TWD 6x13 "The Same Boat" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[bassman]

Decent episode, but I would've liked to have seen more of the group as a whole rather than just Carol and Maggie. So I have a theory regarding a major event from the comics that should be coming up soon. Spoilers for those that haven't read the saviors comic story arc:   In the comics we know that Negan takes Lucille, his vampire bat, to Glenn's head while Glenn screams Maggie's name. This is obviously an event they won't be able to skip in the show's story, but we also know they like to switch characters around and put a twist on things. Given that Glenn had his fake death earlier this season, I have a hard time seeing them killing him off for real in the season finale. But I had the idea that what if they give this death to another character? Glenn is a fan favorite and they've teased with his demise enough this season, so I had the little theory that it might be Abraham. He's been getting this development involving his love for Sasha rather than Rosita, so they could possibly switch it up and have him be Megan's big victim, but he screams for Sasha instead of Rosita. Just an off-the-wall theory of mine. Thoughts?

[JDP]

Does anyone remember if it was established in the previous episodes if Jesus or any other Hilltopper has ever seen Negan? Do we have to assume that they have not? Otherwise there wouldn't be any need for the group to be wondering if they have killed Negan or not. All it would take is for Jesus or whichever other Hilltopper has seen Negan to examine the Saviors' corpses and see if he is among them, that would settle the matter easily.

[Moon Knight]

Does anyone remember if it was established in the previous episodes if Jesus or any other Hilltopper has ever seen Negan? Do we have to assume that they have not? Otherwise there wouldn't be any need for the group to be wondering if they have killed Negan or not. All it would take is for Jesus or whichever other Hilltopper has seen Negan to examine the Saviors' corpses and see if he is among them, that would settle the matter easily. I thought about that but Carol also witnessed Molly claim "We're all Negan", so I would assume they know they are still in some shit. If not then that's a pretty big plot hole. Bassman-   For the biggest impact it has to be either Glenn, Daryl, or Carol. Your theory makes sense but Glenn screaming for Maggie is much more heartbreaking; and that is why my pick is still Glenn getting the bat. Earlier in the season I had Daryl pegged but in order for the story to move along nicely, Glenn makes the most sense. However, after this last episode, Carol has become a candidate. Can they do this to a woman? Man, this is getting intense.

[Neil]

BTW folks thanks for the (continued) considerate use of SPOILER tags to hide away comic book story references etc! It's appreciated!

[MinionZombie]

BTW folks thanks for the (continued) considerate use of SPOILER tags to hide away comic book story references etc! It's appreciated! Here here. Just an off-the-wall theory of mine. Thoughts? My thoughts (comic spoilers ahoy, and theories for the season 6 finale):   I think that maybe because they've done the near death experience arc for Glenn this season, that's why he will die by/in the finale. For one thing that's a huge part of Maggie's story moving forward and, particularly with Glenn having had to sacrifice another part of himself (killing humans now), you could argue that his story is complete. Also, it's such a huge event in the comics that it'd be strange for them not to include it. I have wondered about Abraham - the mention of him and Eugene heading out as a team made me remember how Abraham died in the comics (although I wonder if they'll do that 'sudden bullet from the blue' as they used that mid-sentence death for Axel in season 3) - and I wondered if that was either: A) foreshadowing, or B) a red herrring. If the latter then he could die in the finale - I think your theory is a solid theory, although whether it will come to pass is an entirely different matter. I don't think it would have quite as much story impact as Glenn's death. In many ways Glenn is the moral compass of the show - he's taken that mantle on from both Dale and Hershel - and now that he's sacrificed a big part of that with the attack on the satellite outpost, there's almost a karmic kick in the arse on its way for him. I'll be sad to see any of the characters go, to be honest. However, yes, as also mentioned, I think Carol is being set up as a strong contender for a meeting with Lucille. Will we get two major deaths? Considering there's so few season one cast members remaining on the show, I'd prefer for them to really eek those kills out, so maybe if there was going to be two kills in the finale it could be Abraham and either Glenn or Carol. In terms of Carol, she's been having a lot of development this season, particularly in the last few episodes. Tara and Heath are in danger, but I'm not particularly convinced either of them will bite the dust yet.

