TWD 6x08 "Start to Finish" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

I knew it was going to be a cliffhanger!!! That makes total sense ... even if it was an extended episode they wouldn't be able to cover all the chaos in 63 minutes. Hell, even in 88 minutes (two standard length episodes) they probably won't cover everything, so a cliffhanger makes the most sense - even if it is annoying - we want to know what happens next, but boy am I eager to see 6x09! However - it's not like they're the first show to end/pause on a cliffhanger - and f*ck me, calm down, it's only two sodding months you have to wait!!! Deadwood just ended with no conclusion, Twin Peaks ended - twenty five years ago - without a conclusion and a gigantic cliffhanger ... hell, Season 4 ended with them all locked in a train car and we had to wait several months for the chaos ... so I think we can all manage just a couple of months (with the distraction of Christmas thrown in for good measure). I'd have slapped that Sam kid, though, because damn is he a liability! Clearly that's not Jessie's way of doing things - especially as a victim of spousal abuse, it's the last thing she'd ever do (and, besides, mother's tend to love their offspring to a fault at times, even if being harsh with them in that rare moment might prove to be the best choice ultimately). Personally, I'd have told the kid to NOT SAY A SINGLE WORD, DON'T MAKE A SOUND, DO EXACTLY AS I TELL YOU TO DO, AND TRUST ME. Then again, with the cookie monster babbling away we're going to see some serious shit in 6x09 - it's going to be a hell of an episode!!! Would I have liked to have seen it unfold now? Sure! Who wouldn't? But I don't mind them 'cliffhangering' me either. As for not getting a payoff? Dying Deanna going full badass isn't enough? Carol versus Morgan isn't enough? The intense episode-long tension isn't enough? Greedy guts! Clearly there's a huge amount of stuff going on in this episode - decisions and actions that will have significant ramifications in Season 6B, so in some ways we're being set up for what's to come. We got some serious action (Maggie's panicked escape from that cluster of walkers had me waving my arms frantically at the screen for our dear farmer's daughter to get up that damn ladder - SOOOOO TENSE!!!!), and some good emotional stuff too (I loved the interactions that Michonne had with Deanna in this episode). So ... my death predictions were off ... for this episode. I'll shift them over to 6x09, whether they all happen or not, we'll see. F*ck you AMC. Forcing us to watch Badlands to see our show!!!! I will never under any circumstances support badlands. Chicken shit move. I feel this Badlands show is very intrusive into my Walking Dead viewing. First, I had to give up watching Talking Dead since they put it on after Badlands and now I'm supposed to sit thru some of it to see next episode/previews stuff that they normally air during TWD credits?? I'm not going to be forced to watch a new show, so now I miss stuff. This Badlands show has been becoming more of a pain in the @$$ each week. I completely understand AMC's decision regarding Into The Badlands ... ... however, that doesn't mean I agree with it. Shoving it between TWD and Talking Dead is intrusive enough as it is (incidentally TWD and TD will be back together again in February, so no worries there), but are you guys saying they took the tag scene with Abraham/Sasha/Daryl and inserted it somewhere between parts of Into The Badlands? If that's the case then f*ck me - that's bloody cheeky! I understanding them wanting to give their new show a good chance, but annoying the fans of your #1 show isn't the best way to go about it - you'll create resentment and even hostility towards Into The Badlands as a result, and it seems AMC have somewhat done that. If you're gonna watch, you'll watch, if you're not gonna watch, you won't. I understand all this 'lead in' stuff that American networks seem particularly fond of, but they have messed around with the existing Sunday night schedule too much, I think. Even Comic Book Men got shafted entirely (we're missing three episodes at this point - back in February apparently, but for those of us who enjoy CBM it's a nuisance). If that last scene would have at least played out we would all be talking about this one differently. I prefer they follow the comics. That's when the show is at its best. Yeah, it would have been nice if they'd gone further with that particular scene ... but then again if they did go a step further, they'd need to go several steps further beyond that, as the action would spiral out of control. So I understand why they cut where they cut. Agreed. The comics provide an excellent backbone - and they regularly meander from the path, but they do so in ways that still provide surprises and changes things up. Carol and Daryl affect the plot in numerous ways that they never did - or were ever able to - in the comics, for instance. ... Circling back to Deanna - I commend Tovah Feldshuh on her performance in this episode, she really nailed it, and her final moments were very well writting. I liked that she was using humour as a defence mechanism, while also being resigned to her fate, but that she wasn't just going to give up either. I liked that moment where she just wanted to see Judith one last time - the mother inside of her coming out ... just think of that, she's about to die, and this is the last time she'll see a baby, and feel that twang of motherhood. In many ways that's quite poignant. I dug her little line about Rick's beard - it is one hell of a beard, after all ... and of course it was awesome to see her just fling that door open and take down six of those fetid bastards. Like Feldshuh said on Talking Dead, it played into her 'greater good' mentality. It'll be interesting to see how Alexandria's leadership goes from here on out for Rick. He's been a whirlwind for these people, a hell of a culture shock, but he's their only real hope. ... TWD 6x08 Memes:   http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2015/...dead-6x08.html

