TWD 9x08 "Evolution" episode discussion... **SPOILERS**

[facestabber]

Had they decided to kill Rick I think Jesus death would have really worked. It really was unsuspecting, especially for the characters. They’ve been killing Walkers for 10 years so every character would not anticipate that.

[shootemindehead]

TWD has always been an ensemble show, but before it was an ensemble with Rick as the leader, now it's just an ensemble show ... Regardless of his (very human) flaws, we woke up with Rick, we've been with Rick every step of the way. We've seen other people join HIM. We seen antagonists battle mainly against HIM. The "ensemble" gathered around HIM and, frankly, there's not a single person on the show now that can fill that gap. Not Michonne, not Daryl, not Carol. They are all secondary and tertiary characters, designed as an extension of the main character that the audience has "identified" with, for better or for worse. We've experienced the world of TWD largely through HIS eyes, not his sidekicks. The fact that he's no longer there is a huge blow to the series and there's no point in glossing over that Mini, just because the first couple of episodes without him have been ok. Andrew Lincoln has really put the producers of this show in a quandary.

[MinionZombie]

While I agree it's a big change and I'd still prefer to have him on the show (or at least have still had Carl there for bloodline continuity), the quality of season 9 has thus far been very good and has greatly exceeded my expectations. Sure, we'll have to see how the show handles the lack of Rick from here on out, but the six year time jump does help things as the world looks very different to what it looked like before, so we've at least got this sense of separation already. Now, I've only read as far as Volume 30 of the trade paperbacks, but post AoW Rick as a character in the comics has been fairly sidelined for the most part (not helped by having one arm and a gammy leg). He's had bits of business here and there, but has mostly been confined to Alexandria and more of an 'office job' as-it-were, so there wasn't particularly strong material coming for the character IIRC. Of course, yeah, they could have written new stuff and made improvements to his storyline from the comics, but so far they're handling it surprisingly well. I know what you mean about needing a leader and I agree with the 'we woke up with Rick' viewpoint - I've said that very same thing myself, and certainly did after news hit that Lincoln was departing the show ... however, I've been pleasantly surprised with how the show has felt refreshed under the leadership of Angela Kang.

[Moon Knight]

In this point in the story Rick isn’t really needed. The biggest stories in the comics now don’t even involve him. His last great moment came during this Whisperer arc imo. In fact he is more like a background character to me while Michonne is more the focal point. Losing TV Rick sucks but I’m still enjoying the show more than I did the last couple years. So knowing what’s coming ahead makes it easier to move on from Andy’s era.

[Zombie Snack]

I also hated the idea of rick leaving the show but I honestly have not really been affected so far. I think the job Kang has done with the show has helped alot. If only she had been at the helm a year or two earlier, who knows how things would have played out.

[facestabber]

I certainly understand anyone that loses interest because of Ricks absence. Ricks story has always been my primary concern and what I enjoy the most. There are some characters I love on the show. Granted not as much as I love Rick Grimes. So I’m watching because: Rick is alive and at some point will make an appearance(maybe at the end) which I feel will be a huge payoff. This is the ZA with some quality actors/acting and amazing makeup/effects. Angela Kang has been doing a stellar job. I only wish she’d taken over during season 7. Truthfully I’m shocked that I’m cool with a Rickless show. When I first heard about his departure I was pissed to hell and back. The loss is enormous but I think there is some quality left and mostly hope that Rick will eventually reunite with Judith, Michonne, is unknown son and for me Daryl.

[Moon Knight]

I certainly understand anyone that loses interest because of Ricks absence. Ricks story has always been my primary concern and what I enjoy the most. There are some characters I love on the show. Granted not as much as I love Rick Grimes. So I’m watching because: Rick is alive and at some point will make an appearance(maybe at the end) which I feel will be a huge payoff. This is the ZA with some quality actors/acting and amazing makeup/effects. Angela Kang has been doing a stellar job. I only wish she’d taken over during season 7. Truthfully I’m shocked that I’m cool with a Rickless show. When I first heard about his departure I was pissed to hell and back. The loss is enormous but I think there is some quality left and mostly hope that Rick will eventually reunite with Judith, Michonne, is unknown son and for me Daryl. I feel the same way. I think Rick’s departure being leaked was the best thing that could have happened.

