TWD 2x03 "Save The Last One" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Thorn]

Loved the show, found the stuff around the school amazing and exactly what I want in a zombie movie. A wave of dead that does not sprint after you using weapons or special super powers, but just lurch forward never tiring and not stopping unless food is made available or an appealing enough distraction presents itself. Just brilliant, and the human side of the story was really well done with the conflict within Lori, and her exchanges with Rick.. also the twist... might give some around here pause on opinions of certain characters... Just brilliant, and one of my favorite episodes to date if not my favorite.

[AcesandEights]

Now that's more like it! I had a lot of negative things to say about the season premiere. I didn't even bother to comment on last week's episode, because, once again, I wasn't happy. However, this week's episode turned things around for me. I can honestly say that it was a good episode. I enjoyed the somewhat lighthearted conversation between Daryl and Andrea (and that hanging zombie was badass!). I liked the scenes between Glenn and Maggie. Most significantly, the development with Shane was extremely well done. I loved how the end of the episode blended into the beginning of the episode. I agree, a few little nitpicks, but a great overall episode. I felt it had a fantastic mix of dialogue, action, suspense and even a full-on feeding with a bit of gore. This episode is classic Walking Dead. It had it all. Exactly! However, the real question is, did Shane make his ultimate decision with Carl's best interest in mind? Or did he just do it to get good with Lori? After all, she did ask him to stay, right? Regardless of how much Carl’s welfare weighed in Shane’s decision is debatable, and Shane may not even be able to say for certain, but I think it’s safe to say it was ultimately a selfish and scumbag move (though arguably an understandable act, for some). His downspiral and psychological unraveling has well and truly begun, I'm hoping it's a fun, but not overly rushed ride. i am getting a bit irritated by this finding sophia shit. she surely must've been picked up by someone by now, i'm guessing perhaps some certain characters from the comics who've not shown up yet may be introduced and worked into the series as sophia's saviors.... Yeah, I was wondering if they’d do a big reveal when they found her, but I think you’re more likely correct that she will be tagged alongside one or more new characters and built into a situation from the comics. The big reveal I thought the group finding her might be linked to seems a bit too far away in the storyline. Rick tells Lori the story of how the deer stood there and allowed Carl to get so close. He then tells her that this is the reason they shouldn't give up on Carl and why it's important that he stays alive in this world. Carl woke up for a few seconds in the bed, but rather than talk about being shot or any of the nasty things they've been going through, the first thing he mentions is how beautiful the deer was. For seeing the beauty in such a horrible world, this is why Rick believes Carl would be better alive than dead. It came across a little cheesy, I thought, but I can identify that this is a Father desperately looking for any hope to hold onto for himself and, more importantly, his family. Actually, it was really nice to see things weighing heavily on everyone this episode (something I've been looking for) and I was very pleased with the way they mixed everything together. Very enjoyable. Also, think Herschel's power runs off a generator? Was it mentioned and I missed it? Would be interesting if Sofia was hiding nearby and saw what Shane did... Ha! Yeah, it would, but I'm not betting on it. It'd also be too neat and convenient for the story/drama angle if that happened.

[Thorn]

You make a good point... but I'm willing to overlook it, simply because I liked the development so much. Lori is a little much at times. I've also started to notice that Andrew Lincoln's performance as Rick is on the mannered side. He has these certain head moves, and a twitchy way about him. I disagree, the living get tired, you can keep going but eventually you pass out, cramp up, and stop moving. The dead just keep coming. Shane didn't wait to the last minute to make his move, when it might have been too late. He made a cold and calculated decision. Walking wounded a few paces in front of the walking dead is just meals on wheels waiting to be served.

[mpokera]