[shootemindehead]

Shoot - "lukewarm season" ... ... ... ... you never make any sense to me. You'll understand one day son... Yeh, this year TWD has sort of lost me on occasion. Or rather grabbed me, then threw me aside. I might have to sit down and watch it all in one go during the summer. The show always flows better in a marathon watch rather than week to week, I find. I think maybe the miracle of Glenn and the weak mid-season break has left a bad taste in my mouth. But anyway, yeh, that was the episode of the season for me, so far. So tense, it felt like it was on for just ten minutes. And Carol is still my fave character of entire show. Melissa McBride is nailing that part. Shoot: Still nothing but love, bro.

[Zombie Snack]

Why wouldn't Rick or anyone in the group not think to ask Gregory or Jesus what this Negan guy looks like? Are we too assume Rick asked for a description of this man that he has just been contracted to kill. The entire plan seemed uncharacteristic from our group, but come on, if your going to go snipe hunting, you better know what a snipe is before you get in the woods.

[Bodanki]

Well that was a slog, just spent the last month reading every single review thread for the Walking Dead, from the pilot to this one. You are interesting folk, Wyldewraiths Shane love, Shootem's hissy fits when the "Smell" thing is utilised, good reading. Thought I would finally get involved. (Also hope Wylde comes back, loved his essays on Shane vs Rick and Morgans morality.) I felt Season 6A wasn't as strong as Season 5, but so far 6B has knocked it out of the park. How do I do spoiler tags on this site, just so I don't annoy Neil with Comic spoilers - - - Updated - - - Why wouldn't Rick or anyone in the group not think to ask Gregory or Jesus what this Negan guy looks like? Are we too assume Rick asked for a description of this man that he has just been contracted to kill. The entire plan seemed uncharacteristic from our group, but come on, if your going to go snipe hunting, you better know what a snipe is before you get in the woods. Well I get the impression Hilltop have never seen Negan, he probably does that so he in essence becomes the boogey man, a thing of myth, nobody knows if he actually exists or not, and also to prevent himself becoming a target against possible assassination attempts. Obviously Team Ricks incursions will cause him to come out of hiding to exact retribution. I kinda agree with Ricks pre-emptive strike against the Saviours, though for me the smart thing to do would have been to have someone sly like Daryl watch the Saviours for a week or so, just do nothing but hide and watch, get an idea for what they are about, how they function, maybe follow some of them out on a run just to see where they go. Its rather obvious that the facility they hit is an outpost rather than their main HQ. I guess thats why they introduced the whole thing about it needing to be done now to rescue the Hilltop guy they had kept hostage, to make time a factor. But I think just blundering in with no information whatsoever was a risky move, one that somebody in Team Rick will ultimately pay the price for. - - - Updated - - - comic Spoiler......   yay read the FAQ's. So we know that someone will likely get Lucille'd in the finale, as we know it is Glenn in the comic. I have seen a lot of people say that they think it will be changed up in the TV show and I think that will be a good idea. My theory is that he will pick Glenn from the group and either Carol or Daryl will challenge him on his choice, calling him a racist. If I remember in the comics he initially spurned Michonne as an option for that reason. We will think its gonna be Glenn, but knowing he is about to become a father, i think Daryl or Carol will offer themselves in his place calling him a racist and he will change his choice and kill Daryl or Carol. Having him kill Daryl would be ballsy for AMC seeing as Daryl is the breakout star of the show, but what better way to make the internet explode and make everyone really hate Negan and up the stakes for next season than to have Daryl be the one to be Lucille'd. Like I said, would be ballsy, but also awesome, and it would rival Game Of Thrones Red wedding as the most depressing and shocking TV episode ever!

[facestabber]

I think you may be incorrect Bodanki regarding Hilltop seeing Negan. Jesus said Negan beat a 16 year old hilltop kid to death with Lucille. It is certainly possible Jesus didn't witness the event but was told by Hilltoppers. I don't see Negan as a guy that wants to hide in the background. Regardless welcome aboard.

