Ok-- if JC (James Cameron) found J.C....

[capncnut]

Christians will never be "put in their place", as you put it. That's why they call it faith. Yeah Bass, I agree. Christians are incredibly thick skinned.

[EvilNed]

Even if it hasn't been proven, evolution sure **** put a huge dent in religion (including christianity), to believe anything else is folly. It DID put christianity in their place, wether you want to accept it or not. The same way Martin Luther put the pope in his place and caused a whole new spring of christianity. Sure, neither the christians or the pope stopped believing what they did, but their power was severly weakened and they've had to live with it ever since.

[tju1973]

I wouldn't say Abe was as much of a hero as a man of his times. Back then war was much more accepted than it is now. If France and Germany went to war NOW, everyone would be shocked. But if they had went to war 150 years ago, people would just have shrugged their shoulders and said "What else is new?" A split of the USA (to some degree) is unavoidable, due to it's vastly conflicting ideas. I don't really think Abe was that much of a hero. Just a man of his times. "A few states defected, so I'm going after them!". The Confederates were also men of their times, which is why they had slavery. Now with Afterthought, I think we can all say that we're thankful that Abe did what he did. Otherwise it would have taken longer to get equal rights for all races. But a split of the US will happen sooner or later anyway. Probably not in 10 or 20 years. But in 50? Who knows. Christians, and other religious people, simply turn the other cheek whenever scientific fact is shown to them. You all know it to be true. I saw a program on Creationism vs. Evolution and it was just hilarious how dumb the christians were. No offense to anyone there, but their kind of arguments were just so ****ing stupid. They refused to even look at the facts. Whatever--- I would rather split the US than be in the EU and be France and Germany's whipping boys. Just remember-- half the US--- heck even a quarter of the US-- heck even some single states would still kick the crap out of 100% of the world. I don't care if you are Christian, Athiests, Muslim or you worship the fn wall.. I think the possibility that Jesus was just a man and had a kid of his own is interesting. Aso, before you pass unifomed judgement on Abe-- maybe you should read and study him. He was a man-- and dare I say a great man. This is coming from someone who was raised to hate the Yankees... FYI One of the greatest American Generals of the time was Will Sherman-- he fought war how it was supposed to be fought. He beat the South-- he burned a swath to the sea-- he made us know that we would not win--- Sort of what the US/Allies did to Germany and Japan in WWII...

[coma]

Whatever--- I would rather split the US than be in the EU and be France and Germany's whipping boys. Just remember-- half the US--- heck even a quarter of the US-- heck even some single states would still kick the crap out of 100% of the world. ..... Aso, before you pass unifomed judgement on Abe-- maybe you should read and study him. He was a man-- and dare I say a great man. This is coming from someone who was raised to hate the Yankees... FYI One of the greatest American Generals of the time was Will Sherman-- he fought war how it was supposed to be fought. He beat the South-- he burned a swath to the sea-- he made us know that we would not win--- Sort of what the US/Allies did to Germany and Japan in WWII... Texas, Ca and New York are bigger, have more population and bigger GNP (I know, not national) than many countries. It's nice to not have to tow the line for anybody. I read a lot of Abe's speeches and they revealed a lot about him. He was extremely intelligent and complex. If you look at pictures he aged about 30 years in appearance from the war. In the end it was the right thing to do but he was hated by many Northerners and Southerners alike at the time. The draft was hugely unpopular (to say the least). I think the idea of a future split in the US is niether inevitable nor even likely. The divisions are generated by politics. It we had 4 or 5 parties like most other countries it would not seem so divided. I hate the yankees too. Actually I think it's unfortunate that you were raised to actually hate a large part of you own country. If you came up here you would encounter little or no predjudice, maybe curiosity about where your from. I have not had that experience in the South and Midwest in my travels however, sadly. I never understood that hostility because I am smiley and friendly when I'm in a "foreign" state. Never been to TX, but my bro lives there and he likes it alot. When I hear that sort of thing I have to admit it bothers me alot. I think we are more alike than we are different. Stonewall Jackson was a great general and a very principled man. If he didnt get killed the outcome might have been very different. I have often imagined a US with a CSA, Republic Of Texas and a Union. Would a union include The west coast or would it have been split by an independent Midwest? Would they have eventually recombined but with a weaker federal control? As far as Jesus. To know he existed (because I am sometimes doubtful) would be interesting for me, but I have no personal/Spiritual stake in it. It neither validates nor invalidates any of my beliefs.

