TWD 7x02 "The Well" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

I thought Shiva looked pretty good. From Talking Dead it seems that they did a combination of CGI and practical effects (they've got a fancy tiger puppet that they can use), and I wonder if there's real footage of a tiger (against a green screen, say) that has been inserted digitally into certain scenes ... so a combination of things ... but I think it worked quite well. I loved that scene at the door to Carol's new home - hey, it's me and my tiger popping by with some fruit as a house warming gift. I think Ezekiel's got the hots for Carol. That whole "don't bullshit a bullshitter" scene showed that he'd found a bit of a kindred spirit, I feel. Comics Spoiler regarding Ezekiel's love life:   Seeing as Rick is with Michonne now on the TV show, that means they can't have Ezekiel with Michonne like in the comics, but Carol never made it anywhere near this far in the comics so we've got a new opportunity here to tweak the existing story. Oh - and Jerry rocked. It's nice to have a cheery soul in the mix.

[Moon Knight]

Shiva looked better than I would have thought. The true test is if they actually have her get physical with walkers or humans. Ezekiel and Shiva both look great in the show. Someone had mentioned earlier how they were tired of Carol's runaway theme and I agree. It's time they dead that and having her bond with Ezekiel seems to be the remedy for that. "You can go but don't go." Something along those lines, was a good attempt by the King to get through to Carol, and hey, it worked lol. As you can see in that very cool ending when Zeke and Shiva show up with fruit in hand. Jerry. Haha.

[Neil]

Well, what a perfect episode given last weeks depressing head mash fest! The final scene with Carol wondering who was at the door, and then hearing a tiger roar... Classic!

[shootemindehead]

I think they had to go that way for this episode. You couldn't have 45 minutes of Rick and co whinging back in Alexandria and theh running time is just too limited to do scenes there and with Morgan and Carol at the Kingdom. Plus, that episode needed the reveal of Zeke being a con artist, otherwise it just wouldn't have worked for too many people. Next week, we'll probably get a montage of whaaaa in Alexandria and then get on with it.

[MinionZombie]

As to the 'runaway Carol act' ... it wasn't running for that long, though. It was basically played out for the most part in Season 6B. In season four she was ousted by Rick, but she was soon back in the arms of the group. From then on she was all in there. It wasn't until Season 6 that things started to go a bit pear shaped, and even then it was a gradual thing - and all the better for it, too - she saw what her life was once like (barring the abusive husband, but you know, all the homemaker stuff and normal life and community stuff), and what she'd had to do to get there. The creeping doubt sets in - has she gone too far? Is there anything of her left? Was the whole Alexandria life an act for her? Combined with the battle with Morgan it all came to a head. She made her move in the season six finale and we've had it resolved in her first episode back. Just because there's a six month gap in-between episodes, doesn't mean it was dragged out. So it wasn't a subplot that was running for that long, guys. But it was good for them to get it sorted by the end of this episode, mind. Likewise revealing Ezekiel's backstory and grounding his character straight away. He's such an out there character that leaving a week (or more, as I can't imagine we'll be seeing much - or any - of them Kingdom next week) for audiences to think "well, he's a bit silly, isn't it?" would have been the wrong way to go. I did enjoy the Morgan/Carol interplay regarding Ezekiel - before and afterwards.

[shootemindehead]

It's not the length, but the silliness of the idea that's the problem. Where the bloody hell does she think she's running to? As for Ezekiel, yeh, the interwebzone would have been in meltdown if that was left without the "I'm a bullshitter" coda.

[MinionZombie]

It's not the length, but the silliness of the idea that's the problem. Where the bloody hell does she think she's running to? Well she probably sees herself as a bit of a monster now. She sees how (relatively) easily - and honestly - the others in the group have returned to a normal suburban lifestyle (albeit in the zombie apocalypse and in a walled-off community), but she feels a fraud with her Susie homemaker act. It was true once upon a time, but that part of her is lost and what's left? A killer, a hardened survivor, and it's all become too much. It would be daft to think that she wouldn't eventually crumble under the weight of that now that she doesn't have to do those things that she did in order to survive in far more hellish conditions. She just wants to be alone and retreat, she feels disconnected and lost. Getting away is as much about finding something as it is about running away, for Carol.

