TWD 4x08 "Too Far Gone" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[zomtom]

One of the best episodes of the series, in my opinion. I even fell off of the damned chair!! Thank God that damned Gov. is dead (and he had better BE DEAD). I had a funny feeling Hershel was on his way out. I still feel bad about that. On the plus side, it seems he may be the only one from the core group to be killed. I mean there was a lot of speculation on quite a few characters being killed. I also don't think Judith is dead. There will be a reason for that blood in the carrier. AND after seeing that rat "spread eagle" on the wall, and Tyrese going on and on about a psychopath; I will once again proclaim my theory Carol is innocent of burning Karen and whoever. I made this prediction right after that episode and when it is finally revealed I am going to be on this site gloating like the fucker I am.

[JonOfTheShred]

Also notice the homage to NOTLD with "daughter" Meghan' hair band a la Barbra? Fulci vs. Romero! Shit, I re-watched it and caught it that time after you mentioned it. That is a pretty damn epic double homage. I'm rereading the 3 issues that this episode are based around (#46-#48) to refresh my memory on the differences. Makes me want to reread the entire comic series from issue 1. All Out War twice a month at this point is sweet, on that note. Two Walking Dead comics a month...they should keep up that pace.

[Legion2213]

Jesus Christ! Was that the best TWD episode ever? I can't think of a better one, I really can't. So much gut wrenching tragedy, so much action...Ricks speech, Herschel's death, the governors death, Daryl's last zombie kill with his empty assault rifle (I shouted "YES!!!" very loudly at that point), Lizzie becoming the full on killer, Bob coming good when it counted, poor Tara losing her shit, her girlfriend rolling through our group like a tank before she got shot by Lizzie, Lilly losing her daughter...The Governor has so much blood on his hands it's unreal. So much good stuff in this episode, I am still reeling. I LOVE this series, for every single fault, for every groan, there are a dozen things they get right, things that make me slobber like a starving man for the next episode... Oh, and God rest your soul Herschel...you will be missed on this show.

[kidgloves]

Michonne didn't show the Gov mercy, she left him to be eaten and/or turn like the Gov did to his enemies. Much much worse than killing him outright. Brilliant episode. The hokey bits were all related to the last 2 episodes just to rub in what a waste of time they were. Another here who doesn't think Judith is dead.

[Legion2213]

Further thoughts...when Lizzie said "let's go and get some guns" I thought, "oh dear, the kids will get into trouble and have to be rescued or start popping off and escalate any conflict between team prison and team governor"...I really didn't expect how it turned out! Judith will either turn up with Michonne, or Tara (I really hope Tara got away, she is obviously a good person and I felt really sorry for her when she saw through the Governor) The governor is one of the best villians I've ever seen on TV, David Morrisey brought real class to the character (Scott Wilson & David Morrisey are both huge losses to the show now that they are gone) Oh, and even though the mid season finale was absolutely top drawer, mid season breaks still suck donkey balls... - - - Updated - - - Also did NOT think his 'daughter' was gonna get taken out, and by a zombie that almost felt like an homage to Lucio Fulcis Zombi. Yeah, when people can pull away from a walker for more than a couple of seconds in this show, it's usually a pretty fair indicator that they will live, I expected mommy to come along just in the nick of time and cap that mud-man and generally save the day.

[MinionZombie]