Really enjoyed the episode, lots of zed action and tense moments. Still really hate the way Shane and Otis didnt have a plan for exiting the trailer but obv the writers wanted them to get trapped in the school for some really excellent scenes there. Agree with the poster earlier who mentioned you could see Shane was really losing it even just after he got out of the gym before Otis saved his ass. I really loved the scene of the two trying to run slowly away from the implacable wave of zombies. I have a scene very like that in a book I am writing, the hero with an injured leg reduced to shambling away from zombies, his once large speed advantage gone. As for crippling Otis, it def would have crossed my mind but I dont think I could have done it, have too much hero complex in me, certainly not at the point they were at with still a decent lead. But I really love the way the writers have treated Shane since they rescued him from his early exit as in the comics. I think he is really trying to do the right thing but he keeps being put in no win situations and it just spirals worse and worse. We saw in the first season that he didnt want to abandon Rick in the Hospital but he finally did, surely convincing himself that he was dead already even if he didnt totally believe it. Afterwards he surely thought that he had to have died shortly after even if he wasnt totally dead yet. Telling himself he was making it up to his friend by taking care of Lori and Carl. Then Rick miracuously shows up and he is cast into limbo. The swirl of conflicted feelings from that would be likely to drive him insane even without the present circumstances. I can see him really beginning to convince himself that he would be a better protector/provider for Lori and Carl, especially after this episode. He will feel that not only did he nearly die for them but that he was "forced" to do what he did to Otis for them, see how that makes it their fault? Something he didnt want to do but had to for Carl's sake? I can imagine him telling himself that. And when you get right down to it, he will say to himself what has Rick really done for them? He slept through most of it, through the horrible ordeal Shane carried them through, and then he shows up and almost gets Carl killed? Cleverly forgetting that he himself was right there when Carl got shot too, of course he can tell himself if Rick didnt lose Sofia none of that happens..... Anyway, I just love how they are developing the character and letting us see the cracks in his psyche appear, the center failing to hold. I think it could make his eventual snapping and actually trying to kill Rick more believable than in the comic if they still choose to go that route.

[Legion2213]

Wow. What an episode. I enjoyed the first season, but I am finding this more betterer! (all shows have flaws, and seeing as this is the only zombie series in existance I'm prepared to cut it some slack). As for our heroes, it seems to me that everybody is broken and damaged. Shane is just so messed up it's unbelievable. I liked Daryls tale of getting lost as well, he really is a top character. -- -------- Post added at 04:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 PM ---------- Note to self: Don't ever be a fat guy with a leg injury being chased by the living dead next to a guy named Shane. This. -- -------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:13 PM ---------- This episode is classic Walking Dead. It had it all. However, the real question is, did Shane make his ultimate decision with Carl's best interest in mind? Or did he just do it to get good with Lori? After all, she did ask him to stay, right? Don't see why it can't both...plus self preservation (sure we've thought about it the morality of these situations being zombie fans, and wondered if we'd sacrifice another to save our own ass in similar circumstances).

[Wyldwraith]

I'm just gonna say it, I don't take the idea of this lightly, and it's not just some off-the-cuff comment on a zombie fan site. In the situation that Shane found himself in (Ie: Speed-reducing leg injury, building fatigue from being relentlessly chased while heavily burdened alongside another guy who's in even worse shape than him, and a pack of flesh-hungry beasts gaining on him) with another life depending on Shane to make it back with the supplies, I could see myself making the same decision Shane did. That doesn't make what Shane did right, but it's understandable. Shane and the others have seen what Walkers do to their victims, so the fear of being torn apart and eaten alive isn't some imagined hypothetical for them. I don't think that fear can be overstated. Everything about the situation Shane found himself in drove that fear home. Under the circumstances, and given that Otis is a stranger he had no emotional investment in, the litany of justification no doubt ran through Shane's head until he simply acted. It's the sort of moral conflict I find interesting in any case. Yes, there are people who might well choose differently, but I think most of us would surprise ourselves with just how far we'd be willing to go to avoid ending up food for beasts or monsters. Anyways, I liked the way they showed Shane back at the farm and giving his rough, trailing-off account before flashing back to the chase scene to reveal what really happened. Haven't been thrilled by some of the flashbacks they've done, but this one rocked. Incidentally, the bit from the preview of the next episode...Herschel saying "We don't take in strangers. Once you and your group have rested up you need to move on" is interesting, but has already told us they're either gonna end the season with the group at/just leaving the farm, or they'll be on the road to Who-Knows-Where just as the season ends. Put it another way: 2 episodes was just long enough to do the leaving the CDC as it exploded and back on the road thing. That was very cut and dried. Ie: Flee to your vehicles and go or get blown up and/or eaten. Herschel's farm plus the group's current situation (Carl recovering from a gunshot, T-Dog sick, Rick depleted badly enough it's gonna be upwards of a week and change before he can exert himself without risking fainting/worse medical consequences, Sophia still missing etc etc.) has a lot more reasons why their departure won't be nearly as abrupt as the end of last season. Sure, Herschel's gonna tell em next episode they gotta hit the road ASAP, but even if they left the actual farm at the end of the next episode, and even if they squeezed the plot tight enough to allow Sophia to suddenly be found by those back at the RV while the others are pulling up stakes at the farm, that would leave ONE episode where they were "free" to continue on to Fort Benning or wherever else they might end up. Personally, I don't even think they'll be physically/situationally clear of 2/3 the group being at Herschel's and 1/3 at the RV on the highway before the season ends. Even if I'm way off the mark and they bug out five minutes into the next episode, that would still leave them with a little less than 2 episodes. If they REALLY hurried things along, that just MIGHT be enough time for our intrepid survivors to travel far enough to (for example) climb up on top of the RV and use binoculars to catch sight of the major location for next season in the distance, and just as the season ends. Thoughts?

