What do you Americans make of this Trump derangement syndrome (TDS)?

[JDP]

In addition to some of the things that have been pointed out, Trump is also one of the sloppiest liars ever. It almost (but not quite) stopped being funny and amusing after so many times this guy has been caught in flagrante delicto lying through his teeth: "I have never met this person!", "I have never said that!", "I have never been there!", etc., only for proof to the contrary to easily come to the surface shortly after he tells the lie. Sometimes he himself even openly contradicts his very own lies. It seems like he has a hard time trying to keep up with all of them. It is true that other politicians also lie, but: 1- not as often, 2- not as blatantly, & 3- not as sloppily.

[blind2d]

That's not at all what a fascist is. And only fascists should be called fascists, because otherwise you look like you don't know what you're talking about. If Trump is a fascist, then we need a new word to call the fascists - because there's quite clearly people who are worse than Trump. Anyone who values a healthy and adult debate would refrain from calling anyone who's not a fascist a fascist. There are real fascists out there. Also, both Obama and Bush Jr. were fearmongering. All US presidents to date have put emphasis on national pride, and most (except maybe Jimmy carter) has put emphasis on the military. As for would-be dictatorial behavior... I've not seen anything of the like from Trump. ...Okay, then what is a fascist, Ned? I agree that they are bad and real, and even that maybe somewhere there are people out there even worse than Trump, sure. ...Also this isn't a debate, it's a discussion. Not sure why you would use that word. But yeah, who do you consider to be the "real fascists", Ned? Yes. Again, that's part of the gig. But he wanted a military parade in the capital... Like a dictator would have. And he's clearly narcissistic, like a dictator. And he thinks that nothing the President does should be illegal, right? So when you say you've not seen anything like that... is that what you're talking about?

[EvilNed]

...Okay, then what is a fascist, Ned? I agree that they are bad and real, and even that maybe somewhere there are people out there even worse than Trump, sure. ...Also this isn't a debate, it's a discussion. Not sure why you would use that word. But yeah, who do you consider to be the "real fascists", Ned? Yes. Again, that's part of the gig. But he wanted a military parade in the capital... Like a dictator would have. And he's clearly narcissistic, like a dictator. And he thinks that nothing the President does should be illegal, right? So when you say you've not seen anything like that... is that what you're talking about? Debate, discussion - whichever you prefer. They're the same thing in my mind. Trump is no less a narcisist than Justin Trudeau - he's just a lot more blunt about it. But almost every single photograph you've seen of Justin Trudeau has been cleverly staged and vetted in order to present an image of a laid back, succesful and handsome prime minister. Yet nobody ever slams him for it, despite him perhaps being even more of a populist than Trump is - just on different agendas. As for fascism, that's quite simple. Fascism is an ideology built around the clear rejection of democracy. It is a belief that individuals should exist to serve the state, and not the other way around. It's pretty much the opposite of what Trump wants. Most countries hold military parades in their capitals, I don't see how that is in any way a sign of being a dictator? The French hold one every single year in Paris on Bastille day...

[ProfessorChaos]

i generally frequent this forum to discuss the works of the late great mr. romero and living-dead related entertainment and despise politics and the extreme divisions they cause among society, so it took a minute to convince myself to weigh in here....but here it goes. donald trump, in my opinion, is a loud-mouthed narcissist who was born on third base and acts like he hit a triple. can't stand him, didn't vote for him (didn't vote for mrs. clinton either, she's no better in my opinion), and think he's not doing much to bridge the divide going on in my country at all... ..but at the same time, he's no hitler, the detention centers in the southwest for people voluntarily crossing our border are not even close to concentration camps, and all the people who live for claiming victimhood in our country have it better than they probably would in any other country at any point in history. trump derangement syndrome is real and quite pitiful in my opinion. the level of fear-mongering and apocalyptic-prophesy by the left is comical. and in case anyone is butthurt and wants to start nit-picking and quoting my every word and counter-arguing every point, please don't waste your time. i'm too busy these days with work and family to sit around and talk circles about this shit. just wanted to throw my $.02 in, have a nice day.

