GAR Dead Films - Universe and Timeline

[The Alive Man]

A quick way to explain it is Back to the Future 2, where Doc provides a basic explanation in less than 30 seconds. There, it's the same universe but different timelines. No. It's an altered timeline, but ALWAYS one timeline.

[EvilNed]

No. It's an altered timeline, but ALWAYS one timeline. It's two paralell ones. Chaos theory sort of thing, you know.

[The Alive Man]

Are you talking about the "alternate" 1985 A.C. caused by Old Biff (from the future) giving the book to his younger counterpart in 1955 A.C.? According to the "rules" set by the 'BACK TO THE FUTURE' saga, that manipulating event wiped out the old timeline (LITERALLY) and replaced it with a new one.

[radiokill]

I guess I'll knock the dust off of The History of Time later...

[The Alive Man]

I guess I'll knock the dust off of The History of Time later... Stephen Hawkings? Is the book I'm reading right now, before to go to sleep! Beautiful!

[radiokill]

Stephen Hawkings? Is the book I'm reading right now, before to go to sleep! Beautiful! yeah, I think a few quotes from that book could fix this debate

[EvilNed]

Are you talking about the "alternate" 1985 A.C. caused by Old Biff (from the future) giving the book to his younger counterpart in 1955 A.C.? According to the "rules" set by the 'BACK TO THE FUTURE' saga, that manipulating event wiped out the old timeline (LITERALLY) and replaced it with a new one. It couldn't have wiped the old timeline out since Marty and Doc were still timetraveling. It's highly unlikely, given the state that the world had turned into, that they would be the exact same as before. Thus, there must have been at least two timelines.

[The Alive Man]

EvilNed, EVERYONE in the world knows that the BACK trilogy somehow goofed it. It's not based on timeline splints, that's for sure, because the erase-and-rewrite timeline concept was well estabilished by the FIRST (brilliant) movie. Marty and Doc should have disappeared (do you remember the "disappearing pic" that Marty used as Time-O-Meter in BTTF1?), you're right, but they didn't. The TIMELINE is one, even if altered. It's not supposed to BE this way according to the FIRST movie, but everyone in the world knows that the BACK sequels messed it up. Ask to the hardcore fans. They will say the same thing. I FOUND IT: "According to Doctor Emmett Brown in Back to the Future Part II, whenever a time-traveler alters key events occurring in the past or future, they effectively bring an alternate timeline into existence at their point-of-entry, and their original timeline is erased, even though its events are not forgotten by the time-traveler. Thus, every time jump depicted in the Back to the Future saga “destroys” a current timeline and “creates” a new one, although Doc Brown often uses the phrase “erased from existence” to describe the deleterious effects of this process." From Wiki. I was right.

[EvilNed]

A movie sets it's own rules. YOU cannot decide in what manner the Back to the Future films should run and how they should work. The directors do. The same way it goes for all timelines. And as for your WIKIPEDIA source... I have no further comment. All I'm saying is that noone can decide for me if I wish to write a story about alternate timelines what rules it should follow. Timelines in themselves are often just used in Science-Fiction. And Science-Fiction is often about creating things that aren't possible.

[The Alive Man]

A movie sets it's own rules. YOU cannot decide in what manner the Back to the Future films should run and how they should work. The directors do. The same way it goes for all timelines. And as for your WIKIPEDIA source... I have no further comment. All I'm saying is that noone can decide for me if I wish to write a story about alternate timelines what rules it should follow. Timelines in themselves are often just used in Science-Fiction. And Science-Fiction is often about creating things that aren't possible. BACK TO THE FUTURE authors themselves explained the mechanics of their timeline(s): http://www.bttf.com/film_faq.htm It's *CANON*, fanon, everything. It is estabilished by the first movie and following entries in the saga, and fully depicted ON SCREEN. Trust me, man! As far as GAR is concerned, I agree with you (I firmly believe in the "now" set by THE STRETCH concept) but I say that an UNIVERSE can't PHYSICALLY contain more timelines, just one "at the time". You can alter that same timeline, of course, or make it valid through the insurgence of paradoxes (too). If you split a timeline in two parallel timelines, then what you get is TWO parallel universes. Not ONE UNIVERSE! When I - sci-fi writer - "create" an universe, I can ALMOST do everything I want, but there is one BASIC concept to keep intact: an universe can deal only with one timeline (indipendently to what HAPPENS to that timeline - modifications; altering; paradoxes) because it's logic and intuitive reasoning you CAN'T really really really SKIP. Two timelines = Two universes. So, if you don't agree with the Stretch, what you get it's a set of FOUR separated but similar universes, containing EACH one timeline, featuring each a Zombie outbreak which unfortunately occured at some point.