[sandrock74]

Also, think Herschel's power runs off a generator? Was it mentioned and I missed it? A lot of rural homes, like Hershel's place, tend to be run off of propane around these parts.

[AcesandEights]

A lot of rural homes, like Hershel's place, tend to be run off of propane around these parts. Ah, hadn't occurred to me! Thank you, I was sure my question would be missed amidst all the quotes I threw into my congested post.

[Legion2213]

I'm just gonna say it, I don't take the idea of this lightly, and it's not just some off-the-cuff comment on a zombie fan site. In the situation that Shane found himself in (Ie: Speed-reducing leg injury, building fatigue from being relentlessly chased while heavily burdened alongside another guy who's in even worse shape than him, and a pack of flesh-hungry beasts gaining on him) with another life depending on Shane to make it back with the supplies, I could see myself making the same decision Shane did. That doesn't make what Shane did right, but it's understandable. Shane and the others have seen what Walkers do to their victims, so the fear of being torn apart and eaten alive isn't some imagined hypothetical for them. I don't think that fear can be overstated. Everything about the situation Shane found himself in drove that fear home. Under the circumstances, and given that Otis is a stranger he had no emotional investment in, the litany of justification no doubt ran through Shane's head until he simply acted. It's the sort of moral conflict I find interesting in any case. Yes, there are people who might well choose differently, but I think most of us would surprise ourselves with just how far we'd be willing to go to avoid ending up food for beasts or monsters. Yep, I can see normally decent, honest people doing something like that, how you'd cope with any guilt after the fact is another conversation for another day I suppose. But I honestly think that once your own survival is hanging in the balance that even the most moral folks will choose to live at the cost of others. Like you, I'm not defending Shane, I am however putting myself in his shoes and asking myself if it is possible that I could do such a terrible thing...I can't put my hand on my heart and say I wouldn't. Oh, and I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but Shane took Ricks Python off Otis didn't he? Some 'splainin' is going to be needed to justify it being back at the farm if it is discovered.

[Vulture Lives]

Uh yeah I'd be a bit dazed and out to lunch too if I'd of given blood three times in one night, and my son had been shot. I'm not saying that Rick shouldn't be "dazed and confused." I'm saying that he's been a dull character since this season began. Feel free to disagree.

[kidgloves]

Im gonna have to watch that again to get my head around what i've just seen. You son of a bitch Shane. You've let me down. You could have shot Otis in the head but winging him is horrific.

[AcesandEights]

Im gonna have to watch that again to get my head around what i've just seen. You son of a bitch Shane. You've let me down. You could have shot Otis in the head but winging him is horrific. Best thing about that part was I was able to realize how innocent my wife truly is, as I had to explain Shane's intentions while the two were still wrestling on the ground. She's so sweet. The 1st rule of Call of Cthulhu is you only have to be faster than the slowest investigator. The 2nd rule of Call of Cthulhu is you only have to be faster than the new slowest investigator.

[Legion2213]

Im gonna have to watch that again to get my head around what i've just seen. You son of a bitch Shane. You've let me down. You could have shot Otis in the head but winging him is horrific. Would they pay as much attention to a dead body? Horrible as it is, once the first zack rips into him and he starts screaming, the dinner bell has just been sounded. -- -------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 PM ---------- I'm not saying that Rick shouldn't be "dazed and confused." I'm saying that he's been a dull character since this season began. Feel free to disagree. Shane and Daryl are far more interesting...I can't stand Ricks wife either, she just angers me.

[AcesandEights]

Shane and Daryl are far more interesting...I can't stand Ricks wife either, she just angers me. I thought Lori was damned annoying in the comic too, though sometimes she was right, in my opinion.

[kidgloves]

Best thing about that part was I was able to realize how innocent my wife truly is, as I had to explain Shane's intentions while the two were still wrestling on the ground. She's so sweet. The 1st rule of Call of Cthulhu is you only have to be faster than the slowest investigator. The 2nd rule of Call of Cthulhu is you only have to be faster than the new slowest investigator. This just makes it worse. Watch this preview scene from next week.