[blind2d]

Debate, discussion - whichever you prefer. They're the same thing in my mind. Trump is no less a narcisist than Justin Trudeau - he's just a lot more blunt about it. But almost every single photograph you've seen of Justin Trudeau has been cleverly staged and vetted in order to present an image of a laid back, succesful and handsome prime minister. Yet nobody ever slams him for it, despite him perhaps being even more of a populist than Trump is - just on different agendas. As for fascism, that's quite simple. Fascism is an ideology built around the clear rejection of democracy. It is a belief that individuals should exist to serve the state, and not the other way around. It's pretty much the opposite of what Trump wants. Most countries hold military parades in their capitals, I don't see how that is in any way a sign of being a dictator? The French hold one every single year in Paris on Bastille day... ... So a conversation is the same thing as an argument to you? That's... odd, to say the least. What is this, fallacy of comparison? Do I like Trudeau? Not in the least. Stop getting off topic. Oh right, the dictionary says... No wait, the dictionary is way more on my side than yours here. :/ Funny that. Are you confusing fascism with a dictatorship? The Romans had their oligarchy, y'know. Still fascist rule. Right, Trump doesn't want people to serve the state, he wants them to serve HIM. How is that any better? And thanks for ignoring all the points I've made that you can't think of a come-back for, I guess. Still waiting to hear from Neil as well.

[EvilNed]

... So a conversation is the same thing as an argument to you? That's... odd, to say the least. Never said that, but this seems like a very important point for you to make. Whatever makes you feel happy. Oh right, the dictionary says... No wait, the dictionary is way more on my side than yours here. :/ Funny that. Are you confusing fascism with a dictatorship? The Romans had their oligarchy, y'know. Still fascist rule. Right, Trump doesn't want people to serve the state, he wants them to serve HIM. How is that any better? And thanks for ignoring all the points I've made that you can't think of a come-back for, I guess. Still waiting to hear from Neil as well. No, I'm not confusing fascism with a dictatorship. I simply pointed out in all the ways you cannot equate Trump with a fascists, because he's simply... not a fascist. I already explained to you what a fascist is - it is a pretty well defined political ideology, you know. You keep pointing out that "Trump acts like a dictator, thus he is a fascist" but you don't seem to be able to point out any one thing that Trump does that other democratic world leaders do not. It seems to me that you've made up your mind about this, but don't have the arguments to support your case.

[blind2d]

Never said that, but this seems like a very important point for you to make. Whatever makes you feel happy. No, I'm not confusing fascism with a dictatorship. I simply pointed out in all the ways you cannot equate Trump with a fascists, because he's simply... not a fascist. I already explained to you what a fascist is - it is a pretty well defined political ideology, you know. You keep pointing out that "Trump acts like a dictator, thus he is a fascist" but you don't seem to be able to point out any one thing that Trump does that other democratic world leaders do not. It seems to me that you've made up your mind about this, but don't have the arguments to support your case. Believe what you want, I suppose. You're clearly not willing to actually listen to me about this. What WERE you trying to say about a discussion being the same as a debate then, Ned? Is a debate not an argument? Is a discussion different from a conversation? Do you even use the same English dictionary as the rest of the world? No offense meant, but it seems like our entire conflict is based on definitions of terms, and not the original point which is that Trump is terrible. I'm pretty sure you would agree with me on that much at least, yeah Ned? Asking you straight out here. Again, no, your definition of "fascist" does not actually match one I could find anywhere. From whence does it come then? Trump lies more than anyone else, at the very very least. I am not going through the list of thousands of terrible things that the man has done with you, as they're all public.

[EvilNed]

Believe what you want, I suppose. You're clearly not willing to actually listen to me about this. What WERE you trying to say about a discussion being the same as a debate then, Ned? Is a debate not an argument? Is a discussion different from a conversation? Do you even use the same English dictionary as the rest of the world? No offense meant, but it seems like our entire conflict is based on definitions of terms, and not the original point which is that Trump is terrible. I'm pretty sure you would agree with me on that much at least, yeah Ned? Asking you straight out here. Again, no, your definition of "fascist" does not actually match one I could find anywhere. From whence does it come then? Trump lies more than anyone else, at the very very least. I am not going through the list of thousands of terrible things that the man has done with you, as they're all public. You do know the origin of the word, term and ideology of fascism, right? If not, then it's got quite an interesting history attached to it. Fascism, as a political ideology, arose in Italy in the early 20th century. It was spearheaded by political leader Benito Mussolini, who later came to be the dictator of Italy. The doctrine of fascism, written by Mussolini, can be read here: http://www.sjsu.edu/people/cynthia.r...of-Fascism.pdf After having read that, and studying the fascist leaders of history, they have one thing incommon. One is the open disdain and rejection of democracy - something Trump does not. The other is the belief that the people should serve the state, Trump does not. You could argue that Trump's economic policies have some similarities with fascism - but if he does then so does every other US president ever. It is, after all, an economic right wing model. Also, I don't believe Trump lies more than anyone else. To quote myself, from the last post: It seems to me that you've made up your mind about this, but don't have the arguments to support your case. Come to think of it, you may be suffering from "Trump derangement syndrome"

[Neil]