HOLY. SHIT. That was a proper edge-of-your-seat episode. I was actually shaking with adrenaline I was so wrapped up in it. When TG got the sword through his chest I punched the air victoriously (aye, Michonne left him to die slowly ... but then Lilly had to get her revenge too ... would have been, perhaps, nice to see the bastard's head explode ) Well, I was half-expecting them to leave us on a mid-battle cliffhanger, but I'm glad they didn't. I reckon 4x09 will be thus (according to Volume 9 of the comics):   Rick and Carl alone in the wilderness ... it was some of the best TWD I've read ... I really like the idea of an episode purely about that father/son dynamic. As for poor little Judith ... well, there's just no way they'd show a dead baby ... they have to just suggest it ... but yeah, part of me thinks that maybe someone managed to save her ... but at the same time, such a reveal in season 4b would be a bit of a cheap shot after such a heart-wrenching scene between Rick and Carl discovering the baby seat. 3x04 was pretty goddamned rough, but blimey ... monstrous acting skills from Lincoln and Riggs! I knew Hershel was for-the-chop, but I still feel bad about it - such a good character and so well balanced as the wise old sage of the group ... he's the father of the group and now they're cast adrift. The CGI on his neck slice was a bit rubbish, I must say, but even still, the shock of losing Hershel was just so overwhelming ... so see the poor man crawl through the dirt and then to have TG hack his flippin' head off! Jesus Christ! I think they handled it well - not going for up close gore shots and keeping the focus on TG within the frame so we see just enough of poor old Hershel to fully understand and take a big old hit to the heart, but not so much that it feels exploitative. When the bullets started flying you could feel so much anger and grief and everything - absolutely bonkers - well done to all involved. The acting was tip-top in this episode. Loved it when Daryl arrow-killed that twat with a tank - I hated that character, that lousy no-good son of a bitch - screw you and your tank! I bet a few fangirls shat themselves when that walker was so close to Daryl, and I'm glad he made it - he doesn't deserve to go out in some punk-ass way - and using a skewered walker as a shield so he can toss grenades was feckin' awesome. SO MUCH going on in this episode ... that Lizzie's up to no good, creepy little weirdo ... but good on her for saving Tyreese ... but yeah, when she snuffed out Tara's g/f, damn, that was cold-blooded right there! Farewell Hershel, you shall be missed an awful lot. Oh yeah - did anyone spot Clara as a walker in the crowd that flooded into the prison? Nice touch there tying season 4a together. Aye - the rather Italian-looking walker that got Meghan ... kind of a mix between Fulci's Zombi as well as the likes of Burial Ground/The Zombie Dead ... a really cool moment. So much cold-blooded shit going on in this episode ... when TG held dead Meghan in his arms and then just put her down without a moment's hesitation, bloody nora! This was a proper jaw dropper of an episode. As for blowing up the prison - they only blow up a guard tower, but once it's all-out-war, then just massacre the place. It becomes a senseless slaughter driven by revenge and bloody-minded madness, and with the fences down it's useless anyway, so let's just blow the shit out of it. Wow ... so much to digest right now ... great episode and a great close to season 4A. I can't wait to hop onto my Sky+ and re-watch all eight in a big old marathon.

[Wyldwraith]

1) Don't believe Judith is dead. Maggie left her assault rifle with Beth, which made it clear (at least to me) that she was going all-in on rescuing Judith. Plus, as we beat into the ground after Lori's death, Walkers DON'T CARRY OFF their victims. Had a Walker scooped Judith out of that carseat, it would've at LEAST BEGAN eating her then and there, resulting in substantially more blood/gore in and around the car seat. The only other possibility I see, though the logistics seem to preclude the possibility, is   Meghan's mother snatched Judith as some kind of fucked up "replacement" for her lost daughter. I don't believe it to be so for a # of reasons, just throwing it out there. 2) Given the lack of modern trauma facilities, it would be extremely unrealistic if the Governor somehow survived Michonne's sword-thrust. At the very least he has a sucking chest wound, delivered by a blade that was anything BUT sterile. Which is assuming they copped out and the enraged mother chose not to end the life of the man who promised to keep them safe, then while going against her values created the situation that caused her daughter's death. THEN, when she brokenheartedly carries the body to the Gov, he simply and rather callously shot the dead girl in the head without so much as a look of shared grief for Lily. I'm TRULY HOPING that's the end of the Governor, but I fear the writers in this case. I too was quite surprised that Michonne didn't take his head with a follow-up blow for what he did to Herschel. For her own revenge's sake I could see her leaving him for the Walkers, but once he killed Herschel, and with HER SWORD, I would've thought Michonne would have wanted to be able to tell Maggie she did unto the Governor as the Gov did unto Maggie's father. 3) I too thought it was cool when Lizzie saved Tyreese, but I'd like you ladies and gents to recall that a # of us have been convinced all along that Lizzie killed Karen and David and Carol took the fall for it. Notice when she persuaded the other kids to go get guns she recited that statement of Carol's about them "Needing to be strong"....which I believe became the dark twisted seed that was fertilized in Lizzie's mind by her feeling it was her responsibility to keep her late father from reanimating and being unable to do it. (Which is not to say Lizzie wasn't already a very psychologically unstable child, what with her weird fixation on Walkers and such....but I believe the incident of her father's death was the "Trigger/Stresser" that blasted the cracks in her psyche wide open. 4) While interested to see what the group does in the wake of the Prison's loss, three things didn't ring true for me. One being the Governor's failure to understand the conflict he'd orchestrated was likely to become a scenario of mutually assured destruction, the Governor's failure to understand that demolishing the fences would destroy the Prison's value (unless all that supposed caring about his new little family unit and group was just BS to gain footsoldiers to enact his revenge)....and then the way that they mirrored the fall of Herschel's farm with people getting left behind/separated, only moreso. I get it, and it's completely plausible given what was going down...I just question why they'd do it again from a writing standpoint. All that said, it was a great episode and a very intense way to go into the mid-season break without a contrived cliffhanger. I'll be sorry to see Herschel gone, but am OK with it assuming they dont give in to the worst kind of temptation and create a fiat-escape and recovery of the Governor. Probably one of the best TWD episodes ever, and DEFINITELY the best "Cliffhanger" to end on. Woulda liked to see Carl and Rick able to scoop up some replacement firearms from their Bin-O-Guns on the way out, but meh. A very tragic, very tense, and very action-packed episode. P.S: When Daryl crossbowed the tank commander with the gall to try and surrender I actually yelled "HELL YEA!" That guy made it abundantly clear he wasn't at all concerned with right and wrong until he was at the mercy of one of the people he was completely unconflicted about MURDERING to steal their home. Glad Daryl killed him via chest shot. Let the bastard Walk.

