Space Post - big discovery on mars...

[krakenslayer]

I believe the only alien life found will be microscopic. They best be careful bringing samples back. Could be the end of us or other life on our planet. Hmm... maybe, although you have to consider that life on Mars evolved under such different conditions, and will probably be biochemically different to anything on Earth. While War of the Worlds showed aliens who were extremely susceptible to Earth-based microbes due to their lack of immunity, in practice it's likely to be the complete opposite: that any organisms would probably be completely "incompatible" with us biologically, so they're unlikely to be able to cause any kind of sickness or plagues or anything of that nature. I wouldn't bet the whole planet's lives on it though...

[Danny]

Martian Chronicles, it was a book and a movie that starred the late Rock Hudson. Funny music score, too. Don't eat the pudding. I believe the only alien life found will be microscopic. They best be careful bringing samples back. Could be the end of us or other life on our planet. huh. neat. -and the bacteria will be sentient and take over our brains!!!

[Yojimbo]

Martian Chronicles, it was a book and a movie that starred the late Rock Hudson. Funny music score, too. Don't eat the pudding. Awesome book, not so awesome TV movie, but not the worst I have ever seen. Book still is one of my favorites! Did anyone else hear about those photos of the wrecked, translucent transportation tubes on Mars? Sounds that the beginning of a stupid joke, to be sure, but I will have to dig up some of those very creepy photos. And how about the face on mars debate? Times like this I really miss Art Bell.

[Mike70]

Hmm... maybe, although you have to consider that life on Mars evolved under such different conditions, and will probably be biochemically different to anything on Earth. While War of the Worlds showed aliens who were extremely susceptible to Earth-based microbes due to their lack of immunity, in practice it's likely to be the complete opposite: that any organisms would probably be completely "incompatible" with us biologically, so they're unlikely to be able to cause any kind of sickness or plagues or anything of that nature. I wouldn't bet the whole planet's lives on it though... this is a good point to consider but i have a bit of a counter idea to offer. since mars and earth both formed from the same material and are similar in lots of ways (earth is much denser than mars though), i wonder how different life on mars would actually be from earth. also long ago when mars was much warmer and had large amounts of liquid water on its surface, the two weren't that different. it is a supposition but i would bet that life there would've been based on long "chains" of carbon atoms and based around the same common elements that life on earth is. i'm not meaning to suggest that i actually think that a pathogen from mars would be deadly to humans, i'm simply playing the devil's advocate.

[AcesandEights]

Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaace POOOOooooooossst! (Sorry, couldn't help it.) Very cool and quite providential find. Thanks for the share.

[strayrider]

What will be interesting to see is when they eventually do find fossills, be it intelligent life or not, the impact that it will have on our perception of our place in the grand scheme of things. What I would perceive is that, whatever it is, was carried to Mars from Earth on the solar wind. Unless they found elephant bones, or something like that. -stray-

[Neil]

What I would perceive is that, whatever it is, was carried to Mars from Earth on the solar wind. Do what? Fossils on Mars, carried from Earth? Huh? How would that work?

[Danny]

What I would perceive is that, whatever it is, was carried to Mars from Earth on the solar wind. Unless they found elephant bones, or something like that. -stray- huh. I'm not following you, isnt that the plot of invasion of the body snatchers?, or is this serious and one of those "earth must be the center of everything" moments? But then that could lead to a talk about evolution which, as most of us knows, ends badly on here 100% of the time, so im out before kaos throws down his close-hammer-of-thor on this thread.

[krakenslayer]

huh. I'm not following you, isnt that the plot of invasion of the body snatchers?, or is this serious and one of those "earth must be the center of everything" moments? But then that could lead to a talk about evolution which, as most of us knows, ends badly on here 100% of the time, so im out before kaos throws down his close-hammer-of-thor on this thread. I think what strayrider is meaning is that life on Mars might have some kind of common ancestor with life on Earth, that over billions of years some kind of cross-pollenation might have occurred. It's not a completely impossibly scenario - many scientists believe that the building blocks of life (amino acids, etc.) have been originally brought to earth (and maybe other worlds) by comets which spew out tails of material which planets then pass through. I'm not sure if "cosmic wind" is a likely carrier for such materials, but the basic idea behind it is sound. this is a good point to consider but i have a bit of a counter idea to offer. since mars and earth both formed from the same material and are similar in lots of ways (earth is much denser than mars though), i wonder how different life on mars would actually be from earth. also long ago when mars was much warmer and had large amounts of liquid water on its surface, the two weren't that different. it is a supposition but i would bet that life there would've been based on long "chains" of carbon atoms and based around the same common elements that life on earth is. i'm not meaning to suggest that i actually think that a pathogen from mars would be deadly to humans, i'm simply playing the devil's advocate. Yes, good points worth considering again, but here's my counter argument: 1) Organisms on Mars may be based on the same chemicals as us, but the internal processes, proteins, genetics and structures of such microbes would probably still be so incredibly different to our own. Bear in mind that all life on Earth probably came from one ancestor, as a result all Earth-bound organisms share a minimum of about 75% of their DNA with us, so even the tiniest bacteria is quite closely compatible with us (it's proteins are able to bind with ours, etc.). If life on Mars arose independently, its mechanics are likely to be completely different, when you consider the role of pure chance in the mutation/development of such things. 2) IF there are only microbes on Mars, then none of them will be adapted to attack multi-cellular organisms. There can be no parasites if there are no hosts. Therefore, nothing we find on Mars is going to want to jump inside us and have a party. In fact, the inside of the human body, with its high levels of oxygen and other materials uncommon to Mars, would probably be an inhospitable (and perhaps toxic) environment to a martian bug. The only way I can see a martian micro-organism giving us problems is in the unlikely scenario that they produce toxic (to us) chemicals as part of their metabolic processes, and are somehow able to multiply at sufficient rate in Earth's alien atmosphere. I doubt they'd be able to live inside us, but they might introduce toxic chemicals into the atmosphere. But then again, WE've been doing that for centuries.