[tju1973]

Texas, Ca and New York are bigger, have more population and bigger GNP (I know, not national) than many countries. It's nice to not have to tow the line for anybody. I read a lot of Abe's speeches and they revealed a lot about him. He was extremely intelligent and complex. If you look at pictures he aged about 30 years in appearance from the war. In the end it was the right thing to do but he was hated by many Northerners and Southerners alike at the time. The draft was hugely unpopular (to say the least). I think the idea of a future split in the US is niether inevitable nor even likely. The divisions are generated by politics. It we had 4 or 5 parties like most other countries it would not seem so divided. I hate the yankees too. Actually I think it's unfortunate that you were raised to actually hate a large part of you own country. If you came up here you would encounter little or no predjudice, maybe curiosity about where your from. I have not had that experience in the South and Midwest in my travels however, sadly. I never understood that hostility because I am smiley and friendly when I'm in a "foreign" state. Never been to TX, but my bro lives there and he likes it alot. When I hear that sort of thing I have to admit it bothers me alot. I think we are more alike than we are different. Stonewall Jackson was a great general and a very principled man. If he didnt get killed the outcome might have been very different. I have often imagined a US with a CSA, Republic Of Texas and a Union. Would a union include The west coast or would it have been split by an independent Midwest? Would they have eventually recombined but with a weaker federal control? As far as Jesus. To know he existed (because I am sometimes doubtful) would be interesting for me, but I have no personal/Spiritual stake in it. It neither validates nor invalidates any of my beliefs. Just because I was raised that way, does not mean I am that way. I was also raised by a man who never referred to a black person by anything respectful.... If Texas tried to break away-- or the South-- or the North-- or California-- or any state or group, I would be one of the first to put the "rebel scum" down. I think that the adage of "a house divided cannot stand" rings true even today. I believe that if the South would have retained their independence after the Civil War, then Great Britain would have eventually moved against part or all of the remenants of the country-- Mexico may have regained pars of Texas-- heck even Germany may have jumped on us. By us having a Civil War when we did, we probably made us stronger in the long run. I totally agree with you on the Abe part-- I saw the History channel special(s) on him. He literally looked like he aged 30-40 years in 4 short years. He felt every loss, and probably welcomed the assasins bullet when it came. He was a man with peronal failures--- but his faith (of which I sometimes wished I had) and convictions shaped his actions, and like I said-- he let the US be destroyed to save it. Villified by many-- a hero to me.

[coma]

Just because I was raised that way, does not mean I am that way. I was also raised by a man who never referred to a black person by anything respectful.... I was very careful the way I worded the comment because I didnt want to be rude at all. I am glad it wasnt taken that way. My fathers the same way. The only advice he ever gave me was bad. didnt see him much growing up. At the time it sucked but now I see it was def for the best. I have never met anyone so casually racist. in words and deeds. My Mom is super nice, thank god. If Texas tried to break away-- or the South-- or the North-- or California-- or any state or group, I would be one of the first to put the "rebel scum" down. I think that the adage of "a house divided cannot stand" rings true even today. I believe that if the South would have retained their independence after the Civil War, then Great Britain would have eventually moved against part or all of the remenants of the country-- Mexico may have regained pars of Texas-- heck even Germany may have jumped on us. By us having a Civil War when we did, we probably made us stronger in the long run. I totally agree with you on the Abe part-- I saw the History channel special(s) on him. He literally looked like he aged 30-40 years in 4 short years. He felt every loss, and probably welcomed the assasins bullet when it came. He was a man with peronal failures--- but his faith (of which I sometimes wished I had) and convictions shaped his actions, and like I said-- he let the US be destroyed to save it. Villified by many-- a hero to me. As a divided country we would have been totally vulnerable to infiltration. I considered the idea of Mexico annexing Texas. TX is tough, but Mexico used to be pretty tough too back in the day. I dont think Abe thought he had a choice. He was thinking Big Picture and the future. His assassination was really bad because Johnson (his vice president) let reconstruction be dismantled leading to Jim Crow. Imagine a US where Blacks took their rightfil place as full citizens. There would be very little of the problems we have now. Civil Rights in 1865 not 1965. Big Difference. Johnson got impeached (the first) becasue of that. Strange to me how the current Commander in Chief has aged normally though a major domestic attack and 2 wars which we seem to be losing. Usually a pres even in a peaceful era ages due to the weight of basically leading the world(supposedly). He has been pres about 6 years and looks almost the same.