...the detention centers in the southwest for people voluntarily crossing our border are not even close to concentration camps, and all the people who live for claiming victimhood in our country have it better than they probably would in any other country at any point in history. When you want some hard truth, you better talk to a man with a God damn eye patch! trump derangement syndrome is real and quite pitiful in my opinion. the level of fear-mongering and apocalyptic-prophesy by the left is comical. We have it here in the UK too! When Trump visited the UK a few weeks back, some folks came to support his arrival, but it didn't take long for the left to enter full Trump Derangement mode! Look at how this poor guy is labelled "nazi scum" and "fascist" before then being assaulted. Look at the wild hatred on their faces, simply because someone dares to not share their opinion! "Nazi scum off our street...Nazi scum off our street...Nazi scum off our street..." simply for daring to support Trump in London!

[blind2d]

You do know the origin of the word, term and ideology of fascism, right? If not, then it's got quite an interesting history attached to it. Fascism, as a political ideology, arose in Italy in the early 20th century. It was spearheaded by political leader Benito Mussolini, who later came to be the dictator of Italy. The doctrine of fascism, written by Mussolini, can be read here: http://www.sjsu.edu/people/cynthia.r...of-Fascism.pdf After having read that, and studying the fascist leaders of history, they have one thing incommon. One is the open disdain and rejection of democracy - something Trump does not. The other is the belief that the people should serve the state, Trump does not. You could argue that Trump's economic policies have some similarities with fascism - but if he does then so does every other US president ever. It is, after all, an economic right wing model. Also, I don't believe Trump lies more than anyone else. To quote myself, from the last post: Come to think of it, you may be suffering from "Trump derangement syndrome" Snopes would disagree with you when it come to Trump's lying habits, or am I thinking politifact? Either one. But I'll admit Trump isn't the ultimate evil: Capitalism is. But it is how we got Trump, so they're very connected. And must I repeat myself that all US Presidents have been pretty terrible? It's a shitty government model overall, not even a true democracy, not even close. Where's your source that Trump "believes in democracy"? He won by electoral college (an oligarchical system if ever there was one). If he really valued or cared about democracy, he would have conceded to Hillary (may she rot in hell). Perhaps Trump is too stupid to be a good fascist, IDK. He's clearly just fumbling his way through life. And again, Trump is very pro-military and police... That is to say, people serving the state. Do you have a horse in this race, Ned? - - - Updated - - - When you want some hard truth, you better talk to a man with a God damn eye patch! We have it here in the UK too! When Trump visited the UK a few weeks back, some folks came to support his arrival, but it didn't take long for the left to enter full Trump Derangement mode! Look at how this poor guy is labelled "nazi scum" and "fascist" before then being assaulted. Look at the wild hatred on their faces, simply because someone dares to not share their opinion! "Nazi scum off our street...Nazi scum off our street...Nazi scum off our street..." simply for daring to support Trump in London! You realize that supporting evil men makes you evil, right Neil? This isn't a complicated issue. Do you... want to be wrong and bad, Neil? Do you really?

[Neil]

You realize that supporting evil men makes you evil, right Neil? This isn't a complicated issue. Do you... want to be wrong and bad, Neil? Do you really? So, you've now added "evil men" to a list of other similar emotive/loaded terms such as "concentration camp", "nazi" and "fascist". It risks simply sounding (being) emotive, opposed to reasoned? It risks display a choice based on feelings instead of considered facts. Ultimately, it risks being very virtue signally IMHO! I mean suggesting choices are simply "wrong" and "bad"? If only the world was that simple in matters like this... But I would say, it is a worrying trend - hence this very thread - that simply demonising someone, makes decision making a lot easier... And if the individual is demonsided enough, no doubt makes you feel good too knowing you then must be "right" and "good".

[EvilNed]

Snopes would disagree with you when it come to Trump's lying habits, or am I thinking politifact? Either one. But I'll admit Trump isn't the ultimate evil: Capitalism is. But it is how we got Trump, so they're very connected. And must I repeat myself that all US Presidents have been pretty terrible? It's a shitty government model overall, not even a true democracy, not even close. Where's your source that Trump "believes in democracy"? He won by electoral college (an oligarchical system if ever there was one). If he really valued or cared about democracy, he would have conceded to Hillary (may she rot in hell). Perhaps Trump is too stupid to be a good fascist, IDK. He's clearly just fumbling his way through life. And again, Trump is very pro-military and police... That is to say, people serving the state. Do you have a horse in this race, Ned? I can't find anything on either snopes or politifact that states "Trump lies more than other people" - so you're going to help me there. But I doubt they did a relative check on how many times he lied compared to other people - often times you don't know when a person is lying so how would you know who was the bigger liar? Trump is just a bad liar. As for the democracy discussion, that's an entirely different debate that I'm not really going into here. But the US is a form of democracy. It is a representative democracy - as almost every single democracy on this planet is. There are pro's and con's with it, but Trump got elected because he got the most electoral votes. That's how democracy works in this country. You may disagree with it, but you can't hold it against Trump. As for being pro-police and military; Yes. Again. Almost US presidents have been. That's something typical of US presidents, not fascists. I'm struggling here to figure out what exactly your definition of a fascist here, because if a fascist is not a believer in a fascistic ideology - then what is it?