[Bodanki]

I think you may be incorrect Bodanki regarding Hilltop seeing Negan. Jesus said Negan beat a 16 year old hilltop kid to death with Lucille. It is certainly possible Jesus didn't witness the event but was told by Hilltoppers. I don't see Negan as a guy that wants to hide in the background. Regardless welcome aboard. Thanks. Yeah i had forgotten about Hilltop telling Rick about Negan killing the kid. That seems to be a small error then I suppose. On the other hand though, from what I can make out, as far as Hilltop are concerned that Satellite place is the Saviours HQ, so they must have just assumed Negan would be in there. Still you would have expected Jesus to look through the corpses to make sure Negan was one of them. Also in this episode that guy tells Rick HE is Negan, causing Rick to gun him down instantly. I hope they don't portray it that Rick thinks he has killed Negan, because Maggie and Carol know that is NOT Negan because Paula are her gang were referring to him by his ACTUAL name (Primo was it?) so they know that's not Negan.

[facestabber]

Thanks. Yeah i had forgotten about Hilltop telling Rick about Negan killing the kid. That seems to be a small error then I suppose. On the other hand though, from what I can make out, as far as Hilltop are concerned that Satellite place is the Saviours HQ, so they must have just assumed Negan would be in there. Still you would have expected Jesus to look through the corpses to make sure Negan was one of them. Also in this episode that guy tells Rick HE is Negan, causing Rick to gun him down instantly. I hope they don't portray it that Rick thinks he has killed Negan, because Maggie and Carol know that is NOT Negan because Paula are her gang were referring to him by his ACTUAL name (Primo was it?) so they know that's not Negan. I think Rick and go were attacking the only 'known' savior installation falsely assuming that to be its entirety. As the saying goes, assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. I'd like to believe Carol and Maggie will tell Rick that their female captives said the same thing as the guy Rick smoked.

[JDP]

Thanks. Yeah i had forgotten about Hilltop telling Rick about Negan killing the kid. That seems to be a small error then I suppose. On the other hand though, from what I can make out, as far as Hilltop are concerned that Satellite place is the Saviours HQ, so they must have just assumed Negan would be in there. Still you would have expected Jesus to look through the corpses to make sure Negan was one of them. Also in this episode that guy tells Rick HE is Negan, causing Rick to gun him down instantly. I hope they don't portray it that Rick thinks he has killed Negan, because Maggie and Carol know that is NOT Negan because Paula are her gang were referring to him by his ACTUAL name (Primo was it?) so they know that's not Negan. Such things are what prompted my question regarding this. It seems the group is unnecessarily speculating and making assumptions regarding Negan if they happen to know people who have actually seen what he looks like. Just have Jesus or whoever is it among Hilltoppers who has seen Negan to take a look at all the Savior's corpses and make an identification if he is there. If he isn't (and we, the viewers, know that he is not), then they should most certainly be on their guard and be extra careful from now on because they would know for sure that the leader of these wackos is still on the loose. They already went through a similar ordeal when the Governor escaped, had enough time to gather up a new group and come back for vengeance, which ended up costing them a lot. It is inconceivable that they would allow for something like that to happen again. It is in their best interest to make absolutely sure that the leader of this new threat is not still lurking around.

[Bodanki]

I think Rick and go were attacking the only 'known' savior installation falsely assuming that to be its entirety. As the saying goes, assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. I'd like to believe Carol and Maggie will tell Rick that their female captives said the same thing as the guy Rick smoked. Yup, I hope they do. Otherwise that will be one of those TV show things that annoy the hell out of me. Even Game Of Thrones, my favourite TV show, is guilty of it. (Jon Snow, the Crows and the Wildlings for those who watch it). Characters not passing on information they have gleaned that is hyper relevant, and then suffering for it and you are sat there saying "WTF didn't you just tell them X or Y!"

