TWD 6x05 "Now" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[Moon Knight]

So no obvious set of double guards on the gates at night? Even if they were pulled off the wall to not stir up the walkers? Maybe they were there and not featured in the shots and not questioning someone who was acting oddly, but it seems poorly thought out considering this is a world where people are sometimes apt to go 'round the bend. - - - Updated - - - That may have been me. A couple weeks ago? Sometimes I forget what has been referenced from the comics already, what hasn't and what hasn't actually even happened in the monthlies. I must be getting old. Lol it's alright it happens. I will never post anything from the comics or confirmed spoilers without spoiler tags but I get some people don't want to even hear certain theories haha. No worries.

[Neil]

1) How did those two zombies get in the sewer? 2) Why aren't they simply standing at the close gates spearing zombies through the head to reduce their numbers?

[DayoftheZ]

1) How did those two zombies get in the sewer? 2) Why aren't they simply standing at the close gates spearing zombies through the head to reduce their numbers? 1) How did those two zombies get in the sewer? 2) Why aren't they simply standing at the close gates spearing zombies through the head to reduce their numbers? On The Talking Dead they said that the original idea was to have four “Sludge Walkers” and they were intended to be the four people that Deana had exiled attempting to get back into Alexandria. I suppose the explanation is the ladder fell and killed them as they were trying to return. Ricks hope is that Daryl, Sasha and Abe will return and lure away the walkers. If the walkers are as Rick said twenty deep you would have a serious barrier to getting out if needs be. I would assume there are some cars left in the safe zone that could potentially be used to escape if the time comes and running through walkers would be easier than running over them.

[MinionZombie]

1) How did those two zombies get in the sewer? 2) Why aren't they simply standing at the close gates spearing zombies through the head to reduce their numbers? 1) Yeah, people in the sewer got killed by the falling ladder - and then the bodies got caught up in a load of sewer sludge (there must be so many turds floating about down there - turd walkers!!!) 2) I know, right?! I would have been doing that from the get go - at the fence/entrance - but also from above with some kind of fashioned spears. You'd have to make sure you were anchored to your own side (so the walkers couldn't pull on the pole and drag you down into the herd), but I'd have people up there popping as many skulls as possible. They're lucky that they don't have every walker there, but you could also thin them out some more ... on the downside though, it does provide a lot of activity which could rile them up (more so than just Rick standing quietly and quite still on his tod, looking for signs from the others). As for next week's episode / the 'one day' thing, it reads to me as if they've been going all-night, so Daryl is exhausted, and it could very well take place during the 2nd day. That's what I presume, anyway. Also - in case anyone's interesting - Greg Nicotero's got an Instagram feed with a bunch of cool stuff on it: https://instagram.com/gnicotero/

[shootemindehead]

I had that theory too MK although I feel it could also be......... beware comic book spoiler only read if you have read the comics or dont mide spoilers   Jesus That would be some entrance and make him an instant fans favourite Now that would make me forgive any Glenn is still alive crap. That would be a cool entrance.

[Trin]

I liked this episode. I LOVED seeing the walls surrounded by walkers. And Rick running that final distance being chased by a horde of zombies was classic zombie goodness. So why the heck are the residents raiding the food pantry because "they might all be dead tomorrow" while the room full of guns goes untouched? Is there a lack of bullets I'm not aware of? I'm not eating my last meal until the last bullet is spent. And, yes, I'd be at the walls thinning the herd in any way possible. That means poles with spikes on the end, nooses to drag them up and knife them. Drill some 2" holes in the wall at head height and spear them. Kite them a few at a time to the sewer grate. I don't care if the numbers end up being overwhelming, or they pull a Dawn 2004 ("for every one we shoot two more appear"). At least show them doing something! Okay, so did it bug the crap out of anyone else that Aaron decides to go on a big trip outside with no guns or supplies? I know he's an expert at surviving outside, but that was with relatively few walkers, and with the support of the car/RV/partner and such. If anything, they should be taking EXTRA supplies, since they might be out there a LONG time and they might end up having several mouths to feed (Glenn, Nicholas, Sasha, Abe, etc.). I've come to terms with Glenn living. I just hope he lives and we don't have a big jerk-around where they make it seem like he'll live and then don't. Or that we lose someone else equally important in the exchange, like either of the two girls who kissed. The only real problem I have with this episode is that they foreshadowed lots of internal treachery/mishaps, and I'm pretty sick of the human vs. human (or human vs. idiocy) conflict when we're just getting to some good human vs. zombie.