[kidgloves]

Dawn MZ. Does ANYTHING piss you off. I had a good read of the comments on AMC''s Facebook page and it's 99.99% f*ck you AMC. They really are digging a hole with that Into the Badlands bullshit. Lots of very very unhappy people

[MinionZombie]

Dawn MZ. Does ANYTHING piss you off. I had a good read of the comments on AMC''s Facebook page and it's 99.99% f*ck you AMC. They really are digging a hole with that Into the Badlands bullshit. Lots of very very unhappy people So I'd imagine they'd want to steer clear of such things in the future, which would be the sensible thing to do. Yes, things do piss me off, many things in fact ... but a Walking Dead cliffhanger? Why would that piss me off? It's a bit annoying that I have to wait until February to see how the story continues, but that was always going to be the case, cliffhangers have been used by practically every show in existence, and there was a lot of awesome stuff in 6x08. AMC's pushing of Into The Badlands is a separate issue - and clearly it's pissed off a lot of people by sandwiching it inbetween TWD and TD (again - those two shows will be back-to-back once more come the mid-season premiere ... indeed, it almost sounded a bit like Hardwick was a bit exasperated by AMC's decision on that front in the way he assured TWD/TD fans of the shift back to normal procedure in February ... that's how it sounded to me, at least). I understand AMC wanting their new show to do well, but absolutely it should not get in the way of existing (and highly popular) shows. You're just going to create resentment rather than intrigue. 6.4m and 4.8m for the first two episodes, so it'll be interesting to see from an observer's perspective how the figures for the remaining episodes shake out - where will they bottom out? Even if it ultimately proves successful with enough viewers, the amount of aggro the scheduling has generated isn't worth it. Clearly AMC were trying something out, but I think even then they went too far in the "while you wait for more TWD, watch THIS won't you?" shtick. ... All of this is besides the point - the point being the episode itself - which I thoroughly enjoyed. Yes, it irks me that I'll have to wait until February to see the story resolve, but sooner or later the mid-season break was coming, and I always kind of figured we'd have a cliffhanger situation to keep the fans hungry for the show's return. It's fun to have a little mystery to keep you guessing and drooling over. They don't over-do cliffhangers, and look at last year's mid-season break - there was a distinct splice down the middle, which did make it kind of two mini-seasons rather than a whole. I think this temporary cliffhanger will result in a more fluid viewing experience on home video when you're watching it all in your own time.

[rongravy]

I thought they showed the Negan name drop scene immediately before the Badlands show started, or pretty darn quick. They also reshowed it during TD, so no biggie. I was more pissed about not being able to skim through commercials for the stupid plane mini episode... I was expecting for them to leave us hanging like this. But, yeah... More, more, more!!!

[kidgloves]

I'm thinking the Walking Dead is pointless now if it's just going to be a retread of the comics. Fear The Walking Dead may be what we want. I'm with you on this one. The shows roughly at the same stage that I lost interest in the comics. I made it to the end of "All out war" at a struggle and then I was done. For me, this has been the worst half season so far. Episodes 1&2 were outstanding and I really enjoyed last week's, despite the Glen controversy. I no longer feel like any of the main characters are in danger. We haven't had a season 1 death since Andrea in season 3 and I can't help thinking that the upcoming big death from the comics will end up being Morgan who I'm beginning to dislike immensely in the show anyway.

[Moon Knight]

I'm with you on this one. The shows roughly at the same stage that I lost interest in the comics. I made it to the end of "All out war" at a struggle and then I was done. For me, this has been the worst half season so far. Episodes 1&2 were outstanding and I really enjoyed last week's, despite the Glen controversy. I no longer feel like any of the main characters are in danger. We haven't had a season 1 death since Andrea in season 3 and I can't help thinking that the upcoming big death from the comics will end up being Morgan who I'm beginning to dislike immensely in the show anyway. Dude, you aren't lying. I think All out War can be good TV if done well but the comics drop off for me there too. I try and keep up to date but after issue 144 I lost complete interest. Also agree on the show not killing main characters. It has to be Daryl, Glenn, or Carol by season's end. Anyone else will be dissapointing.