[Legion2213]

I bet a few fangirls shat themselves when that walker was so close to Daryl Shut your filthy whore mouth!!!

[bassman]

MZ - the comic reference you mention....the previews shown during Talking Dead show that it's definitely happening. Including a few scenes torn directly from the comic. Anyway, good episode. Once I saw The Governor take Michonne and Hershel in the opening scene, I knew Hershel was going to get... Comic Book Spoiler:   "Tyreese'd" ...but it was great anyway. Hershel's little moment of reflection and respect for how Rick had evolved made is death all the more pleasing. Like he had done his job and was ready to go. I have to admit that I cheered when The Governor said "Kill em all". I would've preferred if he was on the tank and yelled it like the panel from the comic, but it was still a great nerd moment.

[AcesandEights]

three things didn't ring true for me. One being the Governor's failure to understand the conflict he'd orchestrated was likely to become a scenario of mutually assured destruction, the Governor's failure to understand that demolishing the fences would destroy the Prison's value (unless all that supposed caring about his new little family unit and group was just BS to gain footsoldiers to enact his revenge)....and then the way that they mirrored the fall of Herschel's farm with people getting left behind/separated, only moreso. I get it, and it's completely plausible given what was going down...I just question why they'd do it again from a writing standpoint. Well, the Governor is crazy and things had escalated too far at a certain point for himself or a majority of his followers to back down. The Governor wanted the prison, sure, however he wanted a lot of things, but when the shit hit the fan they had to use what cards they'd thrown on the table. I know what you mean about splitting the group yet again, though it is a believable outcome. And speaking of them being split off.. MZ - the comic reference you mention....the previews shown during Talking Dead show that it's definitely happening. Including a few scenes torn directly from the comic. If they go for the Father/Son quiet time follow up episode after the mid-season break, I wonder how well it will be handled. I notice a lot of people don't like the more introspective episodes (which I agree have sometimes been a bit of a hash due to writing and pacing). Especially when Daryl is on your side. Who said they wished him gone? I and at least a few other people, though he has been a lot better this season than he has in the past (in my opinion, anyway). He's just too perfect, too cool, never misses and reality warps around him to allow Daryl to accomplish too many improbable feats of 'awesomesauce'. Plus, he has Bieber hair. But like I said, when the scripts are balanced and the cast is getting somewhat equal attention, they don't have to lean too heavily on King Daryl, and the writers have been a lot more grounded in their use of his redneck commando skills this season (except for last night).

[babomb]

The Gov was listed in "Memorium" on TD, but Judith wasn't. I think that says it all. I don't remember there ever being a time that someone was listed in memorium but didn't really die, or vice versa.

[bassman]

The Gov was listed in "Memorium" on TD, but Judith wasn't. I think that says it all. I don't remember there ever being a time that someone was listed in memorium but didn't really die, or vice versa. One thing I noticed about that....wasn't Judith buckled into her seat when the kids carried her out? It's unbuckled when Rick and Carl look at it empty. It's possible, but walkers eating a strapped-in baby probably wouldn't accidentally release those types of straps. Especially all three release points, one of which requires coordination with two hands. They'd just eat around the straps. So maybe that's a small hint someone got her. I do remember seeing Tyreese running away from that area as the "Lori Bridge" explodes....

[sandrock74]

The Gov was listed in "Memorium" on TD, but Judith wasn't. I think that says it all. I don't remember there ever being a time that someone was listed in memorium but didn't really die, or vice versa. I was going to bring up that point about the Governor, but you beat me to it. He was officially listed as dead, so he's gone. I honestly think Judith is dead as well...I think they are just trying not to exploit the death of a baby, you know? The only "good" way they could deal with her death is off camera. I think that was traumatizing enough to many viewers if my facebook feed is any indication. Man, what a great episode! Hershel will be missed.