[facestabber]

I liked this episode. I LOVED seeing the walls surrounded by walkers. And Rick running that final distance being chased by a horde of zombies was classic zombie goodness. So why the heck are the residents raiding the food pantry because "they might all be dead tomorrow" while the room full of guns goes untouched? Is there a lack of bullets I'm not aware of? I'm not eating my last meal until the last bullet is spent. And, yes, I'd be at the walls thinning the herd in any way possible. That means poles with spikes on the end, nooses to drag them up and knife them. Drill some 2" holes in the wall at head height and spear them. Kite them a few at a time to the sewer grate. I don't care if the numbers end up being overwhelming, or they pull a Dawn 2004 ("for every one we shoot two more appear"). At least show them doing something! Okay, so did it bug the crap out of anyone else that Aaron decides to go on a big trip outside with no guns or supplies? I know he's an expert at surviving outside, but that was with relatively few walkers, and with the support of the car/RV/partner and such. If anything, they should be taking EXTRA supplies, since they might be out there a LONG time and they might end up having several mouths to feed (Glenn, Nicholas, Sasha, Abe, etc.). I've come to terms with Glenn living. I just hope he lives and we don't have a big jerk-around where they make it seem like he'll live and then don't. Or that we lose someone else equally important in the exchange, like either of the two girls who kissed. The only real problem I have with this episode is that they foreshadowed lots of internal treachery/mishaps, and I'm pretty sick of the human vs. human (or human vs. idiocy) conflict when we're just getting to some good human vs. zombie. Yes Trin I'm on board with you regarding Aaron and Maggies trip. Obviously she has some smarts by loading up some mags and taking a handgun. That armory is well stocked with some very nice guns. Kid in a candy store for me. Maybe ammo is limited but it can't be down to zero as we saw Maggie loading. These two also just witnessed an attack by Wolves who may very well be on the outside in great numbers. How any of these characters go without a long gun as a primary and a mandatory handgun on their respective hips is beyond my understanding. I think I was so excited that Maggie was doing something that I didnt pay attention to Aarons lack of arming. I like Maggie in case ya'll wonderin.

[MinionZombie]

So why the heck are the residents raiding the food pantry because "they might all be dead tomorrow" while the room full of guns goes untouched? Is there a lack of bullets I'm not aware of? I'm not eating my last meal until the last bullet is spent. Okay, so did it bug the crap out of anyone else that Aaron decides to go on a big trip outside with no guns or supplies? I know he's an expert at surviving outside, but that was with relatively few walkers, and with the support of the car/RV/partner and such. If anything, they should be taking EXTRA supplies, since they might be out there a LONG time and they might end up having several mouths to feed (Glenn, Nicholas, Sasha, Abe, etc.). 1) To be fair those people in the pantry have no idea what the world is like out there. They have no real survival instincts. They're delusional, having been protected by other people in their quaint little walled-off bubble. It's only in the last couple of weeks that they've had everything get a bit crazy - and even then they're just hiding away inside their homes. They've not had to defend themselves, or endure near-starvation (just think of Season 3's opener where Carl was ready to chow down on dog food only for the group to dig into a few scraps of owl meat) ... so those chumps just have their bellies in mind. They've already given up, they believe they're dead and that's that. Rick & Co are problem solvers ... the pantry raiders are mewling babies living on borrowed time. 2) Maggie was tooled up - they conversed in the armory - and Aaron had a pack with him, right? I'd imagine he'd be tooled up in there - and he might have been carrying a gun on a hip holster we didn't happen to see ... but we also know that Aaron's M.O. is much like Glenn's was/is - sneaking around on the sly. Maggie was gearing up to go head-on through the walkers, but he had his own little route. Also, even if you have a load of guns, facing that many walkers you might as well have a pea shooter. You'd not be able to carry enough ammo to deal with them all, and you'd ideally not want to fire a single damn shot as it'd bring a lot of attention down on you - move quick and quiet. They're going after Glenn specifically - yeah, they might encounter Nicholas (as they don't know he's dead) - but that's it. Abraham, Sasha, and Daryl are all off elsewhere dealing with the other half of the herd and are skilled survivors. Glenn is skilled but he's not given a signal or returned - so something is afoot. They'd probably have a few protein bars and a canteen in their pack, but the mission is very specific and takes them not too far from Alexandria - so it's all about speed and stealth.