[shootemindehead]

I see that zombie smell shit is back. Seriously. F*ck all of that. Meh. 6 Started off great. Ballsed it up completely. Hopefully the next half will redeem itself.

[Harleydude666]

Wow, this episode and the entire first half of this season is very underwhelming. The Glenn thing pissed me off, no way he survives, that whole thing was a bottle of cheese wiz to me. The writers are now insulting our intelligence. I'm also sick to my stomach with all these long drawn out boring speeches every single character all of a sudden feels the need to spew. Nothing but preposterous drivel, especially that Spencer one at the food armory. Seriously, there are walkers surrounding you and all of a sudden everyone thinks they're Hamlet The delivery of some zombie attacks are lazy and pathetic at best. How do you not hear a walker coming upon you in the woods. But these zombie attacks go back far in the series. Andrea in the woods, zombies reaching through the trees, Dale's attack, the zombie pinned behind a boulder a couple of weeks ago reaching out and just grabbing the guy at will, and Carter's death(how pathetic was that one)? I expect better especially when Nicotero is part of this crew. How about a little more effort and imagination in these zombie attacks? Sheesh How does the crew watch the dailies and say "this is great!"? To me the show is becoming stale, and fast. I'd fire these writers and hire some writers who truly know what the horror genre is about. I'm predicting a ratings decline as the second half moves on unless something is done quick. If there is no threat people become bored. I'm getting bored and I dreaded that this day was gonna come. I just didn't think it was gonna come this early for me.

[facestabber]

I am seeing so much negative feedback, outside this forum as well. This is not good AMC. Those assholes better take notice. This first half as a whole is probably my least favorite. Season 2,4 and 5 mid season breaks were really powerful. There were some good moments here but something just felt off. But I must add, in the past when it seems the show is in a bit of a rut, they knock it out of the park. I remember the back to back Dale, Shane deaths and the chaos at the farm. 06-09 looks to be down right wicked, and I think my death predictions look promising.

[JDP]

I completely understand AMC's decision regarding Into The Badlands ... ... however, that doesn't mean I agree with it. Shoving it between TWD and Talking Dead is intrusive enough as it is (incidentally TWD and TD will be back together again in February, so no worries there), but are you guys saying they took the tag scene with Abraham/Sasha/Daryl and inserted it somewhere between parts of Into The Badlands? If that's the case then f*ck me - that's bloody cheeky! I understanding them wanting to give their new show a good chance, but annoying the fans of your #1 show isn't the best way to go about it - you'll create resentment and even hostility towards Into The Badlands as a result, and it seems AMC have somewhat done that. If you're gonna watch, you'll watch, if you're not gonna watch, you won't. I understand all this 'lead in' stuff that American networks seem particularly fond of, but they have messed around with the existing Sunday night schedule too much, I think. That's exactly what they have done for the last 3 episodes, ever since the premiere of the new show. Not only they sandwiched it between TWD and TD, but then aired special messages and previews having to do with TWD during the commercial breaks for Into the Badlands, not like they always do, which is during TWD or TD, the two proper shows to air such things. This is a very blatant attempt at twisting the arms of TWD and TD viewers, who right now are AMC's core audience, into watching the new show. I also understand that they want to promote the new show, and I would not have any problem with it except for this disruptive and forceful manner in which they have done it. Instead of gaining many new viewers for the new show, they will very likely cause many TWD and TD viewers to not want to watch Into the Badlands at all. AMC is being too pushy with its core audience, and many fans of TWD are not liking it. - - - Updated - - - I thought they showed the Negan name drop scene immediately before the Badlands show started, or pretty darn quick. They also reshowed it during TD, so no biggie. No, they didn't, they aired it during the first commercial break for Into the Badlands. This time they also aired it later, during TD, but they did not do this for the two previous times they pulled the same stunt. For example, I totally missed Steven Yeun's special message to fans because they only aired it during one of the commercial breaks for Into the Badlands. Yes, I know it seems rather trivial just for a special "thank you" note or whatever, but it pissed me off that they pulled this cheap gimmick to try to keep the TWD audience tuned in for the new show. As if sandwiching a new show between TWD and TD was not already disruptive enough. I find these attempts at twisting arms into watching a new show very bothersome.