[MinionZombie]

Why wouldn't Rick or anyone in the group not think to ask Gregory or Jesus what this Negan guy looks like? Are we too assume Rick asked for a description of this man that he has just been contracted to kill. The entire plan seemed uncharacteristic from our group, but come on, if your going to go snipe hunting, you better know what a snipe is before you get in the woods. Like Bodanki, I'm of the opinion that the Hilltoppers don't know what Negan looks like - they know of him, but that's as far as they know. With all this "we're all Negan" gubbins these Saviour freaks are spouting, it's possible that some of the Hilltoppers have seen Negan, but don't know that it's him specifically. As I've said in previous threads, this is shaping up to be the pride before the fall for Team Rick. They've taken on everyone and won - they've had some loss along the way, but the team has always won - they're a little arrogant in their thinking, or they believe in themselves too much. There's not enough doubt to stop them for a moment to say "hang about, maybe let's calm this down a second and assess the situation fully..." - but yeah, they've rushed in head first. There was the hostage situation, but also getting involved with the Hilltoppers means that there's a risk of Negan's lot getting to know Team Rick before the hit comes. At this point Negan knows nothing about Team Rick, all he'll know is that he's lost a shed load of people somehow by someone's hand ... however, the longer they went without striking, the more risk they'd run of encountering the Saviours and losing all chance of a surprise attack. So there's purpose in them rushing in, but there's also so much risk and possible bugger ups attached to that same method (and likewise as many up and down sides to waiting it out). Characters not passing on information they have gleaned that is hyper relevant, and then suffering for it and you are sat there saying "WTF didn't you just tell them X or Y!" Welcome aboard, Bodanki - glad to have you - and wow, that's some dedication reading through all those episode discussion threads! Also, yes, it always irks me when vital info doens't get shared with other characters. Sometimes it's for legitimate reasons, but other times it can be for dumb reasons - or not reason at all - and that is annoying. Then again, I suppose there are times in real life when you totally forget to ask a question or make a statement in the moment which, in hindsight, would have been exactly what you should have said - but you just didn't put two and two together. Even the smartest of people can overlook something, or forget to say something vital ... ... but yeah, it can be frustrating at times whenever that happens in a TV show or movie. Generally on TWD though they're pretty smart, most of the time.

[Bodanki]

Like Bodanki, I'm of the opinion that the Hilltoppers don't know what Negan looks like - they know of him, but that's as far as they know. With all this "we're all Negan" gubbins these Saviour freaks are spouting, it's possible that some of the Hilltoppers have seen Negan, but don't know that it's him specifically. As I've said in previous threads, this is shaping up to be the pride before the fall for Team Rick. They've taken on everyone and won - they've had some loss along the way, but the team has always won - they're a little arrogant in their thinking, or they believe in themselves too much. There's not enough doubt to stop them for a moment to say "hang about, maybe let's calm this down a second and assess the situation fully..." - but yeah, they've rushed in head first. There was the hostage situation, but also getting involved with the Hilltoppers means that there's a risk of Negan's lot getting to know Team Rick before the hit comes. At this point Negan knows nothing about Team Rick, all he'll know is that he's lost a shed load of people somehow by someone's hand ... however, the longer they went without striking, the more risk they'd run of encountering the Saviours and losing all chance of a surprise attack. So there's purpose in them rushing in, but there's also so much risk and possible bugger ups attached to that same method (and likewise as many up and down sides to waiting it out). Welcome aboard, Bodanki - glad to have you - and wow, that's some dedication reading through all those episode discussion threads! Also, yes, it always irks me when vital info doens't get shared with other characters. Sometimes it's for legitimate reasons, but other times it can be for dumb reasons - or not reason at all - and that is annoying. Then again, I suppose there are times in real life when you totally forget to ask a question or make a statement in the moment which, in hindsight, would have been exactly what you should have said - but you just didn't put two and two together. Even the smartest of people can overlook something, or forget to say something vital ... ... but yeah, it can be frustrating at times whenever that happens in a TV show or movie. Generally on TWD though they're pretty smart, most of the time. Hi MZ I am jumping the gun, because Maggie and Carol may well inform Rick "Well they have been calling that guy Primo for the last couple of hours, NOT Negan" They didn't really have time to say anything before the episode ended, so am hoping they do. Yeah I found the episode reviews quite funny, just got addicted to reading them all, and it was fun reliving the episodes through the eyes of you guys and hearing your predictions for future eps that have now aired. Wyldewraiths battle with most of the folk on here regarding Rick Vs Shane was great. (I fell on Wylds side by the way )