TWD 2x02 "Bloodletting" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Thorn]

What a superb episode. This is exactly what Im looking for from TWD. Stealthily creeping around looking for supplies. Philosophical discussion about the nature of the apocalypse. Friendship. Family. Danger. Action. Its all their for me. Herschel is going to be a great character. The actor playing him gives out such a sombre demeanour. An educated man conflicted between faith and science and the people have read the comic know where this leads. Can't wait for that to play out. Loved the parallels with Rick and Carl being shot. It worked really well with Lori and Shane being the strong ones and its not a stretch to see how they ended up comforting each other while Rick was in a coma. I've really grown to like this Shane since this show began. He really is doing what he thinks is best and he should be applauded for the way he's behaved since Rick turned up. He's been a very good friend to Rick and continues to be despite his fling with his wife although that is obviously going to come to a head at some point. Now we know T-Dog's name. Theodore. No wonder he's called T-Dog. Im worried for the guy though now he has a fever. Hmmm. I wonder whats causing that? Where the hell is Sophia? I really hope they don't drag that on for too long. I understand they are using it so the group can explore the woods and find out how certain people reacted to the end of the world but if it goes on too much longer the audience is going to get bored. Except the whole contemplating killing him in cold blood so he could take his wife and family, while in the woods thing. I liked the episode a lot, great use of flashbacks to set the story and drive along your level of care for the people involved. Great parallels. Amazing acting, great settings and costuming. It is likely my second favorite episode to date. I loved the Zombies at the rescue station, lots of military and such which makes sense given what it was, they kind of stuck around after they died. What I didn't like was this: Shane had a plan for getting into the trailer and none for getting out short of opening the door and standing there? Any good military man, law enforcement officer, or person with half a brain always has an entry and an exit strategy. Getting in is half the battle, getting out is what matters. You got in? Awesome! Got the supplies? Great. Praying you make it out with them and not planning your way it means you are risking killing two people, and a child due to your failure and lack of foresight. This really bothered me. That did not ruin it for me mind, you I loved it and agree lot's of zombies, in typical zombie horror. Sneaking around, scavenging for supplies, and trying to do something then you have a chase and a "barricade" situation. Zombie action at it's finest.

[mpokera]

I loved the Zombies at the rescue station, lots of military and such which makes sense given what it was, they kind of stuck around after they died. What I didn't like was this: Shane had a plan for getting into the trailer and none for getting out short of opening the door and standing there? Any good military man, law enforcement officer, or person with half a brain always has an entry and an exit strategy. Getting in is half the battle, getting out is what matters. You got in? Awesome! Got the supplies? Great. Praying you make it out with them and not planning your way it means you are risking killing two people, and a child due to your failure and lack of foresight. This really bothered me. That did not ruin it for me mind, you I loved it and agree lot's of zombies, in typical zombie horror. Sneaking around, scavenging for supplies, and trying to do something then you have a chase and a "barricade" situation. Zombie action at it's finest. And there are plenty of reasons for lots of zombies to be hanging around there, since it was a last stand/rescue station and would have been overran the swarm would have likely still been there from that. Many people dont realize that most zombies dont actively hunt for food, they arent that smart, they only react to stimuli signaling prey. Lacking that they often just mill about aimlessly or even settle down and wait for something to happen (bus, church, etc) But as to the lack of preparation or thought as to how they would get out of the trailer? Amen Thorn, that really bothered me as well, the lack of planning an exit route/strategy was unbelievable, especially in people who have survived this far. But then again these people CONTINUALLY seem to totally lack any sense of impending danger if they aren't actually looking at zombies this very second. They never post a lookout (campfire massacre anyone?) the scenes with Dale and T-dog bothered me for that reason, they never bothered to be looking around, especially when they were sitting against the side of the RV, I kept imagining a walker (or herd) approaching from the other side and them never noticing it till it walked around the edges.