[Neil]

So why the heck are the residents raiding the food pantry because "they might all be dead tomorrow" while the room full of guns goes untouched? Is there a lack of bullets I'm not aware of? I'm not eating my last meal until the last bullet is spent. Guns don't taste so good? ps: Yes, I'd be thinning the herd with spears too!

[Trin]

Guns don't taste so good? ps: Yes, I'd be thinning the herd with spears too! They taste like freedom with a side of peace of mind.

[Moon Knight]

I'm glad Rick made it back this episode. I'm also ok with them not showing us Rick escaping the RV as it was quite obvious he could just run past the herd before he got totally swarmed. Just the simple image of Rick running with his last breath as he's pushing nearby Walkers away was good enough of me. Was disappointed we really didn't get much screen time with Carol, Michonne, or Morgan; who just had a 90 min episode just so he can be a mere background character this episode. I also wanted to know what was going on with Carol after "JSS". With Scott pretty much in bad shape, where the hell was Heath? I guess we can blame the Denise switch for that but damn lol. Father Gabriel was also missing. Disappointing. That fight between Carl and Ron was embarrassing. Even The Talking Dead poked fun at it. I don't trust Ron and I don't trust Spencer. F*ck those guys. I'm glad we got to see more of Maggie this episode and I'm also happy she didn't leave Alexandria. I really didn't want her to go off on yet another search mission. Was it a coincidence that the writers had Maggie talking to Aaron about Not knowing if Glenn is alive or dead; almost as if she was speaking on the viewers behalf. A meta comment if you will. I'm pretty sure it was. This show just doesn't say or show anything if it didn't have some kind of meaning behind it. Great make up work on the two sludge walkers. The original plan was for it to be the exiled Alexandrians who had died trying to get back into the community. I still want to know what happened to Davidson dammit! Man, is Rosita the new T-Dogg or what. It's frustrating seeing characters like Tara and Sasha get way more screen time than my fellow Latina. Even Denise already feels more important. And please don't hook her up with that douche Spencer. No. Deanna is in an interesting place right about now. I believe she's trying to fight back but I'm not too sure she's all there mentally. She just lost her son and husband, her community isn't the safe haven she once thought, most of her people were just murdered, walkers surround Alexandria, and her remaining family just blamed her for everything after being a hypocrite and raiding the pantry of booze and crackers. Hmmmm. Overall not a great episode but a needed one. I usually defend the show on it's writing but not this one. Too many forced speeches and that laughable shoving match was awful. I also wanted to see Rick's reaction to the Wolves attack. Oh well. Btw, how was it established that the woman who opted out and became a walker was Betsy? They say her name? Let's hope this is the season's weakest episode.

[MinionZombie]

