TWD 3x04 "Killer Within" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[erisi236]

God damn, Carl is well hard.

[MoonSylver]

Certainly didn't see THAT coming! Great episode. Had me saying out loud: "*GASP*", "Lookout!", "Ahhh! They got 'im!", & "Oh No!" to my TV when certain...key events happened.

[clanglee]

Well holy shit! I almost feel bad for hating on Lori so much. Andrew Lincoln's acting in that last scene?. . . . Wow. What an amazing episode. Rick is going to be a mess after this. And I'm glad that I'm not the only one that is getting tired of Andrea. She's such a great character in the comics, but the show andrea is just kind of smarmy and slutty. Meh.

[Wyldwraith]

The Andrea thing is getting way too visibly contrived, The writers are making her the sucker that allows the camera to remain on the Governor until he's revealed in all his infamy. That's a real shame, because after she learned to shoot I valued that she wasn't shy about being the dissenting voice even if/when outnumbered. It's just hard to believe Season 2 Andrea, having depended on Michonne for daily survival for MONTHS, suddenly dismisses judgment that even the Governor knows to tread carefully about undermining when it comes to Michonne's instincts. Either this trend will continue, or Michonne is going to have to begin actually talking WITH, not TO Andrea if Andrea is to be convinced something is indeed rotten in Woodbury. The whole woman of no words thing begins to wear thin. Especially when its not a deficit of chatting one is talking about, but communicating real and critical convictions in a way other than what the Governor demands. Essentially blind faith. How they develop Michonne as she relates to others will be key in her long-term appeal, or lack thereof. Proof? Look at when everyone thought Daryl was a douchebag, and look at him now. Only difference is he talks and plays nicer with others. I don't expect the SAME transformation from Michonne, but a real survivor knows how to adapt when necessity demands it. Right now they're reading her as rigid as ice....and while FOR A LITTLE WHILE that can be used to partially help create the whole "woman warrior of mystery" vibe, it gets as old as any other too repetitive convention. Personally, I hope they salvage Andrea, and not as Merle's running buddy. Also gotta say that while I find Merle's desire/intent to find Daryl interesting, I'm not so sure the actuality would be all that great. Just a vague suspicion on that front atm however. Edit: I just put my finger on why I dislike Andrea as the complacent sucker so much. If you think about it, the story could easily remain interesting if Andrea had her suspicions but was keeping them hidden from everyone but Michonne. She could be used as the same kind of set piece, for the same reasons in Woodbury, but without losing fan respect as a witless member of Governor Headsman's flock.

[zomtom]

WOW!! What the hell was that??? I keep telling people TWD is the best show on television and tonight pretty much proved it. So much happened; I'm still trying to process it all. Poor T-Dog; he finally gets some dialogue and then they kill his ass. And as much as Lori annoyed me, I was sorry to see her get killed off. When Rick starting bawling after he found she was dead, I yelled at my tv, "now aren't you sorry you were such a prick to her the last few episodes?" I don't believe Carol is dead either. If she is, then the producers need to stop killing off all of their main characters so quickly. Maybe by killing off T-Dog, they're going to make room for this Tyrese person I keep reading about here (obviously, I've never read the comics). That little group is getting smaller and smaller and they need to add some new characters, and I don't mean creepy assed criminals.

[shootemindehead]

Holy Jaysis, what an episode that was! Goodbye Theodore...just as I was warming to you. His character was always completely superfluous anyway. I can't say that I'm not happy not to ever hear that stupid name again though. Christ, the geezer is the same age as me and was calling himself T Dog. I really hope Carol made it. I like the way Melissa McBride handles the character, as it's one of the toughest in the show IMO. There's no glory to playing Carol, she's an ordinary and fragile person and lacks the devilish delight one would get in playing a villain, or the satisfaction of a more heroic character. Feckin Andrew...I knew there was something up. Like a lot of people on here, I am really disliking Andrea...and her screwed up face. I was never that mad about her character from the off, but now she's being written as a bit of an idiot. I won't hazard a guess at where the Woodbury story is going though. It seems up in the air at the mo, but I'm getting sick of her making lovey-dovey eyes at the Gov and all of that crap with Merle? Hello! Goodbye Lori!   Anyone who has read the books knew that Lori's days were numbered anyway. I was actually surprised that the baby survived. It's a pity that the producers didn't have the guts to take her out like she went in the comics. I'm delighted with the way Mazara has handled the show so far. In fact, he's trumped Darabont by a country mile. The third series is flying down the track. The problem is, that when the inevitable slow down occurs, there could be an element of anti-climax, because it's been so breathless. I get the feeling that the producers may be trying to rush things through, so they can truly diverge from the comic book path and start making their own completely independent story lines.

