she didn't end up sticking his head on a pike. No doubt the opportunity didn't arise. However, when Henry had to go and check those troublesome pipes that was a golden chance to kidnap him. They weren't taking people in broad daylight amidst all the people, they specifically chose their moments away from the masses, the masses which initially allowed them to infiltrate and start seeking their opportunities. We've also seen our seasoned survivors find themselves in deep shit before, so it's entirely believable - even at this point (if not more so as six years of relative peace will have likely softened some folks alertness) - that some folks could be unlucky. Alpha & Co aren't idiots either, they're a very crafty lot who already think about what their enemy are going to do (e.g. Beta figuring out Daryl's strategy in the tower block).

[Moon Knight]

Not to mention all the abducted were women and teenagers. The only men who were piked were killed during the rescue attempt.

[JDP]

Not to mention all the abducted were women and teenagers. The only men who were piked were killed during the rescue attempt. I don't see the likes of Tara, Enid and Siddiq being easily taken down. Plus we also see that the captured group put up a fight before being killed. These were people used to surviving under harsh conditions and had made it through a whole bunch of very bad stuff. In any event, there is no way that one person alone could have pulled this off. So it would be simply a matter of showing that Alpha did not infiltrate the fair alone but with several other members of her group. At least we would know for sure that the show is not proposing that Alpha pulled all this off on her own, which would be silly.

[Moon Knight]

I don't see the likes of Tara, Enid and Siddiq being easily taken down. Plus we also see that the captured group put up a fight before being killed. These were people used to surviving under harsh conditions and had made it through a whole bunch of very bad stuff. In any event, there is no way that one person alone could have pulled this off. So it would be simply a matter of showing that Alpha did not infiltrate the fair alone but with several other members of her group. At least we would know for sure that the show is not proposing that Alpha pulled all this off on her own, which would be silly. I could understand that. I can see Alpha, in disguise mind you, knock out Tara and Enid. Remember, they were taken during a fair in one of their sanctuary's. I can say the same for Siddiq. I also don’t think she worked alone. I guess I personally don’t need to see it.

[Neil]

The "how" is important. Without any explanation whatsoever regarding this detail, it certainly makes you wonder how could they pull this off. Kidnapping a bunch of people in broad daylight in such a crowded place is not something that is bound to easily go unnoticed. On top of that, most of these people were seasoned survivors, not exactly the easiest kind to abduct. Katelyn Nacon herself is not satisfied with how this was handled: https://www.cinemablend.com/televisi...n-out-of-story Katelyn Nacon was also frustrated that The Walking Dead didn't show how Alpha managed to kidnap the people in her group, including Enid -- whose mantra was always JSS, Just Survive Somehow. They could simply have shown that Alpha infiltrated the fair with a few also disguised confederates, for example, which would make the scenario a bit easier to swallow. I was confused by that too.

[MinionZombie]

I could understand that. I can see Alpha, in disguise mind you, knock out Tara and Enid. Remember, they were taken during a fair in one of their sanctuary's. I can say the same for Siddiq. I also don’t think she worked alone. I guess I personally don’t need to see it. Infiltration inside one of their santuaries wasn't high on their list of concerns. Indeed, they were more concerned about Hilltop being a target, so that's where their minds were at. Also, it shows the difference between hardened survivors who have spent the last six years inside walls with nice warm beds to sleep in vs hardened survivors who roam the wilderness wearing the flesh of the dead. The sheer ruthless animality of The Whisperers was summed up with that awesome scene where Alpha kills one of her followers because he happened to see Alpha shed a single tear.

[facestabber]

Once we saw the pike victims it was clear to me that alpha did not infiltrate alone. Also clear that confronting Lydia wasn’t her only mission. Aside from intel gathering she was a distraction. As Minion alluded(and even Rick Grimes in season 5) the walls made people weak. Kingdom got caught with their pants down. They obviously didn’t understand the enemy even though Lydia told them her mother is ruthless and relentless. They won’t be infiltrated again.

[Moon Knight]

Not to mention we saw just how Alpha can hold up her own, even against males as she strangled that one dude with her bare hands, and that was pre Alpha! People seem to downplay just how ruthless and skilled Alpha is.

[Neil]

Once we saw the pike victims it was clear to me that alpha did not infiltrate alone. Agreed, and a tight script would have been delivered that. ie: Her stopping to chat to another group at the fare, who quickly transpire to be whisperers.

[Moon Knight]

Agreed, and a tight script would have been delivered that. ie: Her stopping to chat to another group at the fare, who quickly transpire to be whisperers. I believe they just wanted to emulate the comic as close as possible.

[shootemindehead]

Just catching up on this now. I see they didn't have the balls to whack   Ezekiel. Sorry to see Tara go. Always liked her. And poor Enid. The rest were a bunch of nobodies I can't even remember the names of. But, it was largely the same in the comic. I think that's where I stopped reading it. Agree with everyone on Samantha Morton. She's a bit scary.