[tju1973]

I was very careful the way I worded the comment because I didnt want to be rude at all. I am glad it wasnt taken that way. My fathers the same way. The only advice he ever gave me was bad. didnt see him much growing up. At the time it sucked but now I see it was def for the best. I have never met anyone so casually racist. in words and deeds. My Mom is super nice, thank god. As a divided country we would have been totally vulnerable to infiltration. I considered the idea of Mexico annexing Texas. TX is tough, but Mexico used to be pretty tough too back in the day. I dont think Abe thought he had a choice. He was thinking Big Picture and the future. His assassination was really bad because Johnson (his vice president) let reconstruction be dismantled leading to Jim Crow. Imagine a US where Blacks took their rightfil place as full citizens. There would be very little of the problems we have now. Civil Rights in 1865 not 1965. Big Difference. Johnson got impeached (the first) becasue of that. Strange to me how the current Commander in Chief has aged normally though a major domestic attack and 2 wars which we seem to be losing. Usually a pres even in a peaceful era ages due to the weight of basically leading the world(supposedly). He has been pres about 6 years and looks almost the same. and I voted for him twice.. You know-- he never wanted the job. It would be nice to see what would have happened if Abe woud have lived--- I think we would be much more united today than we are. If there was ever a Spicoli for pres, then I fear that George would be it...

[coma]

and I voted for him twice.. You know-- he never wanted the job. It would be nice to see what would have happened if Abe woud have lived--- I think we would be much more united today than we are. If there was ever a Spicoli for pres, then I fear that George would be it... I believe we would be much more united with Abe. Might've been the 1st 3 term. The fact that he didnt make the South pay retributions was important and didnt prosecute anyone simply for Cessession. Spiccolli I dont want to comment too much on ol' GW. This is such an interesting conversation and I dont want to ruin it, but I cant resist the occasional comment

[Danny]

Even if it hasn't been proven, evolution sure **** put a huge dent in religion (including christianity), to believe anything else is folly. It DID put christianity in their place, wether you want to accept it or not. The same way Martin Luther put the pope in his place and caused a whole new spring of christianity. Sure, neither the christians or the pope stopped believing what they did, but their power was severly weakened and they've had to live with it ever since. see that the biggest problem i got with things like intelligent design, evolution has been proven if you go to like the natural history muesum and look a tthe fossil samples from a certain area, look at say, a lizard, and keep checking a fossil of the same species from the same area hundreds of thousands of years later and your gonna see change as it adapts, and eventually, its gonna be not much like what it used to be, its changed to adapt to its surroundings, its skeleton, even minutely after thousands and thousands of eyasr will be different, thats evolution, hell id like to ask an intelligetn design "teacher" were he thinks birds come from. the most obvious thing that i think disproves the bible is all the people reading this, i am an englishman with family in this country going back almost 700 years of recorded family history, and some from finland so i goes without saying that i am white, with pale skin. and correct me after if im wrong on anything, but ive seen and read a lot about how the homo sapien species as it is now first appeared in africa, now the human body produces pigments under the skin, both "black" and "white", this is used to darken the skin to block out the sun, cus if your a hareless animal in africa, its gonna get hot ,thats a given, and when we headed out to spread across the globe a lot headed up into europe and eastward, and a lot whent west, were it is colder and much less sunny so the black pigment wasnt needed as much, so after so many generations, like there ancestors had been genetically predetermined to darken the skin to protect from the african heat, the colou of our skin paled since we had settled up north as...i dunno maybe cavemen by that time who didnt need the protection of the darker pigment and over the years there decendants were born in regions like england and france with paler skin becuase of it. thats "evolution" right there, adapting genetically to suit the species enviroment. thought that said that could be taken two ways: 1.proof we all come from the same place and that minute evolution happened to seperate our species into different "Races" since were all the same species but like many animals our appearance differs from region to region. or 2. but wouldnt that prove that everone started out the same?, so is it still plausible that since human life comes from the same place that there may hav been some guiding hand in all this? guess you can take that one either way, my point is not everything is clear cut, as science develops we learn more that disproves religion, now haveing faith is a needed thing for some people, its gets them from day to day, but trying to disprove evolution, just like the idea jesus may have had a kid does not disprove christianity, it just means a rethink, i mean what could have given life the potential for evolution, possibly a higher power, but becuase it doesnt fit in with a book written almost 2000 years ago people will argue gainst it with a zealous fury, hell when the davinchi code came out there was some nun in england that sat in front of a church for days in protest "of this heresy", but if there is a god, surely as your species evolved you would have to change your beliefs, cus after 2000 years not all the same things apply becuase we arent the same culture as back then we've evolved, so to speak.