[MinionZombie]

HOLY. FUCKING. SHIT. WHAT. THE. HELL?! Amazing episode and such a shocker to boot. Gutted that T-Dog bit the dust as I was, like many, quite warming to his character - he deserved more screentime, that's for sure. Good that he went out like a legend, though - good on him. Carol has to be alive, she escaped off elsewhere, and so she's gotta be alive (you'll have nobody left if you rinse through your cast like this!) Gutted that Lori went too, I knew it was coming eventually, but already?! We've still got four episodes left in this HALF of the season, nevermind the 8 more episodes beyond that! Christ on a jet-powered rocket, this shit's gone FAST! One thing that irked me - the reveal of the walkers - dolley by the actors at the fence, with no zombies behind them, and then go past Carl and all of a sudden there's a bunch of walkers. I think they need to stage these sort of moments better. Oh and another thing - they didn't leave enough time to really let some moments land. When T-Dog was holding off those two walkers while getting bit, we have swelling emotional music and then - CUT TO AN ADVERT BREAK THEN CUT BACK TO WOODBURY - which cut the moment too short too soon. This happened at a few points during the episode, so it felt a little too weird to be cutting to very calm and sedate scenes in Woodbury, when we've just seen "oh shit, Lori's going into labour!" and then cut back and she's getting sliced open - with so much going on, we needed a full episode just in the prison. Bloody hell though, the acting in this episode was phenomenal - I genuinely welled up twice - Lori's goodbye speech to Carl (and Carl's terrified face) was horrifying and extremely moving (again, Lauren Cohan brought her A-Game here, same in the final scene where she looked truly traumatised), and then Rick crumbling with the news that Lori was gone - it felt exceedingly realistic and very heart-felt and I was getting quite glassy-eyed at that moment. I was mouth agape and eyes wide and unblinking through all of that, my face practically pressed up against the screen I was so drawn in. Wow - that's all going to stay with me for a long time. I do hope we get some safety though for a while - we don't have enough cast members to be slaying them so readily, and we need time to connect to them too. Yes, it does feel too soon to kill off Lori, but on the other hand we've all had such a visceral gut reaction of real shock - and dare I say it, loss - that Mazzara's time thus far on the show has been proven to really work the audience like a puppet master. We care for these characters, and we miss them when they're gone - we feel the panic and "wait wait wait, it's too soon!" bargaining that the characters on the show also experience. WOW. That is all. WOW.

[facestabber]

As I said before best show in the history of my life. Lori annoyed me at times but man did I sympathize and feel so sad at that scene. We've lived with this great cast that is slowly dwindling down. The deaths suck but make great tv. A+ for the acting by Rick, Lori, Maggie and Carl. T-dog was quiet character but an able body asset. Daryl Dixon? What's to say other than he takes badass to a new level. Wow!!!! Again I have to give props to Rick and Maggie's acting. I think the most powerful scenes to date were nailed by those two in this episode.