[MinionZombie]

I completely agree on the Into The Badlands related forcefulness that AMC have been pulling. As for "weakest half season yet" ... are you guys high?! 2A was too drawn out and padded with filler, while 3B was very patchy (it included some of the very best as well as some of the very worst episodes in TWD history). I enjoyed it all, but those facts remain. Sometimes I just don't know about you folks ... ... when the show fucks up I recognise it and expect better, but this thread is just downright bizarre to me. And another payoff moment: Carl vs Ron! Good to see the fight was much more rough and tumble, rather than tha hilarious slap exchange we got last time. I dug Carl's confidence about wanting to deal with the issue himself - and not resorting to absolute violence to solve the problem, and instead laid down some truth for ass hat Ron ... although I would have sought a quiet word with Rick ASAP. However, in that moment there's little point ultimately as the main issue is blocking off the walkers and getting out of the house alive. Incidentally, them walking through the walkers was really creepy. Some of the walkers inside the house gave me a Romero vibe. It's interesting to see them just meandering about from time to time as opposed to always in attack mode, if that makes sense ... the secret life of walkers, haha. Loved how Carol played possum and used her head wound to trick Morgan. I dug what Kirkman was saying about how Carol was scared because she realised that she would kill Morgan in order to kill the Wolf. She absolutely didn't want to, but she was fully prepared - and even intended - to do just that, and that scared the hell out of her. Good to see some vulnerability still in there, that's she's not just become a pure warrior - that she's still human, that she still feels, that she is far down the line but not so far that she can't recognise the fact.

[kidgloves]

We're going good to have to agree to disagree then MZ. I expect better quality in my TV shows and at this stage I can help think what would have happened had Darabont not been ousted. This season has turned into a very lazily written and thinly stretched bore fest. The writers have NO idea how to write natural dialogue. People don't talk to each other like they do in this. How many times do we see characters fall over to generate jeopardy? There were 2 situation's in this episode alone. Unimaginative and lazy. Edit And if I see one more person say "it makes more sense when you watch the in a block", I'm going to scream. That's not how it's broadcast originally and consumed by 90% of the audience and, quite frankly, its a cop out.

[Moon Knight]

As dissapointed I am with the last 3 episodes, no way this is the worse first half. Let's not let the hate fool us. Season 2 was saved by the second half. I'm fairly confident this back half will knock it out the park. I wasn't a fan of season 5's first half and because of the excellent second half it became one of my favorites. - - - Updated - - - We're going good to have to agree to disagree then MZ. I expect better quality in my TV shows and at this stage I can help think what would have happened had Darabont not been ousted. This season has turned into a very lazily written and thinly stretched bore fest. The writers have NO idea how to write natural dialogue. People don't talk to each other like they do in this. How many times do we see characters fall over to generate jeopardy? There were 2 situation's in this episode alone. Unimaginative and lazy. Edit And if I see one more person say "it makes more sense when you watch the in a block", I'm going to scream. That's not how it's broadcast originally and consumed by 90% of the audience and, quite frankly, its a cop out. I agree on people falling over. That shit is getting out of hand.

[shootemindehead]

As for "weakest half season yet" ... are you guys high?! The last few episodes have been pretty weak in fairness, especially after the rollicking opening few. The duff "Miracle of Glenn", time wasted with Morgan's "Kung Fu" episode and just some generally stupid crap that has crept into the show has seriously exposed that it's dropped the ball in some respects. And another payoff moment: Carl vs Ron! Loved how Carol played possum and used her head wound to trick Morgan. Unfortunately, the writers chose THAT particular time for those characters to make their move, which has to be some seriously shitty writing, I have to say. The worst offender being Ron. I mean really. Yeh there's a ton of zombies outside, threatening to batter down the house and scoff everyone inside. I'll deal with Karl now. FFS. Carol's move, too, was pretty stupid and made at a stupid time, when waiting and dealing with the bigger problem would have suited her character better. Incidentally, them walking through the walkers was really creepy. Nah Mini, it's not. It's simply dumb. People on here, by now, know that I cannot stand that "zombie super smell" stupidity and seeing scenes like that takes any suspense away, because the idea is, A.) completely idiotic and B.) a method that's shown to work in the show's universe and therefore should be used ALL OF THE TIME as a camouflage solution. The zombies don't bother them when they use it, so they've would use it every time they have to come into contact with them. The logic fail with that nonsense is just immense. It's extremely poor writing.

[MinionZombie]

It wouldn't be all that easy to use the 'gut sheets' approach all the time. You'd have to constantly replenish the gore, and it's not safe in the long run - Kirkman mentioned the risk of falling ill by doing that - plus it's ridiculously disgusting, so I doubt you'd want to be roaming about covered in that gunk (in soaring temperatures to boot!) all the damn time. It's for extreme emergency situations only. It's been used, what, four times in six seasons? Three times intentionally. I do agree that the 'science' reasoning behind it is a bit iffy - but the 'die from a bite' science is just as curious when everyone's infected already as it is ... but I don't let that spoil my good time either. *looks underfoot* So much piss all over the floor in this thread.