[Mr. Clean]

Daryl taking out the tank was pretty awesome. The whole thing made me laugh too.

[MinionZombie]

Probably one of the best TWD episodes ever, and DEFINITELY the best "Cliffhanger" to end on. Woulda liked to see Carl and Rick able to scoop up some replacement firearms from their Bin-O-Guns on the way out, but meh. A very tragic, very tense, and very action-packed episode. P.S: When Daryl crossbowed the tank commander with the gall to try and surrender I actually yelled "HELL YEA!" That guy made it abundantly clear he wasn't at all concerned with right and wrong until he was at the mercy of one of the people he was completely unconflicted about MURDERING to steal their home. Glad Daryl killed him via chest shot. Let the bastard Walk. After the flack they got for 3x16 (even though I liked that episode quite a bit), I think they were making damn sure they pleased the fans this time around ... I did wonder if they would pull a fast one on us and leave us hanging mid-battle, but thankfully they didn't and avoided dragging the inevitable out unnecessarily. Also, damn straight, I hated that tank commander guy - a complete feckin' bastard. I was so pleased when Daryl bolted him - and, if you think about it, that's quite a moment for Daryl too. He's leave the guy to get munched on and, probably, return as a walker ... that's pretty cold, but entirely understandable. Daryl's never really had to do that kind of thing before - sure, he's battled and killed before, but that's a little different. Here the guy was surrendering (although it was not to be believed) and the heat of the battle had died down a bit ... well done Daryl! Shut your filthy whore mouth!!! MZ - the comic reference you mention....the previews shown during Talking Dead show that it's definitely happening. Including a few scenes torn directly from the comic. Hershel's little moment of reflection and respect for how Rick had evolved made is death all the more pleasing. Like he had done his job and was ready to go. 1) AWESOME!!!!!! I've not seen Talking Dead yet, so I look forward to seeing the preview scene. 2) Yeah - there was that moment of peace ... it was nice, but all the time I'm just wincing as I'm waiting for The Governor to ruin Christmas. Beautifully played by Scott Wilson though. Hershel went out like a man who didn't let this horrid post-outbreak world destroy who he was. The Gov was listed in "Memorium" on TD, but Judith wasn't. I think that says it all. I don't remember there ever being a time that someone was listed in memorium but didn't really die, or vice versa. Interesting... Perhaps they left Judith out to leave people guessing until February ... or maybe, yeah, she could be alive somewhere. One thing I noticed about that....wasn't Judith buckled into her seat when the kids carried her out? It's unbuckled when Rick and Carl look at it empty. It's possible, but walkers eating a strapped-in baby probably wouldn't accidentally release those types of straps. Especially all three release points, one of which requires coordination with two hands. They'd just eat around the straps. So maybe that's a small hint someone got her. I do remember seeing Tyreese running away from that area as the "Lori Bridge" explodes.... They'd never show a dead, half-eaten baby, but on the other hand there isn't that much blood either. We see Tyreese running off with Lizzie & Pals, and they had Judith last (the little baby didn't look best pleased to be getting jostled around quite so much when Lizzie and her sister were struggling to carry her, lol) ... so perhaps he's got Judith. Right, so ... what groups have we got. 1) The bus crowd, including Glenn. 2) Rick & Carl. 3) Michonne??? Off looking for her sword no doubt ... but then what? 4) Tyreese, Lizzie, the kids and maybe Judith. 5) Sasha, Maggie, and Bob. 6) Daryl & Beth. I imagine some of them will quickly find each other, but yeah, I'm so happy we're going to get some time with just Rick & Carl. Lincoln & Riggs have played the father/son dynamic so well over these eight episodes - just brilliantly ... I absolutely cannot wait for February to rock up. Just thinking about Hershel's death - I remember them saying with 3x02 that violence against humans is an area which can be troublesome, but they were allowed to show Hershel's leg getting taken off because it was to save his life. Now, here he doesn't get beheaded in one-whack, so it's just enough to show a mortal wound ... but then when TG finishes him off it's all on David Morrissey instead, and then they wisely show Hershel's dead pieces out-of-focus ... even if they would have been okay to show such a thing, it's good that they didn't, we see plenty to know what happened and we take a big enough punch to the gut for it to work. Showing his decapitation would have been too much, for sure. ... A bumper edition of memes today - lots to work with in this episode after a tricky couple of weeks. TWD 4x08 Memes: http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2013/...dead-4x08.html   Yeah, I'm not much good at PhotoShopping ... particularly as I'm not even using PhotoShop to make these.