[kidgloves]

Except the whole contemplating killing him in cold blood so he could take his wife and family, while in the woods thing. Which is why i said behaved. Rick walked into his crosshairs. Shane didn't pull the trigger -- -------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 PM ---------- messy kid, strawberry jam all over the place. Little bollox, just wait til yer ma sees that, she'll go mad.

[bassman]

Maybe they thought they could make it out of the trailer before the walkers' attention shifted away from the road flares? Obviously they weren't quick enough if that was the case...

[Thorn]

I am sorry I think you are splitting hairs, at the end of the day the guy nearly shot his friend in cold blood to kill him and take what he wanted for his own, the face he didn't do it doesn't make hi ma good guy. Also there was someone standing close to hi mat the time, who knows if he decided not to because he wanted to or because he felt the footsteps as they say. How about when he sexually assaulted Lori in the CDC? Look I like the guy too but he doesn't get a pass on being a scumbag when he is one no more than Rick does for his faults or anyone else which is kind of the point. mpokera that is a good point and I never thought of it, no way I hang out on the side of the trailer without being more alert and aware after all they have been through, and the horror of the herd not long ago I am in full on survival mode. As to your point bassman, it is of course possible but if it were you or me we wouldn't leave that to chance .You have no idea what is in the trailer, how long it is going to take, what kind of resistance you are going to meet inside. You can't time yourself based on how long the flare is going to burn. So if that is the case you need to have a contingency. You always plan a worse case scenario, and a best. There is always a plan B, but for them and it was distracting to watch they opened the door, and paused. They just waited for the crap to hit the fan. This is lazy writing/editing or limited time to tell a good story. I don't think either of us would throw our lives away on assumption, or doom the kid to die on wild speculation. My life, and the life of my best friend's kid would mean more to me than that.

[kidgloves]

I am sorry I think you are splitting hairs, at the end of the day the guy nearly shot his friend in cold blood to kill him and take what he wanted for his own, the face he didn't do it doesn't make hi ma good guy. Also there was someone standing close to hi mat the time, who knows if he decided not to because he wanted to or because he felt the footsteps as they say. How about when he sexually assaulted Lori in the CDC? Look I like the guy too but he doesn't get a pass on being a scumbag when he is one no more than Rick does for his faults or anyone else which is kind of the point. No problem Thorn. Im not a splitting hairs type of guy anyway. I guess im just rooting for him because the character has had abuse from comic book fans since day one and now in the show he's had this series of events that must have majorly screwed with his head. All in a goddam zombie apocalypse.

[Wyldwraith]

Agreed on all counts Thorn, And I hate to keep harping on this, but what is with Andrea experiencing terrifying and/or infuriating things and doing nothing about it except give the guy responsible really dirty looks? WTH? They put a good deal of effort into the way she was blindside-bushwhacked by that Walker. Even doing the dramatic "last moments of your life" slowdown thing as Andrea frantically kicked at the Walker to keep it away. Then everyone is just like "She had a run-in with a Walker, it was a close call." Case closed, Andrea gives Dale a dirty look and stomps up into the RV. Accuse me of nitpicking if you want, but I feel REALLY strongly that IRL someone who just went through what Andrea did with that last Walker would have had a MUCH DIFFERENT reaction, with a lot more to that reaction than a dirty look and going to pout. Facts are facts, without She-Ra the Bat Wielder's intervention, Andrea was going to suffer EXACTLY the death she was so desperate to avoid she chose to get blown up rather than risk it. After the condescending confrontation over her gun, and EVERYTHING Andrea said coming true as a result of Dale and Shane's call, I can't believe that Andrea didn't march right up to Dale and growl "Give. Me. My. Fucking. Gun! Or I'm going to KILL YOU!" You KNOW, after what happened, that Daryl would've backed her. Without Rick OR Shane, Daryl is the only real man present besides Glenn (and Glenn isn't the confrontational type). Andrea would have won that fight handily. At this point though, I've gone from annoyed about the issue to just Bleh. If she doesn't care enough to act more assertively on her own behalf, then fuck her basically IMO. Not that Dale isn't still Evil, just that it's gone past ridiculous. Finally, will give ya an Amen on the Have an Exit Strategy assertion. It literally blew my mind when they creaked the door open and just stood there until sighted. If they were gonna go that plan-less about it, vault the damn trailer banister, mow over whichever zombie you crash into, and try to bull your way through. Stupid and foolhardy, but better than making 2 laps around a square of ever-decreasing area with ever more Walkers by the second.