Was disappointed we really didn't get much screen time with Carol, Michonne, or Morgan; who just had a 90 min episode just so he can be a mere background character this episode. I also wanted to know what was going on with Carol after "JSS". That fight between Carl and Ron was embarrassing. Even The Talking Dead poked fun at it. This show just doesn't say or show anything if it didn't have some kind of meaning behind it. Man, is Rosita the new T-Dogg or what. It's frustrating seeing characters like Tara and Sasha get way more screen time than my fellow Latina. Even Denise already feels more important. And please don't hook her up with that douche Spencer. No. I also wanted to see Rick's reaction to the Wolves attack. Oh well. 1) If you had to have every single character in every single episode your storytelling options would be severely limited and constrained, and frankly it would make for an incredibly disjointed episode with not enough time for anyone to do, let alone say, anything fully. There is the 'week to week' issue of viewing it, but these events are taking place over a very condensed timeframe (four episodes for a single day in this case). 2) Yeah, the brief shove fight was a bit crappy ... but then again they're both teenage boys ... when do you ever remember two teenage boys fighting like they were in a Rocky movie?! 3) Indeed - there's always a reason for something. We get a lot of foreshadowing, call backs, and dropped hints these days with Gimple as showrunner, which is a lot of fun. Remember the painting Michonne found in Season 4 which prefigured Mary at Terminus? The dropping of the chocolate bar wrapper - which was later found by The Wolves? All these small things link up - there is always a larger plan and story afoot - we've just not seen all of it yet. And I've gotta say, sometimes it might not be an issue of what's written - it might be an issue of how something is staged on the day (e.g. the gripes about the position of the dumpster and the walkers surrounding it) ... plus, it ain't easy to write a show like The Walking Dead, or most shows for that fact. There's a hell of a lot to think about, especially when you're mapping out an entire season and seeking to make things link up. This isn't me excusing everything - Spencer's speech was a bit of a cringer, and felt far too 'designed' and 'written' rather than somebody in the heat of the moment - and generally the episode was speech-heavy (four bloody speeches!) ... but as I've figured out over the years, everything is harder than you think it is, screenwriting very much included. There's a hell of a lot of work that goes into these scripts, like any good script, and even if there's some faults here and there, frankly TWD shits all over a great swathe of TV and movie writing out there (particularly network stuff, which always feels so constrained by censorship and writing-by-committee). End of rant. 4) Yes. More Rosita, please! 5) Rick's reaction? We kind of get the aftershocks, and even if we did see what else would it be but sheer horror? Much like Rick escaping from the RV, we know what would happen/how it would go down ... sure I'd like to have seen it, but some things have got to be jettisoned to make room for other stuff (which further illustrates my point in #1 above).

[Moon Knight]

1) If you had to have every single character in every single episode your storytelling options would be severely limited and constrained, and frankly it would make for an incredibly disjointed episode with not enough time for anyone to do, let alone say, anything fully. There is the 'week to week' issue of viewing it, but these events are taking place over a very condensed timeframe (four episodes for a single day in this case). 2) Yeah, the brief shove fight was a bit crappy ... but then again they're both teenage boys ... when do you ever remember two teenage boys fighting like they were in a Rocky movie?! 3) Indeed - there's always a reason for something. We get a lot of foreshadowing, call backs, and dropped hints these days with Gimple as showrunner, which is a lot of fun. Remember the painting Michonne found in Season 4 which prefigured Mary at Terminus? The dropping of the chocolate bar wrapper - which was later found by The Wolves? All these small things link up - there is always a larger plan and story afoot - we've just not seen all of it yet. And I've gotta say, sometimes it might not be an issue of what's written - it might be an issue of how something is staged on the day (e.g. the gripes about the position of the dumpster and the walkers surrounding it) ... plus, it ain't easy to write a show like The Walking Dead, or most shows for that fact. There's a hell of a lot to think about, especially when you're mapping out an entire season and seeking to make things link up. This isn't me excusing everything - Spencer's speech was a bit of a cringer, and felt far too 'designed' and 'written' rather than somebody in the heat of the moment - and generally the episode was speech-heavy (four bloody speeches!) ... but as I've figured out over the years, everything is harder than you think it is, screenwriting very much included. There's a hell of a lot of work that goes into these scripts, like any good script, and even if there's some faults here and there, frankly TWD shits all over a great swathe of TV and movie writing out there (particularly network stuff, which always feels so constrained by censorship and writing-by-committee). End of rant. 4) Yes. More Rosita, please! 5) Rick's reaction? We kind of get the aftershocks, and even if we did see what else would it be but sheer horror? Much like Rick escaping from the RV, we know what would happen/how it would go down ... sure I'd like to have seen it, but some things have got to be jettisoned to make room for other stuff (which further illustrates my point in #1 above). I agree with you about the writing. I guess that's the point I tried making earlier. Sure the Spencer speech was cringeworthy but for the most part the writing is already great in my opinion. My biggest gripe is the weak handling of background characters whether they are red shirts or the people of Woodbury. Sometimes it feels like they just throw anyone out there without the care and special handling like someone like Carol or Gabriel would get. See a show like GoT and how it feels like every character is well written and acted regardless of screen importance. Anyway, minor gripe aside, episodes like "The Grove" and "Clear" and even "Too Far Gone", are great examples on this show's great writing. I didn't expect a good fist fight between the teens but c'mon, man lol that was bad. Also, concerning Rick's reaction, I personally thought the events from "JSS" would have had a bigger emotional impact back home but I'm not mad about it. Sometimes expectations going in can let you down at times but I completey understand what you're saying.