[Wyldwraith]

I give the trump-card moment to Carl, That look in his eyes as he stalked past Maggie was pure "I do not give a shit if I open that door and there are ten Walkers there. I'm not afraid, THEY should be afraid!" People throw around terms like "steely eyed determination" especially in novels, but that was a PERFECT example of the term. Carl was just in 110% Do What I Must mode, and for such a young actor to convey such nuanced emotion in such a brief expression that BY DEFINITION could be easily mistaken for expressionLESS was why I give him the chief laurels. I truly felt like I was looking at a tween/young teen of the Apocalypse, whose long since come to consider the horror that surrounds and threatens to engulf them all his "normal." Much like Gen X and Y being heavily computer/technology invested, and our predecessors struggle to take in things we consider as elementary as breathing. Like Email and Web Searches, not to mention torrent sites, bandwidth/performance/connectivity-related knowledge. Only in Carl's case it's making sure to put a bullet in the head of any suspicious seemingly-dead corpse, popping off headshots with all the aplomb and skill of a 12yr old with a hand-held gaming system...and soldiering on through losses that have been known to drive seasoned military men to the brink of if not over the brink into madness. Don't get me wrong, Andrew Lincoln's grief and regret intermingled came off as real and believable, and generated genuine empathy for his situation in me, such was my suspension of disbelief. It's just not as much a reach for him after other key emotionally-charged moments...like outside the CDC begging to be let in. I was really, REALLY glad that they wrote in a demonstration of Oscar's unquestionable loyalty based on his putting Andrew down and then handing Rick's gun back to him. (And no, I don't believe it was because he was aware Daryl was sneaking into position to knife him if necessary. Daryl was too far behind Oscar to have been caught in his peripheral vision, at least IMHO.) While, as I said T-Dog had grown on me a bit this season, Oscar fills the same "niche" so smoothly that it's as if T-Dog had been reincarnated. (As for the ridiculousness of the character's name...IronE is much, MUCH worse!) I do agree that an already incredible episode could have been nudged even higher had they not split time between Woodbury and the prison, especially since 90% of the Woodbury content was pure fluff. Sorry, the little flirty scenes between the Governor and Andrea are NOT generating their intended effect on me. All I felt watching Andrea tip the bottle of whiskey to fill her glass fuller, after her comment about her tolerance being close to nil was "Wow, I've hooked up with slutty coeds who used the EXACT SAME pattern of behavior as preamble to ditching their inhibitions. Didn't make me respect them, and Andrea's nearly giggled "Wow, this is good" after taking a long swig of booze triggered the same eye-rolling nausea. I liked that Michonne was investigating hands-on, but found it frustrating to the point of wanting to pull out my hair she couldn't even convey the most concise synopsis of what she saw with the military convoy vehicles and her little back and forth with the Governor to Andrea. I'm sorry, but saving someone's ass...even a ton of times does NOT elevate one to a position where the "savior" can say to the "saved" "Believe this, because I tell you it is so." Other than some really hardcore Subs/bottoms, the vast majority of people will push back against such peremptory ordering about. It's a believable, and more importantly, intuitively ANTICIPATED reaction by most viewers. One that deserves a more believable dealing with than what Michonne has so far offered. Merle....I genuinely don't know what to make of his intentions, and that intrigues me more as time passes. He obviously feels a deep sense of obligation/indebtedness to the Governor for rescuing him, but now the Governor is essentially cockblocking Merle's desire to go search for the brother he's sure he can find. Given the hyper-fast pace they've been maintaining this season, I wouldn't be at ALL surprised if that acceleration towards initial resolutions of some Woodbury plot elements struck Woodbury next. After all, there's really not enough fat left on the edge of the meat of Rick's group to trim anymore atm. Also, whoever pointed out that the actress who plays Carol deserves major props for giving her all in portraying such an everywoman character in the midst of all these roles where other actors/actresses get to be the hero..or at least the action hero. That takes a certain sort of humility I don't think is all that common in Hollywood these days. Just my continued musings. As always, your mileage may vary.

[MinionZombie]