[AcesandEights]

Case closed, Andrea gives Dale a dirty look and stomps up into the RV. If they leave it there then, yes, that'd be silly, but I expect some follow up on it from the writers. Things will either: come to a (possibly disastrous) head, Dale will proactively apologize and give or push for her to get her gun back before things blow up, or the writing staff will drop the ball and not much will come of it till further down the line. Andrea got back to the RV near the end of the episode and I assume she is in some state of shock/emotional turbluence and the follow up is left for future installments...though seeing how things have been paced so far, I'd expect a resolution sooner rather than later.

[Thorn]

Hey Kid no worries I understand I like Shane a lot this season, minus the whole wanting to run out on the group, he is a man of action and he is best when displayed that way a man who feels and does not who is handicapped by his own emotions and sense of duty. I sadly relate more to Rick but man, you need a Shane around too. Wyld I agree 100%, they are portraying Andrea in a very inconsistent and unbelievable way, I find it hard to support her and I at one point did like her character right now she is a wall flower that wants to be a grizzly without the teeth to get it done. I thought the same thing I was like "Really? Just stand there and let them all turn and face you? Don't open the door and throw I don't know... another flare and run? Just stand there? Did you forget that flares worked? Couldn't have saved one? Pretty sure I yelled "WTF man run!" like you said it wouldn't have been the best option to shoulder through and all but it beats standing there.

[AcesandEights]

Sadly, if you guys are looking for believable reactions during an event wherein people start to rise from the dead and feast upon the living and ensuing emotional turmoil that and the fall of society would entail...the basic cable format might not be up to it. Hell, an hourly show where this is the case might be too grim to be anything but repugnant to anyone but the most base individuals. Kind of a good topic for discussion, though: how realistic have the emotional reactions been? People keep opining from moralist or tactical standpoints, but I think it's the sociological and psychological approach that doesn't really measure up, and probably for good enough reason.

[Ragnarr]

Did anyone else notice the weird instant lag of time/disparity of distance in the scene where Andrea is attacked by the zombie hiding behind the tree? Andrea is walking with the group. She very very briefly gets slowed by/tangled in some brush just prior to the zombie popping out. She screams and falls down. The rest of the group is suddenly like 50 yards away from her? Now here comes the farmer's daughter galloping on horseback with her baseball bat. The group is STILL running to get to Andrea. My point is that it seemed obvious to me that the writers wanted (needed) Andrea to be a long distance away from the rest of the group so that they were not close enough to defend her. Take a look at the scene again. Maybe it was just the brand of coffee I was drinking during the show, but I don't think so. The other thing that bugged me was when Shane was at the medical supply trailer. They were all stealthy in order to get INTO the trailer, but after gathering the supplies and preparing to leave, Shane just (BLAMO) swings the door wide open? Doesn't make sense to me. You'd think they would at least show them peek out the door, or attempt to find a different way out first (floor, roof, other side of the trailer, window, vent, or lure the zombies into the trailer door on the right while they slip out the trailer door on the left, etc.). Don't misunderstand any of my comments on TWD. I love this show and look forward to each episode.

[Sammich]

I am curious as to how the doctor knew there were 6 bullet fragments in the kid without access to xray equipment. When I heard the part about him being a veterinarian it instantly reminded me of Saul's mom in the "We're Alive" zombie radio play. Oh well, TWD still is the best zombie thing going right now.