[blind2d]

So, you've now added "evil men" to a list of other similar emotive/loaded terms such as "concentration camp", "nazi" and "fascist". It risks simply sounding (being) emotive, opposed to reasoned? It risks display a choice based on feelings instead of considered facts. Ultimately, it risks being very virtue signally IMHO! I mean suggesting choices are simply "wrong" and "bad"? If only the world was that simple in matters like this... But I would say, it is a worrying trend - hence this very thread - that simply demonising someone, makes decision making a lot easier... And if the individual is demonsided enough, no doubt makes you feel good too knowing you then must be "right" and "good". To cast aside all emotion for the sake of logic and facts... well it kills what makes us human, IMO. Are you yourself not virtue signalling for calling out virtue signalling in others? I have considered the facts (unlike Trump and his kind, who ignore the truth and make up their own reality to justify heinous acts), and I have also decided to allow myself to emotionally respond to something that honestly should affect everyone's emotions to at least some level. Do you feel nothing if I bring up the term "holocaust"? I don't think the world is simple, but I know that without a sense of right and wrong, we will only be worse off. Do you disagree? It's a worrying trend that you seem to think that people can't be bad on an individual level, for some reason. Is that really how you feel? Should we stop calling anything and/or everything 'bad' or 'good', Neil? - - - Updated - - - I can't find anything on either snopes or politifact that states "Trump lies more than other people" - so you're going to help me there. But I doubt they did a relative check on how many times he lied compared to other people - often times you don't know when a person is lying so how would you know who was the bigger liar? Trump is just a bad liar. As for the democracy discussion, that's an entirely different debate that I'm not really going into here. But the US is a form of democracy. It is a representative democracy - as almost every single democracy on this planet is. There are pro's and con's with it, but Trump got elected because he got the most electoral votes. That's how democracy works in this country. You may disagree with it, but you can't hold it against Trump. As for being pro-police and military; Yes. Again. Almost US presidents have been. That's something typical of US presidents, not fascists. I'm struggling here to figure out what exactly your definition of a fascist here, because if a fascist is not a believer in a fascistic ideology - then what is it? Again, why do you continue to feel the urge to defend this piece of human garbage? Trump is a terrible liar... and a terrible individual. "I'm not really going into here"... *continues* <- You just did that, Ned. I CAN hold it against Trump, because he's an adult who can make his own choices. Or are you saying no one should take personal responsibility for anything? I fail to see the pros, but please elaborate on those if you wish. The USA is a democratic republic, at the very least. NOT a democracy, though we sure do f*cking love that word, huh? And yes, again, stop diverting in the same way there. I'm holding him accountable for his own actions, as again an independent adult. Should I not? ...I also kind of fail to see the difference between presidents and fascists, so you may have to help me there. Isn't a fascist someone who behaves in a fascist manner?

[Moon Knight]

Politics. Never ends well.

[EvilNed]

Again, why do you continue to feel the urge to defend this piece of human garbage? Trump is a terrible liar... and a terrible individual. "I'm not really going into here"... *continues* <- You just did that, Ned. I CAN hold it against Trump, because he's an adult who can make his own choices. Or are you saying no one should take personal responsibility for anything? I fail to see the pros, but please elaborate on those if you wish. The USA is a democratic republic, at the very least. NOT a democracy, though we sure do f*cking love that word, huh? And yes, again, stop diverting in the same way there. I'm holding him accountable for his own actions, as again an independent adult. Should I not? ...I also kind of fail to see the difference between presidents and fascists, so you may have to help me there. Isn't a fascist someone who behaves in a fascist manner? No, I did not get into the philosophical, ethical or political reasons for why one form of democracy is better or worse than another. That's an entirely different debate. Trump won the US presidential election, so thus he was elected president. I don't even understand what there is to hold against Trump. Your energy would probably be put to better use to try to overhaul the democractic principles of this country, rather than to let one single person - who in this case hasn't acted out of line in any single way - take the blame for something that was simply keeping with the rules of democracy. You seem to have a very difficult time defining what a fascist manner is, as you keep shying away from the question. But should you wish to define it, I'm all ears. But until then I can't take the argument seriously.