TWD 3x07 "When The Dead Come Knocking" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[rgc2005]

I like the quote about Michonne from the Talking Dead. "Information Is Power". Right now Michonne is just observing to determine if she can trust the group. Rick is finally back from Psycho-Town. Did anybody catch the Carl vs Michonne eye frakking each other in the prison? Carol, It is so nice to have her back and she showed her acting chops with Rick. How about the "Zombie Hermit Buffet" followed by an instant cut to the KFC commercial? Somebody is getting a call from the KFC ad department..... Glenn is now a 110% certified bad azz. No more Jackie Chan / Short Round crap. Maggie's grit during the scene with the Governor was amazing. I have a feeling that had the Governor sensed any weakness at all from her the comic book storyline would have played out. FYI, that act is really all about power and the ability to inflict humiliation. Even though he did not 'legally' do it he did prove to Maggie that he could if he wanted and as long as she is there the possibility exists. Having dealt with dozens of victims over the years I know the psychological trauma lasts way longer than someone who has never been a victim can fathom. Overall, this is a great episode that is emotionally draining and almost in line with the tone of its source.

[Wyldwraith]

Maggie disappointed me, Don't get me wrong, I UNDERSTAND the temptation, and I UNDERSTAND how shaken what had just happened with the Governor left her...but she HAD to know that if this man is willing to lop off her boyfriend's hand just to squash her defiance, everything he said previously is BS, and he means their group lethal harm. Would many people fold under the Gun Pointed at a Loved One hostage situation. Sure. But in that context, with no seeming hope of escape and knowing you're in the hands of complete sociopaths, all Maggie did was delay Glenn's execution. With no reason to believe Rick & Co. would a) know where they ended up, or b) Try to launch a high-risk rescue mission on an armed/walled compound versus people with AUTOMATIC WEAPONS...holding onto that information as long as possible is your only way to guarantee you see another sunrise...and furthermore it protects your SO as well, because the Governor would know once he's killed the one, the other will resist him to the point of death and beyond out of hate and spite if nothing else. I've never believed in the "Give the maniac control of who lives and dies to buy my loved one five more seconds of life. I look at it like "My loved one wouldn't want me to ensure I died AS WELL." Interesting episode, agree that Michonne is nothing but a caricature stuck on repeat atm. I could see what happened actually happening in the real world with a certain fundamental weakness in a certain % of Potential Hostages. It just annoyed me that the Governor was able to compel the information from one of them on what was a bluff for all she knew. Like everyone else I'm more interested in the Mid-Season Finale...but I have a REALLY BAD feeling that we're going to see 0% of importance accomplished, and then a HUGE cliffhanger which will have to play out once the 2nd half picks up, allowing all the interesting resolutions to the events in motion to actually happen. No WAY will they actually allow the raid by Rick & Co. to progress far enough to a) Spring their people, b) Decide things tween Merle and Daryl, or c) Do anything interesting with Andrea once she FINALLY (hopefully) realizes all is not as she wishes it to be. Instead I see them breaching the perimeter, killing a few of the Gov's nameless flunkies, and getting pinned down if not forced into a surrender or a situation indicating something like that is imminent, then cliffhanger. So in a way it just kinda leaves the mid-season finale as just another episode. Looking forward to it? Sure. Expecting any major plot advancement? Not one iota. Note: Not applicable to this particular hostage situation, but with the classic guy with gun leveled at loved one demanding you lower your gun, I'm a shoot them while they're making the demand and risk it sort. Rendering yourself helpless before a monster is a good way to end up worse, WAY worse than dead. Just my .02, but thought it'd help clarify my disappointment statement. Once you break, you've removed the challenge in the mind of a monster. Many a Vietnam Vet survived for YEARS refusing to sign false confessions naming them war criminals. It became an obsession with at least two documented N. Vietnamese camp commandants. Bought them years of hell on Earth, but their buddies who signed were shot/hung and otherwise disposed of for the sick kicks of those in power. If you only have ONE bargaining chip, you cant give it up. Else you're literally throwing yourself on the mercy of the merciless.

[babomb]

Not only that, she also throws her dad and little sister to the wolves by telling where they are.

[Zombie Snack]

Female viewers maybe? Rape is a touchy subject. And let me apologize in advance for posting from my phone. I see my posts after and wonder how I butchered it. I think that may be part of the reason for sure. My wife and daughter are as open minded and free spirited as any women I know, and are in no way politically correct or easily offended prudes, but as we were watching last night, as the scene started to play out, I started feeling a little uncomfortable with what was about to happen. I was watching my wife and daughters reactions and they were sold 100% that the gov is a total fucking scumbag who needs to die.