TWD 3x04 "Killer Within" Memes: Enjoy. ... And now for the weekly MinionZombie Walking Dead debrief. IN SUMMARY: * In a welcome moment of levity, the show makers injected a little sauciness into proceedings. In the comics there was a running joke about Glenn and Maggie shacking up like a pair of rabbits, and here their guard-tower tryst brings a sense of fun to an otherwise harrowing episode. * Axel fans got their wish - "You follow me?" * Michonne got a little more to do than scowl in this episode, surveying evidence from The Governor's encounter with the military guys from the last episode. * Andrea seems awfully taken-in by The Governor - but just because we the viewer know he's no good, doesn't mean Andrea does. The big guy has taken-in an entire town of dozens of people, who are distracted by safety and a sense of normalcy, so it isn't a big push to suggest that Andrea would fall victim to the same temptations. That said, Michonne could be a little more open in her arguments against staying. * Teleporting zombies - now and then there are moments of staging that fall below par, and the reveal of a group of walkers inside the main gates was a bit too much of a cheat. Moving across the likes of Lori, Beth, Hershel, and Carl, one moment they're there, the next they're not. It's a reveal that's a bit too clunky and goes too far down the cheat path. Sure, if your attention is drawn elsewhere, you could suddenly find yourself in trouble, but the translation-to-screen of that point-of-view moment just felt a little too cheeky here. * Pacing issues - there's so much chaos at the prison, with so much drama, that to cut away after a shocking moment (such as T-Dog getting bit, or Lori going into labour) to an advert break or a rather calm scene in Woodbury makes for a jolting gear change. Furthermore, T-Dog's heroic end is cut short - as emotional music swells, we suddenly cut to an advert. We didn't get enough time for the moment to fully land, so the hurried pace was at times frustrating. Yes, the characters wouldn't have enough time for to let it sink in, but the viewer must be allowed a little more time to comprehend the horror. * As I'd theorised, because we didn't see Andrew killed by walkers when he was locked out by Rick, it was he who become the titular antagonist. It was a costly mistake of Rick's, and one that will surely eat away at his insides, but on the other hand it provided the impetus for Axel and Oscar to prove themselves to their new leader. * Drama - blimey, this episode had it by the truck load! BEST GORE MOMENT: T-Dog goes down swinging in order to help Carol reach safety - already bitten on the shoulder, he gets his arm and throat shredded by two more walkers. A true sacrifice where the gore doesn't distract, but simply adds to the pain of the moment. BEST TWIST ON THE COMICS: Lori lasted far longer in the comics, and being that this is only the fourth episode of the season (four more to go for this half, then eight more from February), the loss of her during childbirth comes as a massive punch in the gut. I never had a real problem with Lori (unlike many out there in Internet land), and her loss packs a considerable wallop - Callies' performance during her farewell speech to her son Carl, combined with Lauren Cohan's panic, and Chandler Riggs' hopelessness, left not a dry eye in the house. Her loss will have a huge impact upon Rick, who never got to properly patch things up with her after a rough several months on the road. THE CLIFFHANGER: With the threat contained, the disparate members of the group reconvene but with Lori and Carl still missing, Rick is desperate to continue searching. Then he hears the cries of a baby - his baby - and suddenly, with the aid of the trauma written large across Maggie's face, and the dead-eyed look to Carl, Rick's world comes crashing down. Andrew Lincoln gives a harrowing performance as he falls to the floor and crumples into the foetal position - a shock-filled episode comes to its horrific conclusion. Just the moment where he realises that Carl had to make sure his own mother stayed dead was enough to bring a tear to the eye. Wow. Enough said. Wow.

[bassman]

[MoonSylver]

I thought that Walker reveal was GREAT personally. Even though I KNEW they were coiming it still elicited a gasp from me. :ekk:

[facestabber]

Just thought of something regarding Tdog. Really would have liked the face off between Tdog and Merle. Since Tdog was in fact the last person to see Merle and lost the key. The writers may have missed out on that one. Because I believe Daryl would completely back Rick, Tdog and co. Regardless this episode has me thinking all day. My girlfriend and I can't stop discussing it.

[babomb]

The Walker reveal served a purpose. They were getting kinda complacent in there already.

[shootemindehead]

Just thought of something regarding Tdog. Really would have liked the face off between Tdog and Merle. Since Tdog was in fact the last person to see Merle and lost the key. The writers may have missed out on that one. Because I believe Daryl would completely back Rick, Tdog and co. Regardless this episode has me thinking all day. My girlfriend and I can't stop discussing it. I think that Merle is more concerned with finding the "...prick that cuffed me to the rooftop". I reckon the mid season finale nonsense will end with Merle showing up at the prison.