[MinionZombie]

I feel the same way. I think Rick’s departure being leaked was the best thing that could have happened. 'Leaked' eh? But yeah, you have all the shock and the aggro initially, then it got addressed officially at Comic-Con by Lincoln - but in a way that gave you a little bit of hope (instead of all the bullshit clickbait headlines that were flurrying about the internet at the time), and then you go into the new season knowing full well and having already kind of accepted it, so there's little to really distract from Kang & Co's storytelling. It was a canny move. I don't think it really did them any favours advertising wise, but I think for those who have stuck with the show it was a good move for the aforemenionted reasons.

[shootemindehead]

Ricks story has always been my primary concern and what I enjoy the most This is what everyone was watching the show for, whether they liked Grimes or not, or want to admit it or even know it. A fiction, generally, needs a central character and most, if not all, of the events happening in that fiction are impacted on or by that central character. Without that grounding, the story can become floaty and uninteresting. And even in ensemble pieces, there is usually (nearly always) a central figure for the audience to hook onto. In 'The Walking Dead', that figure was Rick Grimes. I don't want to labour the point here, but I just can't see a satisfactory solution to this problem for the show. Trying to push Michonne to the fore isn't going to work, she's just not that interesting and Daryl is the very definition of support guy. A grunty wingman, prepper fantasy, and nothing more. He's the human embodiment of the dog who's now his sidekick. And while the first couple of episodes have been ok, and the genius stroke was made of not actually killing Grimes off, it's extremely rare that a TV show can continue on for long after the central character of that show leaves and past precedent bares that out. In fact, off the top of my head, I can only think of 'Midsomer Murders' that has done it successfully. But, they could have replaced Barnaby with a robot and the old ladies that watch that show would still have tuned in. Most, simply limp on until the plug is pulled as viewer figures drop, and the viewer figures have been dropping for the show for some time. Anyway, as I said, I don't want to labour the point, so that's all I'll say on the matter.

[Moon Knight]

For those who saw the preview for next year, damn, Beta looks like an absolute beast.

[MinionZombie]

I wouldn't say Daryl is 'just' a prepper fantasy or sidekick as he's had his own journey going on. Not of the same level as Rick, but he's gone from the subjugated little brother of a drug-addled racist from an abusive family and social background, a guy whose outlook on life was quite limited and guided by lesser minds and attitudes, to a man who can stand and act on his own two feet and contribute to the group while being welcomed into said group as an equal. Rick regarding Daryl as his brother was a huge thing for him. In recent seasons (i.e. 7 and 8) he was shafted more to just grunting a lot, but he's really shown much more independence in these recent episodes while staying true to his kinda lone wolf vibe.

[Moon Knight]

I wouldn't say Daryl is 'just' a prepper fantasy or sidekick as he's had his own journey going on. Not of the same level as Rick, but he's gone from the subjugated little brother of a drug-addled racist from an abusive family and social background, a guy whose outlook on life was quite limited and guided by lesser minds and attitudes, to a man who can stand and act on his own two feet and contribute to the group while being welcomed into said group as an equal. Rick regarding Daryl as his brother was a huge thing for him. In recent seasons (i.e. 7 and 8) he was shafted more to just grunting a lot, but he's really shown much more independence in these recent episodes while staying true to his kinda lone wolf vibe. Yeah, I’m digging this return to form for Daryl this season. Plus he has Dog.

[Neil]

That reveal at the end got a big OOOOOOOHHHHHHHH!! From me! Nice stuff!

[Moon Knight]

That reveal at the end got a big OOOOOOOHHHHHHHH!! From me! Nice stuff! Very nicely done!

[MinionZombie]

For those who saw the preview for next year, damn, Beta looks like an absolute beast. I just scampered off to have a gander at that preview ... beast, indeed! From the preview:   When he's tossing Daryl around like a rag doll - bloody nora!