[facestabber]

I think that may be part of the reason for sure. My wife and daughter are as open minded and free spirited as any women I know, and are in no way politically correct or easily offended prudes, but as we were watching last night, as the scene started to play out, I started feeling a little uncomfortable with what was about to happen. I was watching my wife and daughters reactions and they were sold 100% that the gov is a total fucking scumbag who needs to die. I myself felt very uneasy with that scene. I respect the power and trauma of what was implied to take place. Add that I care about the characters and that was a nerve racking scene. Now on to Merle. Let me say I miss the days when Shane was the antagonist. Merle and the Gov have taken the term douchbag to completely new levels. Leaving Glen to die like that, strapped to a chair, was beyond evil. I felt sick to my stomach when Merle let loose thinking of the horribly violent end Glen was about to meet. Wyldwraith is probably correct that not much resolution will be had but another insane cliff hanger. Merle is gonna face some wrath if the Gov discovers Michonne alive. How they attack the town will be interesting. Do they all go stealth or do they start the killing? They could try and get the Gov's mens focus on them and let our Ninja Michonne breach the back door. I think Rick is smart enough to see one guard with an MP5KPDW and Michonne's earlier statement about paramilitary, that a full on assault is not a good idea. So stealth it probably is. But a dilema awaits if the unarmed average citizen awakens to the fight and comes to have a look. How will Rick and co respond? The clip with Rick rocking a full auto blast from an M4 is less likely a full on assault but more a covering fire for a retreat. So maybe they manage to rescue Glen and Maggie but someone is gonna end up trapped and face the vengence of the Gov. Who ever it is may face a public execution(hint). The towns people will not need much persuasion as Ricks group can easily be labeled as murderous bandits. Damn this show is good. I mean it is really good.

[MinionZombie]

My thoughts... IN SUMMARY: * Glenn took a hell of a beating in this episode, as dispensed by Merle - that glimpse of a soft side is long gone here. The bad guy you love to hate just got a lot more dangerous. * Michonne clearly works on instinct, and while Rick's warnings are clearly the sort that he'd follow-through on, she can see a marked difference in this group versus Woodbury. It was nice to get some character time here too - everybody finds out Carol is alive for one, but for another there was that beautifully performed piece from Melissa McBride where she was overjoyed by the arrival of the baby, but then the sudden realisation that it was at the expense of Lori - her mood flipping in an instant - packed considerable emotional clout. * Baby Judith - just like in the comics. * Even though we viewers know the answer (as does Andrea), it was cool to see Milton conducting one of his experiments - to see if anything of your past life remains when you turn. With the comparisons to Day of the Dead, it's interesting to note a difference in the walker's behaviour regarding past-life-recognition. In Romero's flick Bub remembered books, a razor, and a telephone (he even talked!), but here there's no such thing. These undead figures really are slates wiped clean - haunting. * When the search party were surrounded by walkers in the woods, it was interesting to note that Michonne hanged back a bit - she was watching the others to see how capable they were. * I dug the touch with the hermit in the woods ... the crazy old bastard's survived this long and then all of a sudden he's dead and getting his body fed to the undead as a distraction. An interesting aside along the way. * Bear McCreary's music, once again, was great. The closing pieces of music really amped up the vibe of a coming storm, and the final piece even had a hint of Day of the Dead to it. * In regards to The Governor - it's probably wise that they didn't go as far as they did in the comics. Here the man has to be alluring enough to the people of Woodbury as he is to the viewer (even if we know all of his secrets, unlike his residents), and if he'd gone all-out (like in the comics) that would have immediately severed any audience ties with the man. He's exceptionally dangerous and not to be trusted, but it's important that we see that there are multiple sides to this man, and even a bastard can have a charming and vulnerable - even loving - side. This further gives credence to Andrea's motivations - she has no clue he's a twisted git. BEST GORE MOMENT: Glenn spiking a walker in the head with the broken arm of a chair - a tense and kick arse battle to the death that proved the former pizza boy has plenty of hair on his nuts. That was pretty inventive, although feeding the dead hermit to the walker crowd to provide a distraction for an escape was quite nifty too ... grim, but nifty. BEST TWIST ON THE COMICS: As mentioned last week, in the comics it was Glenn and Michonne who were captured by the folks of Woodbury and subjected to torture (the latter receiving a rather extreme dose of it too), however replacing Michonne with Maggie upped the stakes and made things personal. Plus, so far anyway, the sexual threat in the comics (which was wince-inducingly graphic in its nastiness) has been subdued here - probably a wise move to not alienate large portions of your audience whose stomachs mightn't be as hardy as those familiar with the source material. Besides, the threat itself was enough here - edge of your seat stuff. Leave Maggie alone! THE CLIFFHANGER: Shit's about to go off in the next episode. Daryl will find out his brother's alive, Maggie and Glenn need to escape/be rescued, will Andrea find out the attack on Woodbury is being performed by her old friends, will she discover The Governor's dirty secrets? These questions and more were posed - I can't wait for next week!