[facestabber]

Im with you Moon regarding Rosita. Her character is underdeveloped. I'd trade her for Sasha right away. I too want to see Ricks reaction to the Wolf attack. I have a feeling its coming soon and its gonna get bad between Rick and Morgan. Rick saw the W's on his attackers at the RV and he will find out about Morgan. The captured Wolf is likely gonna do harm to someone. I have s scary thought as to who but wont risk spoiler. Minion, you can find teenage GIRLS brutally fighting on youtube...LOL I don't expect Rocky but that was embarrassing.

[MinionZombie]

My biggest gripe is the weak handling of background characters whether they are red shirts or the people of Woodbury. Sometimes it feels like they just throw anyone out there without the care and special handling like someone like Carol or Gabriel would get. See a show like GoT and how it feels like every character is well written and acted regardless of screen importance. Anyway, minor gripe aside, episodes like "The Grove" and "Clear" and even "Too Far Gone", are great examples on this show's great writing. Well, if the red shirts were handled like Carol or whoever else, then they wouldn't be red shirts - they'd be main characters. Seriously though, the fact we're calling them "red shirts" goes to show that such a treatment of background/one episode only characters isn't anything new. Any time you give them is all time taken away from the people you've been following for far longer. I think the handling of the red shirts in 6x03 was some of the best in the show - David in particular. He had a backstory, he interacted directly with a main cast member in a way that also related to their story, they ran a gamut of emotions, and their death had an impact a couple of episodes later with Betsy (his wife) slitting her wrists. I'd imagine there's also a production/financial element involved too, e.g. background extras vs a bit player ... then you've got someone who does a single episode, but if you're in more than two then you're a "recurring character", so there's probably some extra cash and such for that. Ultimately, if you're going to kill them off - someone of little real story or character importance to your main cast (which, in TWD, is very large) - then do you really want to splash that extra cash (that could pay for a more awesome walker kill, or additional zombie extras, etc)? Game of Thrones ... hmmm ... there's plenty of nameless characters getting their throats slit or flashing their bits n pieces dotted around, sometimes saying a line or two ... all shows have bit players, background characters, red shirts etc. I do agree that there are ways to work in a little bit more stuff to flesh them out a bit - I refer back to David in 6x03 - which, like in David's case, gives more of an illusion that they are the lead character in their own story. However, the real 'support work' has to be focused on the supporting characters rather than those who are just there for an episode, or even a scene. On the other hand we get some amazingly detailed walkers that are only glimpsed. Minion, you can find teenage GIRLS brutally fighting on youtube...LOL I don't expect Rocky but that was embarrassing. True, but not all people fight like wild cats ... you rarely/never see on YouTube all the countless 'fights' that are embarrassingly brief/inept etc. I agree that in this show it should have been a bit beefier (but only just a bit), but at the same time neither of them are Van Damme or whoever you like. Remember all those duff fights you saw when you were at school - there'd be a load of build up, a bunch of circling about, then a few piss-poor punches with bugger all aim or skill, and then a teacher would come along and break things up and everyone's all "we stayed after school for this shit?" ... Just having a skim through Nicotero's Instagram and this is a nifty look at the sludge walker that Maggie gets her arms stuck inside: https://instagram.com/p/92SFSSoNFW/?taken-by=gnicotero