[EvilNed]

Whatever--- I would rather split the US than be in the EU and be France and Germany's whipping boys. Just remember-- half the US--- heck even a quarter of the US-- heck even some single states would still kick the crap out of 100% of the world. That is such huge patriotic bull****. You really think the US could win a conventional land war against China and it's allies? That's just pure ignorance. I'm not saying that they'd lose either, but it would not be a landslide victory for the US by a long shot and chances are they'd get beaten. Big time. And that's good for you. I'd rather be in the EU than in the ideologically backwards US. Which, by the way, is why I'm in the EU in the FIRST place considering I AM a US citizen. So I guess it works out for both of us.

[tju1973]

That is such huge patriotic bull****. You really think the US could win a conventional land war against China and it's allies? That's just pure ignorance. I'm not saying that they'd lose either, but it would not be a landslide victory for the US by a long shot and chances are they'd get beaten. Big time. And that's good for you. I'd rather be in the EU than in the ideologically backwards US. Which, by the way, is why I'm in the EU in the FIRST place considering I AM a US citizen. So I guess it works out for both of us. Then stay there with your Cuban cigars and pennywhistle dreams... I never said a war with China would be conventional. Yes though, our conventional forces would definatly thin the herd out some-- Their navy or airforce? Nope-- we would beat them there. Our ground forces? See above-- China would have an issue getting to us. I think in the long run they would go Nuke or chemical-- and then we unleash. Would we both lose? Probably-- but they definatly would not win. So now your true color comes out-- you have an axe to grind with the US-- being someone who is a citizen but took off Johnny Depp style-- to each his own... I am no fan of the French, but if I was a French citizen, I would definatly fight and support my own country-- obe wellbe..

[EvilNed]

I never said a war with China would be conventional. Yes though, our conventional forces would definatly thin the herd out some-- Their navy or airforce? Nope-- we would beat them there. Our ground forces? See above-- China would have an issue getting to us. I think in the long run they would go Nuke or chemical-- and then we unleash. Would we both lose? Probably-- but they definatly would not win. Uhm, alright. Now let's not forget their ALLIES North Korea, and the US would be up against the largest army in the world. In a prolonged conflict, it's not who has the fanciest planes, it's usually the ones with the largest manpower that wins. Especially if one side outnumbers the other by this much. And guess what, you loose. Now of course if the US can use it's allies, we have a new World War, but the US doesn't get too. Because YOU said that the US doesn't even need all it's states to win to 100%. Which is of course just patriotic exageration. So the US could win. With it's allies. But alone? Nope. Which is a very unlikely scenario anyway. So now your true color comes out-- you have an axe to grind with the US-- being someone who is a citizen but took off Johnny Depp style-- So now your true color comes out-- you have an axe to grind with the EU-- being someone who slams them whenever they can with little or no real facts behind. That kinda argument sounds kinda stupid, doesn't it? Now go fight your wars, bomb the civilians, ruin your economy and shoot your guns while we here in the EU kick back and enjoy some sunshine. Generalization, I know, but seeing as that's all you do I don't think you'll mind. I don't know why you're being so ****ing hostile just because I pointed out the obvious that the US is such a divided country that it's going to collapse in a few decades. Did you wish for this peaceful period to last forever? Get real. Think Russia is going to last? China? Nope.