[Wyldwraith]

Personally, I'm opining from what I consider a common-sense and yes, on some issues a morality-centric basis. I disagree Aces that believable interpersonal reactions are too much to expect in either a) A Zombie Apocalypse setting, or b) Basic cable allowances. If you've seen Breaking Bad, especially the more recent seasons, you know that interpersonally-speaking TWD hasn't even NEARED "the line" AMC has drawn. Savagely graphic PROLONGED bludgeoning, cutting and (finally) shooting a barely-alive cartel man weeping like a child and begging for his life as he struggles with everything he has to get to his hands and knees is the sort of thing that's become standard fare on what was (Prior to the release of TWD: Season 1 of course) AMC's far-and-away then #1 show. Breaking Bad has shown in graphic, no camera tricks to shy away from displaying the raw detail of acts which at times can only be called violently dissociative AT BEST, and within a split-hair of taking #1 in the Top 3 most graphically violent Basic Cable-originating footage of all time at worst. I agree however that the "mini-cultural" (of TWD survivor-group) dialog and interpersonal aspects of TWD haven't gotten nearly as much coverage from our community here as the moral, philosophical, tactical and speculative aspects have. Probably because those themes aren't nearly as "in your face" and community-polarizing as the moral/philosophical/tactical/speculative aspects. Still, I am looking for and reacting to what I perceive to be realistic and "common sense" (and/or the lack thereof) reactions out of the characters. That said, you do make a good point Aces. About there not having been enough plot-continuity aired in just the 2 episodes to draw "and that's it" conclusions about ongoing plot elements and character actions/reactions to events as yet. While I disagree based on everything else they've shown regarding Andrea's personality that if she was already feeling an increase in anger and other, more complex emotions towards Dale as a result of the exceedingly negative consequences she's experienced (and very vocally articulated her anticipation of experiencing those consequences, which then occurred just as she'd said they would) because of Dale's decisions and resulting actions that she wouldn't have acted on those feelings as soon as she saw Dale (rather than going to brood in the RV), I'm willing to concede that it may just be a matter of pacing as you say. If that's the case, my wishlist for Ep. #3 definitely includes Andrea being direct (not to mention smart enough to do it while Dale doesn't have the other controlling/more dominant males to back him up) about having it out with Dale once and for all about his controlling behavior. Incidentally, it would be an awesome time for T-Dog to reveal in an ill-thought-out fevered outburst that Dale's been BSing them about the status of the RV. That'd make for some SERIOUS tension and intriguing series of reactions and responses among those at the RV. Prolly won't happen with them seeming to have indicated X people are staying at the RV to wait for the dragging/boring plot device, err I mean Sophia while Y people go on to Hershel's farm. Still, I'm holding out hope for the Dale/Andrea thing to come to a head. After all, one way or another, their confrontation has definitely been compelling to watch. As evidenced by the discussion here.

[Ragnarr]

I am curious as to how the doctor knew there were 6 bullet fragments in the kid without access to xray equipment. When I heard the part about him being a veterinarian it instantly reminded me of Saul's mom in the "We're Alive" zombie radio play. Oh well, TWD still is the best zombie thing going right now. I think the doctor mentioned that there was six entry wounds in Carl. I missed him saying that myself and asked my gf the same question. She told me that the doc mentioned six wounds.

[mpokera]

Did anyone else notice the weird instant lag of time/disparity of distance in the scene where Andrea is attacked by the zombie hiding behind the tree? I noticed this as well, my comment to my wife was "Why the Hell was she so far away from the rest?" And if it was because she tripped momentarily or something why would they have just gone on and not waited for her? Its another example of them acting like the zombies arent a regular threat. They should be walking in defensive formations and watching all around them at all times. I love the show but I think this was a bit of lazy writing, they obviously wanted to intro Maggie to us as a BAMF and likely to have Andrea imperiled as a way of moving along her conflict with Dale. I understand all that but I find it hard to believe an unarmed woman (or man for that matter) would let themselves get that far from the group when it has been established that there are indeed zombies in the area.