[shootemindehead]

In Romero's flick Bub remembered books, a razor, and a telephone (he even talked!), but here there's no such thing. These undead figures really are slates wiped clean - haunting. Not necessarily. Maybe this one just "became too unruly and had to be destroyed. They can still get information from it..." Besides, in series 1, they clearly showed that Morgan's wife remembered her gaff and how to turn the handle of her door. So, it's not all one way or the other.

[JonOfTheShred]

Another epic episode. The one week I decided to 'wait til the next day' to avoid commercials, I miss a hilarious coincidence of KFC following a zombie feast. - The experiments were interesting enough, despite that scientist guy being kind of lame. I wonder if Andrea will throw him a pity fuck? - Glad Maggie wasn't raped. I wouldn't have argued if they had gone along with it - Maggie in the show is kind of like Andrea in the comics - badass and cute as a button. She was a bit darker in the comics, and more conflicted, but there were more personal things to cope with, like the crazy inmate murdering her two sisters. I'd love it if they made her an expert sharp-shooter in the show, it'd be a nice touch IMO. - Glenn is badass. That whole scene was intense. I can't remember any zombie movie featuring a dude killing a zombie despite being tied up and held hostage. - Meryl + the Governor = the Governor from the comics. Governor in the show is kind of a pansy in comparison. If they have him kill Daryl, though? He will be even more hated than the Governor in the comic. I really hope that DOESN'T happen, as Daryl is my favorite character, but that would REALLY get people hating him.

[Wyldwraith]

I don't see them offing Daryl at this juncture, Rick is JUST back from whacko-land, and Daryl won major viewer points manning up while Rick lost his shit. Dropping Daryl now wouldn't be proving no one is safe, it'd be proving anyone interesting besides Andrew Lincoln is toast in VERY short order. Doesn't make Daryl immune to getting killed off...I just don't see him being one of Season 3's sacrificial lambs. Glenn and/or Maggie, definitely. Audience likes them enough their deaths would have punch, but killing off Maggie ultimately does nothing but make a more effective, harder-edged survivor out of Glenn...assuming he doesn't go all suicidal, which so many shows seem to think is the norm for people who lose loved one/a spouse tragically...when actually the % is like 3-5% over a 5yr period post-demise of the spouse. Mothers kill themselves over the death of children FAR, FAR more often than spouses punch out over the loss of each other. Not even daring to imply it wouldn't crush someone emotionally to lose their best friend and beloved...but that's what the numbers say at least in the U.S. And lest we try to apply "But it's a zombie apocalypse" argument, anyone who's made it this far isn't going to roll over and die from losing someone. Go crazy? Perhaps. Kill themselves? I don't see it. Plus, while cute and endearing as Glenn's One And Only, Maggie affects the group dynamic from a survival standpoint about as much as Carol or the late Lori did. Glenn's place in the dynamic is much more entrenched, and that may well buy the character a death sentence this season for shock value. I don't believe so...I think it will be Maggie, if anyone...but it's certainly vastly more likely than them arranging to dispose of the last first-class combatant to cover Rick's ass, especially when Michonne has about been given up on by TWD viewers on many a site. The window to redeem that character is only about a sliver from closing completely...they have to do something to switch off Michonne Caricature Mode, and do it fast. Just my thoughts and suspicions, yours may at any time vary.

[Trancelikestate]

Yeah cutting to that KFC commercial was high fucking larious. I laughed for a long time.

[MinionZombie]