[tju1973]

Uhm, alright. Now let's not forget their ALLIES North Korea, and the US would be up against the largest army in the world. In a prolonged conflict, it's not who has the fanciest planes, it's usually the ones with the largest manpower that wins. Especially if one side outnumbers the other by this much. And guess what, you loose. Now of course if the US can use it's allies, we have a new World War, but the US doesn't get too. Because YOU said that the US doesn't even need all it's states to win to 100%. Which is of course just patriotic exageration. So the US could win. With it's allies. But alone? Nope. Which is a very unlikely scenario anyway. So now your true color comes out-- you have an axe to grind with the EU-- being someone who slams them whenever they can with little or no real facts behind. That kinda argument sounds kinda stupid, doesn't it? Now go fight your wars, bomb the civilians, ruin your economy and shoot your guns while we here in the EU kick back and enjoy some sunshine. Generalization, I know, but seeing as that's all you do I don't think you'll mind. I don't know why you're being so ****ing hostile just because I pointed out the obvious that the US is such a divided country that it's going to collapse in a few decades. Did you wish for this peaceful period to last forever? Get real. Think Russia is going to last? China? Nope. Yes I have an axe to grind with the EU-- mainly because the majority of the countries have an axe to grind with us (the US). Our armies and aid were great when it was used to give many of them their freedom against the Axis-- and to protect their freedom against the Soviets. Now they don't want it--fine-- Yes we are the only nation right now that can send its military anywhere, and anytime, and not have to ask. The US will not collapse in a few decades-- neither will China...The EU -- who knows/ It is too new to really know. By joining the EU you (the nations in it) have given away parts of their independance for a few Euros-- WHy do you think the UK and a few other EU nations haven't converted over-- Do the math-- One good test for the EU, and that little "thing" called a Union, will go adios... I do not support any "One World Government"-- that is what it boils down to.

[coma]

The US will not collapse in a few decades "Thats not all Suckers have to gall to pray and plan for our downfall" The US has bulit in stability. Thats why the gov is so slow. Takes a while to ruin and a while to fix. Through all of the Us's trials, the gov has remained stable for the most part. We may fall from World Dominance but we will not collapse as a society any time soon. Unlike almost every other country we are bound by an ideal not ethnicity. When things get bad here the people get together often. Europe has always had hot wars internally even to very recently. There hasnt been a hot war in US borders in 150 years. The Mexican American war was very insifnificant, so much so it barely counts and that was about 100 years ago. Ned, you're comments do not reflect reality. And thats not uber patriotism, its just the way it is.

[EvilNed]

Tju, if that is what you believe then so be it. But it's pure ignorance to think that the US, China, Russia or any large country can remain stabilized for a long period of time. It just doesn't happen. But please, give me a historical example of where this HAS happened, and maybe you can persuade me. Of course, the EU will eventually dissolve as well. It's simple progress. It is the way of the world. And since both the US and EU are so radically different within their own borders, this may be taken to the extreme where a split is absolutly necessary. Yes I have an axe to grind with the EU-- mainly because the majority of the countries have an axe to grind with us (the US). Our armies and aid were great when it was used to give many of them their freedom against the Axis-- and to protect their freedom against the Soviets. Problem here is the American ignorance to suggest that just because they did people favours back in the day, they expect these countries to become their slaves, give up their freedom and obey the US will. Even if the US states ridiculously idiotic demands, such as the invasion of Iraq. By joining the EU you (the nations in it) have given away parts of their independance for a few Euros-- Countries are, of course, free to drop out whenever they wish. Please provide a list of the countries that have done so, so far. States in the US, however, cannot drop out should they wish. Right now there is no need for them to do so, but there will come a time for everything. The dissolve of the US. The dissolve of the EU. The dissolve of everything we know today. Ned, you're comments do not reflect reality. I'm sorry, but I am the only one who takes the human-, social- and historical perspective into this relation. If that doesn't reflect reality, I don't know what does. If you deny that any large political entity cannot stand the test of time, you're denying history. If you have something against the EU, that's your beef. Infact, I'm glad you do because there are so many people who hate the US out there that a certain balance has to be kept. Also another point, the next superpower is not China. It's India and the EU. China kills off 90% of their baby girls, and will reach an economic crisis within 30-50 years. India, however, does not. PS. I think the US and the EU has it's ups and downs. The good thing about the US are mostly the people, but lately never the goverment. The good thing about the EU is that it's encouraging massive economic growth, as well as diplomaticly encouraging other countries to "straighten up" in order to join. Bad things about the EU is the ****ing non-sensical laws it passes, such as that strawberries have to be a certain size. I'm not joking, I actually think there is a law for that.