Originally Posted by
Wyldwraith
Carol (If she even did it, which I doubt very much at this point) knifed Karen and David to try and prevent the disease's spread. NOTHING she has said or done indicates she would kill anyone else now that the disease is rampant. What she WOULD DO is stop the needless RISKING OF LIVES by Herschel's ridiculous "Lets move a body that could reanimate at any moment and spring into action like the Walker that cost Herschel his leg, just so people dont have to see the dead being knifed to prevent reanimation.
Well she did kill two people. She did sit down at the all prestigious counsel(that so far agrees with Rick, with heavy hearts IMO) and after a decision to isolate them, she went behind everyones back and did the knife trick. Had she not been caught and the next person up came down with symptoms you guarantee she wouldnt continue on her personal belief system? She is not evil but she is cold and that shit isnt gonna go over well with people fighting for their lives.
You all do understand that the death of the man who came out of the cell to try and protect Herschel when the Walker grabbed him, his blood is on Herschel's hands. Had a) Herschel done as Doc Caleb suggested and started carrying the shotgun, no problem. b) If they weren't being so prissy about disposal of the dead, there wouldn't have been a near-repeat of the Patrick-Walker-overrun of Cell Block D. Glenn nearly died because of Herschel's policies. The man is selfless to a fault, and has admirable humanity, compassion and wisdom in many areas...but his hesitancy when it comes to dealing with Walkers directly just cost the life of someone who wasn't sick.
Oh no no no. Now are we going to put Hershel in front of the counsel for punishment? This is rediculous. Hershel is risking his own life to help those people and they seem grateful for it. No doubt some unsafe actions by everyone in that block. But what did Hershel say to that man shortly before this went down? And the guy did what? In this world if your head isnt on a swivel, your gonna get bit. Hell even Hershel told everyone to stay in their cell when the zombie was on top of him. I hate to bring John J Rambo into this but "Live for something or die for nothing".
I strongly believe that had she returned to the Prison, Carol would've been right in there with Herschel, allowing desperately needed rest on Glenn and Sasha's part...and would only knife those who were already gone. I believe it's very difficult to deny that Herschel's moralizing, coupled with his understandable fatigue, just cost a life that didnt need to be lost.
When did Morality become an evil? The man got bit because of his own actions not Hershel willing to give his life to help people. Those people arent bitching that he is in their or cheering for him to knife them in their presence.
That's without even getting into the fact the Prison is so critically undermanned that Rick's pre-apocalypse moral code is becoming more of a hindrance with every passing moment. Carol is not a serial killer, and even if she DID do it, and even if it was a bad call, exile is the same as slow execution. Look at how things went for Michonne and Andrea, and they had each other. But Rick has a penchant for killing-without-killing...as if not pulling a trigger or thrusting with a blade somehow makes him less a killer.
So if Rick put a .357 through her brain in that neighborhood we're not flipping sides? There is a difference. If Rick did that I would not have sided with him. Carol is cold not a serial killer, we agree. But if we're discussing the weakness of morality how can a weapon, a vehicle and supplies and a new cunning attitude be equaled to killing her out right? If he dropped her in a pit of walkers again I would be completely against Rick.
I'm still holding onto hope that Rick's eventually going to get a clue, but right now his pre-apocalypse moralizing is annoying to watch, and his judgmental behavior when it suits him is downright ruining the character. What Rick is essentially saying is this: "I don't want to be responsible for the heavy decisions....until something happens and I change my mind, then I want to be free to exercise unilateral punishment in a way I am willing to kill others for doing."
Rick can be annoying to me as well. I didnt like farmer only Rick. Hated his Michonne decision. Being a leader isnt fun for him. He doesnt go to bed giddy about the decisions the next day. Who has Rick killed for doing the same things that he has done? He didnt execute Tiny on the spot after an injury that was believed to be a death sentence. The two prisoners and shoot out at the bar I cant see even bothering to justify. I know this much. It is far easier to critique a leader than stand up and lead.
Rick can't have it both ways. Either the buck stops with him, or he has to stop making calls that are life and death for others. In a very unfair, very arbitrary apocalypse, its a sort of unfair the group shouldn't have to deal with, having Rick just jump in and do what he wants whenever he feels moved to do so.
Maybe they agree with his decisions.
I could make an argument that Shane could, using the EXACT SAME reasoning, said "I'm making the decision to bust open the barn and eliminate the Walkers inside for ME."
He can and did. Cant argue.
How's it different? Rick perceived Carol as a threat, so he got rid of her via his sense of entitlement to make such calls. Shane perceived that creaky-ass barn with its mini-horde of barely-contained Walkers as an imminent threat, and made a unilateral decision that was actually more valid than Rick's decision to oust Carol, because Shane announced his intentions prior to taking action, armed everyone, and let their willingness or unwillingness to participate in the Walker extermination speak for itself.
Watch the Mythbusters episode they referenced in last night's Talking Dead. Adam and Jamie empirically proved that the depicted # of Walkers in the barn could NOT ONLY breach it, but that a single surge of the majority of the Walker-bodies (you know, the type of behavior they exhibit ALL THE TIME at the Prison fence) would in Adam's words "Snap that 2x4 like a twig."
It's the SAME principle, like it or not. Worse, let's say that every major character recovers...Rick's actions have invalidated the Council. He's saying "If logistically speaking you guys aren't immediately available to weigh in on a major issue, I reserve the right to go over your heads and do whatever I think is best." Why have a Council if that's the case? Rick didn't even TRY to work within the system they've created. Carol could easily have been incarcerated until such time as the Council members either recovered and could address the situation, or various Council members die and replacements are voted in to address the issue.
I think the council members would agree that if decisions need to be made, make them. Dont wait on someone that may never return. Again I would have taken Carol back and sat her down in front of Hershel and Maggie and spilled the beans. Thats just me. But I dont think Rick deserves the hate he gets. And if Carol was imprisoned doesnt that go against your idea of lack of manpower and helping out. How can she be along side Hershel and imprisoned?
Frankly, the Tyreese is going to rage out argument doesn't hold water either. He's such a loose cannon presently that he's a CLEAR AND PRESENT danger to himself and others.
Actually I dont see Tyrese going rage murder on Carol had that played out so I agree here. I think he would be so shocked, hurt and disgusted that he asked Carol to look after his sick sister and she cowardly on more than one occassion didnt fess up. And would the rest of the group stood by and watched Tyrese beat her to death? I doubt that because that morality gets in the way. I think Rick looked at the totality of events and made a call.
A very good episode in so many ways, but I feel they're straying into non-fun territory with the Rick character...as he now does the very things he's killed others for doing, and doesn't seem to have any internal realization of that fact.
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