[radiokill]

...sci-fi writer... Are you published? I now invite you to shamelessly hock your work!

[The Alive Man]

Although I believe Land was set in the same timeline and universe, I had to choose the Alive Man option. Hell, it's the only vote he's gonna get and I'm an 'underdog' kind of guy! I love KENT. Definitely. Are you published? I now invite you to shamelessly hock your work! I will do that via PM. Many thanks Radio!

[EvilNed]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this The Alive Man, because I don't see how one universe can have multiple timelines. I understand your reasoning, but it doesn't convince me nor do I think it has too. Back to the Future is, to me, a universe that has several timelines. Well. At least two. having thought about it some more, I think that while most people generally agree on what a Timeline means, "Universe" is a bit more of a sketchy subject. This is probably why we disagree.

[Philly_SWAT]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this The Alive Man, because I don't see how one universe can have multiple timelines. I understand your reasoning, but it doesn't convince me nor do I think it has too. Back to the Future is, to me, a universe that has several timelines. Well. At least two. having thought about it some more, I think that while most people generally agree on what a Timeline means, "Universe" is a bit more of a sketchy subject. This is probably why we disagree. Here is my take on the discussion that you and The Alive Man are having. An example that I used in my initial post was this: For example, you could have a movie showing the story of Hitler, and another movie looking at a story of what would have happened if Hitler had been killed in the middle of WWII. Both would exist in the same universe, our own, the “real universe”. One would be a movie based on fact, a story we already know, the other would take place in a “different timeline”, one in which Hitler would be killed, and how that would affect the timeline of events that follow. It would still exist in our universe, but the timeline would be different. The fact that events that did not happen are in the movie does not mean it is in a different universe, only that the timeline was changed. Both of these fictional movies would exist in the same universe. They would exist in separate timelines within that universe. But they are in fact separate movies, therefore, it is not like there are two timelines existing in that same universe at the same time. They both take place in the "real universe". One is based on fact, and shows what happened in the "real timeline", the one that we are currently moving in. The other is based on fiction, and exists in our "real" universe, but a separate timeline that the one we are in now. As far as the Back to the Future discussions goes, those were made to be comedy/action movies, and there are a lot of problem with those movies to where they can not be used to accurately describe these issues. Of the many problems that come to mind is this....when Marty's mother, back when she is in high school, meets "Calvin Klein", a new guy in town who gets the best of Biff, a guy who she wants to "bone", she wouldnt recognize that her son when she gets older looks exactly indentical to "Calvin"? She and her as of yet not conceived son were interacting with each other, obviously they were exisiting in the same universe. Then, when Marty goes "back to the future", whether you say that the timeline had changed, or that the universe has changed, he is now in a different....."place" than when the movie started. His girlfriend is still there, his parents are still there, Biff is still there, but now Biff is an idiot and his Dad is all cool and successful. The reasons for these changes, whether they be to timeline or universe, are because of Marty's actions "in the past". So his mother he sees back in the future, is the same person who wanted to screw him back in the past. And she doesnt recognize that at all? That makes no sense. But like I said, this was a comedy piece, where such questions were not really addressed, and they shouldnt have been.

[creepntom]

Well, are far as you know, in the "real" universe that we exist in, would an earthquake, even the greatest earthquake every known, drop someone down a 1000 feet below where dinasaurs and sleezstacks roam? If not, then Land of the Lost would exist in a different universe. sorry dude, not trying to bogart your thread or anything, i just don't understand the parallel universe theory in any form, much less the zombie world although to a degree, that'd be kinda cool if you knew in a parallel universe somewhere humans are fighting zombies for survival sorta like planet of the apes i guess, only zombies instead