[Chic Freak]

And how about the face on mars debate? Google Earth ruined that one for me. If you zoom in it really doesn't look like a face at all Anyway, didn't they already find bacteria fossils on Mars aaaaages ago?

[Mike70]

Yes, good points worth considering again, but here's my counter argument: 1) Organisms on Mars may be based on the same chemicals as us, but the internal processes, proteins, genetics and structures of such microbes would probably still be so incredibly different to our own. Bear in mind that all life on Earth probably came from one ancestor, as a result all Earth-bound organisms share a minimum of about 75% of their DNA with us, so even the tiniest bacteria is quite closely compatible with us (it's proteins are able to bind with ours, etc.). If life on Mars arose independently, its mechanics are likely to be completely different, when you consider the role of pure chance in the mutation/development of such things. 2) IF there are only microbes on Mars, then none of them will be adapted to attack multi-cellular organisms. There can be no parasites if there are no hosts. Therefore, nothing we find on Mars is going to want to jump inside us and have a party. In fact, the inside of the human body, with its high levels of oxygen and other materials uncommon to Mars, would probably be an inhospitable (and perhaps toxic) environment to a martian bug. The only way I can see a martian micro-organism giving us problems is in the unlikely scenario that they produce toxic (to us) chemicals as part of their metabolic processes, and are somehow able to multiply at sufficient rate in Earth's alien atmosphere. I doubt they'd be able to live inside us, but they might introduce toxic chemicals into the atmosphere. But then again, WE've been doing that for centuries. great answer. again, i wasn't suggesting that martian microbes would be harmful but was simply playing the devil's advocate. the point about oxygen you brought up is an excellent one. if i could know one thing about life on other worlds it would be how many of them use oxygen to "breathe." when you think about it oxygen is a psychotic, violent element. it is corrosive (look at what it does to iron- that's just one example). it is highly reactive with just about everything, if plants weren't constantly putting it back into the atmosphere it would all be scrubbed out eventually. oh, yeah and things have a tendency to explode in the presence of oxygen if an energy source is added.

[Yojimbo]

Google Earth ruined that one for me. If you zoom in it really doesn't look like a face at all Anyway, didn't they already find bacteria fossils on Mars aaaaages ago? Yeah, I noticed that too. But there are still those that insist it is a face! BTW: Here is a site with renderings of the glass tubes http://www.ancientmoons.net/marstubes.htm

[Neil]

great answer. again, i wasn't suggesting that martian microbes would be harmful but was simply playing the devil's advocate. the point about oxygen you brought up is an excellent one. if i could know one thing about life on other worlds it would be how many of them use oxygen to "breathe." when you think about it oxygen is a psychotic, violent element. it is corrosive (look at what it does to iron- that's just one example). it is highly reactive with just about everything, if plants weren't constantly putting it back into the atmosphere it would all be scrubbed out eventually. oh, yeah and things have a tendency to explode in the presence of oxygen if an energy source is added. Billions of years ago, when oxygen was far rarer, and I believe it was actually poisenous to living creatures on earth...

[Danny]

I think what strayrider is meaning is that life on Mars might have some kind of common ancestor with life on Earth, that over billions of years some kind of cross-pollenation might have occurred. It's not a completely impossibly scenario - many scientists believe that the building blocks of life (amino acids, etc.) have been originally brought to earth (and maybe other worlds) by comets which spew out tails of material which planets then pass through. I'm not sure if "cosmic wind" is a likely carrier for such materials, but the basic idea behind it is sound. Yes, good points worth considering again, but here's my counter argument: 1) Organisms on Mars may be based on the same chemicals as us, but the internal processes, proteins, genetics and structures of such microbes would probably still be so incredibly different to our own. Bear in mind that all life on Earth probably came from one ancestor, as a result all Earth-bound organisms share a minimum of about 75% of their DNA with us, so even the tiniest bacteria is quite closely compatible with us (it's proteins are able to bind with ours, etc.). If life on Mars arose independently, its mechanics are likely to be completely different, when you consider the role of pure chance in the mutation/development of such things. 2) IF there are only microbes on Mars, then none of them will be adapted to attack multi-cellular organisms. There can be no parasites if there are no hosts. Therefore, nothing we find on Mars is going to want to jump inside us and have a party. In fact, the inside of the human body, with its high levels of oxygen and other materials uncommon to Mars, would probably be an inhospitable (and perhaps toxic) environment to a martian bug. The only way I can see a martian micro-organism giving us problems is in the unlikely scenario that they produce toxic (to us) chemicals as part of their metabolic processes, and are somehow able to multiply at sufficient rate in Earth's alien atmosphere. I doubt they'd be able to live inside us, but they might introduce toxic chemicals into the atmosphere. But then again, WE've been doing that for centuries. when i think of radical differences i just think how im an animal made of billions, hey probably trillions of cells for all i know, and the heat from a kettle can cause lasting damage to the upper layers of my skin. but then theres bacteria in the sea which traces back to the same basic source we do that can survive in water heated by volcanoes. Life on earth is exponentially complex and varied, for all we know, if a common ancestor at the microscopic level IS shared something that existed on mars could, brace yourselves for a trip stoners, have some counterpoint in earthen biology right? highly unlikely i know, but that damn line moore wrote for dr. manhattan about oxygen randomly transmuting into gold makes me think a lot more about probability, one of the few things in higher maths i actually had a grasp on at college.

[MikePizzoff]

This is awesome! I feel like there's going to be a huge discovery on Mars within the next decade. This feels like a giant step!