Demons 1 & 2 ... finally got around to seeing them...

[krisvds]

I can enjoy a romp, but Demons (1 or 2) didn't play like that for me. They felt like they were too self-important, and neither sticking to one vibe or the other - be it stylish Italian flash, or sleazy Italian grot. The helicopter falling through the roof made no sense at all - it was entirely unmotivated, it literally falls out of the sky, and it's just the cherry on top of a succession of nonsensical tosh happening. Even films that are deliberately crazy have sense behind them, this is just a succession of random crap happening for 90 dragged-out minutes. There are cool moments littered throughout, but goddamn ... I just didn't dig either of these movies at all. Frankly those involved have all done better work by a long shot - Bava's "A Blade in the Dark" really goes for the Italian obsession with architecture and style, and there's a cohesive plot running throughout in which random bullshit doesn't just happen ... and Argento has done many things better, perhaps not recently, but certainly around that time before and after. The fact it was cobbled together by four people speaks volumes about its muddled and messy plot ... it's like at least two distinct styles, perhaps even three, of Italian horror filmmaking are fighting with each other, with a half-assed sense of grandeur on a budget that is seemingly entirely incapable of supporting it. Dardano Sacchetti, also, has been involved in a whole bunch of superior films to this. Demons 1 and 2 seemed very muddled and unsure of what they wanted to be, and poorly thought out frankly. Slap-dash, really. All involved have done better things; that's for sure. But I don't agree that the films are unsure of what they want to be. I feel they are meant as satirical, funny stabs at the genre. As you said; a romp. Not to be taken seriously. Trash cinema. Miles away from something like suspiria which for me is prob one of the best horror films ever made. And yeah, the helicopter does make 'sense.'

[MinionZombie]

A satire?! Satire is too complex a thing for Demons 1 or 2, to be honest. And with the length of time it takes for someone to convert to a Demon (aye, Demons, not zombies - who gets those confused? ), I'd have landed the chopper and kicked them out, or just kicked them out ... but then again, the conversions are so utterly inconsistent from one minute to the next - it can either take utterly ages for someone to convert so the cool gore fx can take the limelight for a while, or it can take literally a second ... as much time as it takes for not one, not two, not three, but four or more nameless side characters to do a 'jump scare' turn around reveal. Demons might be a romp, but it's a shit romp ... like a quickie shag when you're just bored and not even all that randy ... a brief amount of goodness, but when compared to something even only a little bit better, it's just not worthwhile. *edit* Just found this - - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPdgouFtPDo

[krisvds]

haha. Great video! And yeah, ok, satire is perhaps a bit too much praise. Cut a non-english speaker some slack. By the way: mijn nederlands is beter dan uw Engels. The demons films aren't great cinema in any sense of the word, true, but I like them for a laugh. They are so over the top you know? And please, applying logics to this kind of exploitation cinema is completely pointless. Even producer Argento's best films (for me: suspiria, inferno) seldom are. They are more surreal, like nightmares. Be it quite dumb and juvenile nightmares in this case. Too bad you didn't enjoy them. Have you seen any of Lambero Bava's dad's films BTW? I reckon you will like them a whole lot more. Especially Black Sunday and Twitch of the death nerve.

[MinionZombie]

I saw Twitch of the Death Nerve/Bay of Blood - didn't care for it either. I appreciate it for it's position in horror cinema, but I simply didn't enjoy it that much. Again I was expecting that I'd dig it, but again it was the confused plotting and general muddle of it all that put me off. On the other hand I watched The Bird With The Crystal Plumage last night, and that was a far better experience. Typically Argento (or rather, typically Argento when he was pumping out good flicks), but the 'twist reveal' ending was all a bit thrown in at the end, which didn't exactly clear things up properly. It was more interested in style - and the early sequence showing an attempted murder at an art gallery proves that in spades - and style is what it does very well indeed. The plot is a bit thin, but even still, it moves on in a sensible direction throughout - not a jumbled mess of stuff happening like Demons 1 and 2. There's a clear vision to Crystal Plumage, whereas Demons 1 and 2 feel very much a whole barrel of ideas from four different people splattered onto a canvas in some vague order. I can enjoy a good old romp like the next person - something like Return of the Living Dead - but the key thing with that, compared to the Demons flicks, is that the plot makes sense and events occur not at random, but for a decent enough reason. The pacing is far better, the characters are better drawn (and all have names), and it's much, much clearer in its vision as to what it wants to be.

[krisvds]

I saw Twitch of the Death Nerve/Bay of Blood - didn't care for it either. I appreciate it for it's position in horror cinema, but I simply didn't enjoy it that much. Again I was expecting that I'd dig it, but again it was the confused plotting and general muddle of it all that put me off. On the other hand I watched The Bird With The Crystal Plumage last night, and that was a far better experience. Typically Argento (or rather, typically Argento when he was pumping out good flicks), but the 'twist reveal' ending was all a bit thrown in at the end, which didn't exactly clear things up properly. It was more interested in style - and the early sequence showing an attempted murder at an art gallery proves that in spades - and style is what it does very well indeed. The plot is a bit thin, but even still, it moves on in a sensible direction throughout - not a jumbled mess of stuff happening like Demons 1 and 2. There's a clear vision to Crystal Plumage, whereas Demons 1 and 2 feel very much a whole barrel of ideas from four different people splattered onto a canvas in some vague order. I can enjoy a good old romp like the next person - something like Return of the Living Dead - but the key thing with that, compared to the Demons flicks, is that the plot makes sense and events occur not at random, but for a decent enough reason. The pacing is far better, the characters are better drawn (and all have names), and it's much, much clearer in its vision as to what it wants to be. I like Argento a lot. His films are often examples of style over substance, but on the level of style and photography very few horror directors come close. His Giallo's are fantastic. Out of those I like Profondo Rosso best (great music and art direction), with Tenebrae a close second. His later films, like GAR's, aren't THAT bad, just not as good as what they used to be. Sleepless however is worth a watch if you like Giallo. ON Return of the living dead; that film is so great in all it's trashy silliness little else comes close. Shaun, of course, but that's about it.

[MinionZombie]

Shaun of the Dead - in the realm of "trashy silliness"? *awaits the rumbling of the HPOTD masses*

[krisvds]

GREAT silliness bro, great silliness Perhaps not trashy, but definitely silly. Other than that: spite me with your scorn oh great connaisseurs of all things celluloid.