[facestabber]

Go Cubs go!!! TWD rules too

[Moon Knight]

Carol had been through some tough crap including murdering children. Her mindset and intentions no mater how silly or questionable they can be, will never make sense because we haven't been in those shoes.

[JDP]

Carol had been through some tough crap including murdering children. Her mindset and intentions no mater how silly or questionable they can be, will never make sense because we haven't been in those shoes. It looks to me that she is being unnecessarily tough on herself. She has been a victim of circumstances just like everyone else, and she did what it had to be done in order for her and her group to survive. There should be no guilt on her part. All she has done so far -except this current weird guilt trip- has been the right thing to do.

[Moon Knight]

It looks to me that she is being unnecessarily tough on herself. She has been a victim of circumstances just like everyone else, and she did what it had to be done in order for her and her group to survive. There should be no guilt on her part. All she has done so far -except this current weird guilt trip- has been the right thing to do. Yeah I agree on that. I just think that not everyone takes it the same way.

[MinionZombie]

I just think that not everyone takes it the same way. Indeed. It's very easy, having not experienced the things Carol has experienced - nor living for a single second in a zombie apocalypse ourselves (from a position of 20/20 hindsight analysis, sensory disconnection, and objectivity) - to say "oh, buck up, kiddo". Carol's had to do things that none of the others have had to do (or see). The Lizzie situation alone is messed up in the extreme - Carol had to witness her failure to sort Lizzie out (but the kid was rotten, so it wasn't Carol's fault - but she doesn't see it that was, especially not as she was considering Lizzie (and Micah, too) a surrogate daughter). She comes back and finds Lizzie's slaughtered her sister, and then Carol has to execute a living, breathing, human child! That's pretty messed up - even more so for a mother, I'd assume. Carol has also lost her daughter, who was no doubt extremely close to her because of their pre-apocalypse life. Carol was probably very contained in her home and Sophia was likely her one source of joy in the world - and then she loses her, searches for her, and then sees her zombified corpse staggering out of the barn ... and then put down. Again, that's pretty messed up. Then there's the Karen & David situation. She was trying to do the right thing - but she did murder living humans - and there might have been a chance for one or both of them to survive as there was a remedy (although, to be honest, K&D would have likely died as they got it early). She's lived out there in the apocalypse, she's been exiled and then brought back into the fold, she's had to kill to survive ... that's a heavy load to put on anyone, and everyone's going to have a different breaking point. By contrast, Rick is a Sheriff, he did lose his wife (and suffered the mental consequences keenly), but he did regain Judith in the Season 5 premiere and has kept Carl alive through all of this (albeit not completely intact ). Rick's job will have steeled him better for the position of a leader in this world and to do the things he has done - but he's still suffered along the way, so it's not like Carol's the only one suffering ... but Carol has seen and done things that no other has seen or done (although Tyreese was present for the Lizzie situation).

[shootemindehead]

Again though...where the hell does she think she's going to go? My gripe with Carol (one of the best characters in the show AFAIC) is not that she's suffering from what she's done or seen, it's the silly nature of her suffering. If she wants to end it all, then just do that. It would be very easy with all the guns lying around. It just strikes me as the writers feeling the need to try and give Carol something to do, rather than playing out any real grief response. Or perhaps having a vague idea for her to do something, but failing to think it through. In any case, it seems she's given up trying to run away (quite miraculously) and settled in to a new gaff for a bit.

[Moon Knight]

She didn't give up running away, she actually found a home to call her own. I believe that's all that she wanted. However, I do believe Ezekiel got to her in a way no one else could. So, in the end, she did leave, just not far enough and that was no coincident. Dammit, Shoot, whenever I read your post I read it in Capt. Rhodes's voice haha.

[MinionZombie]

Carol's religious, though (or at least she was, and is at the core of her character) ... so quite possibly she doesn't dig the idea of suicide, even in the zombie apocalypse. She's kind of at war with herself and her natural instinct to survive. She can do a big 'harsh practicalities' game, but deep down in the core of her character I think there's still some deep religious roots.