Well, any decisions regarding the scripts for season three would have been made long ago before it even started airing, so the fan reactions won't have any impact until season four. Regarding characters and the doom-laden chopping block: As Mazzara said about not killing off Hershel in season two (partly to do with having to kill of Dale), if they had done, it would have been gratuitous and only for "shock value" - so I don't believe they'd go for "shock value" deaths as that is cheap and lacks meaning. T-Dog was a hero's death, and you need someone to die as a result of Andrew's actions (and in-turn, Rick not directly killing Andrew) ... then of course, the natural direction to go for maximum drama is to have the birth at the worst time, and that death has big dramatic pay offs for multiple characters. Carl is further torn from his childhood, Maggie is traumatised, Rick loses his wife and goes nuts, Carol (now) can repurpose her mothering skills for Judith and continue to be the heart and emotional core of the group, and so on... Now, characters - let's see... Rick - you can't kill him, it's extremely important that he's the leader and we see the continued effects of the apocalypse on this man from the start: it just keeps chipping away at him. Carl - a child before the apocalypse who is thrown into a perverse adulthood in a deadly world. He's extremely important to keep around, plus the whole father/son dynamic. Glenn - a great everyman cipherr, capable of a lot, but not the centre of attention. I share the opinions, outlook, and direction of Rick, but I'd imagine I'd be more of a Glenn in a similar situation. Capable, but not up-front unless needed there. His relationship with Maggie is key too - theirs is one born after the apocalypse, which is a really interesting dynamic. All the other relationships were being torn asunder by the apocalypse (e.g. Rick and Lori), but here's one being created as a result of it. Glenn and Maggie are tightly linked as a pairing too. Maggie - see above, but also I can't see them killing her off as you'd get more mileage out of the emotional damage caused by this ordeal ... not to go into it, but there is definitely fertile ground from the comics to explore regarding Maggie and emotional torment. She's also ruddy handy in a fight. Carol - the aforementioned heart and emotional core of the group. It's important to have someone who is perhaps receiving more than she's giving (in terms of survivalism). Kirkman has said that Carol was always someone in the comics who was one of the least capable for surviving in such a setting, so really, it's a real struggle for her and that's interesting. Here though she can now really help out with the mothering aspect - that wonderfully performed scene between McBride and Lincoln illustrated this. Daryl - too beloved by fans and far too capable in survivalism to go down at this stage. I can see it happening sometime, but hopefully far into the future, and in extremely high stakes. In the context of being utterly and hopelessly overwhelmed/outnumbered/cornered, or perhaps more likely, in the process of saving the lives of others (a hero's death) ... but it'd be foolish to kill him off this season, and still foolish next season. I hope he's around for a very long time! Hershel - valuable medical skills, but he could be on the chopping block at some point this season. Could we see the doctor from Woodbury joining Team Prison at some point? He does provide the worldly wise voice of an old sage though (as Dale once was). Age and wisdom are good to have. Beth - hasn't been able to do an awful lot. Would like to see more of her in the show (the sweet little exchanges between her and Carl is a cute side-line). She's waiting to find a niche in this world for sure. Michonne - too handy in a fight. It makes sense that Maggie replaced her in the interrogation as Michonne is so suspicious she'd be unlikely to end up in that situation (plus Merle lied about her dying). Andrea - too handy with a gun, we need to see her re-team with the prison lot, and she's hot for damaged leader figures ... Rick's a single man again after all. Merle - I can definitely see Daryl having to kill his brother, or perhaps allow his brother to die in a binary choice situation. I can see that being a dramatic high point of this season. Merle's deeds have rendered him as high risk for the chopping block. Milton - we've not seen enough of him yet. I like his character and would like to see much more of him in the show as time progresses. Axel & Oscar - we've only just got them in the show, so they're surely safe for now. We've not had much time with them. Judith the Baby - well, a baby is pretty defenceless. So anyway ... point being that there's so much to be done with so many of these characters and a shock value death isn't what the show aims to do. It has to be integral to the plot to kill someone off, and you don't want to lose beloved central protagonists who have so much more to give. I'm wondering if they think that the audience will be expecting a death in the mid-season finale, and then not have one. I'd be down for that - too many deaths takes too many dramatic options away, and you don't want to let your audience become inured to such events. Better to leave the tension-filled threat of impending doom hanging over everyone's head for the most part, and only swinging the axe when it is absolutely necessary (and makes a lot of sense).

[Moon Knight]

Not sure if this was already mentioned, but anyone else notice the simularity of the painting in the room Milton was conducting his experiments on with the beach scene from Day of the Dead?

[Neil]

Anyone else notice, 10 mins in, where we pan up to see the front gate of the town and a guard up on the wall... The barrel of his gun was very bent!

[Moon Knight]

Anyone else notice, 10 mins in, where we pan up to see the front gate of the town and a guard up on the wall... The barrel of his gun was very bent! Hmm, someone else mentioned this. What am I missing? lol

[ProfessorChaos]

Anyone else notice, 10 mins in, where we pan up to see the front gate of the town and a guard up on the wall... The barrel of his gun was very bent! i think i briefly noticed that, but was distracted by andrea's ass about 45 seconds later. but yeah, that barrel is aiming down at like a 15-degree angle. and after rewatching the episode, that music at the end is piercing and vibrant, really ratcheting up the tension and making us fans restless to see how things turn out. and in the previews for next week, does it appear to anyone else that the governor has a look of shock on his face as a door is closed on him? could it be that he's about to get his already?