Was Harry Cooper a racist and/or terrible person?

[ProfessorChaos]

also when ben punches barbara, what good did that do? and he chilled barb's ass out with that punch, that way he could take care of business. i don't think cooper was racist, but ben certainly wasn't a villain, either.

[octo7]

by chilling her out you mean pushed her over the edge, he knocked her clean out and she never recovered , i thought it was a combination of that and her experience in the graveyard that left her with permanent psychosis. ben did it out of anger too rather than a calculated decision. if they had taken all that wood stacked it between the cellar door and the wall at the top of the stairs it would have been physically impossible for anyone or anything to get inside.

[MaximusIncredulous]

I doubt Cooper was racist. Until Ben came along, Cooper was pretty much in charge. Ben dislodged him from that spot and Cooper held it against him.

[darth los]

I don't really hold with the "Cooper was right" thing, though. Sure, it was ironic that the last hiding place for Ben was the cellar, but if everyone but Ben hadn't lost their balls and messed everything up, then upstairs would have worked out a LOT better - primarily because they would have been able to signal for help long before the posse got close enough to gun everyone down. Cooper definitely had a better hiding place for the purposes that he wanted to use it for: Protecting his family by hunkering down and waiting for help to come. Ben didn't have those considerations. His thing was more like: This is what I'm doing, you guys can come along if you want to but don't get in my way. As a matter of fact for all the talk about Cooper I can't think of a single thing Ben compromised on. It was his way or the highway, atleast inpart of the house. He said it himself, "You can be boss down there, I'm boss up here." Now that's not in keeping with the spirit of Bipartisanship now is it? He even ignored those that were on his "side." Barbara made a good suggestion as well. "Let's walk pass these puss brained bags of shit and those who want to hunker down in the cellar, let them and we'll send back help. That turned out to be a better plan than what ben had in mind as well. ---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ---------- In a life or death situation i would rather someone be an asshole as long as they had conviction and a plan, a zombie holocaust isnt exactly the kind of time to make friends and exchange pleasentries with someone, especially if you rightly suspect they have poor leadership qualities such as ben dfid. what it all boils dsown to is that the zombies did not go near the basement door or even notice its existence, cooper was right in his asumption and ben's wrecklessnes killed a child, 3 women and 2 men. also when ben punches barbara, what good did that do? Yeah, that asshole angle worked out real well for Cooper, Rhodes and the parties they were with. And no one is talking about exchanging pleasantries with someone. I'm the most straight up person i know, I like to get to the point and that's it. However, i do also realize that "pleasantries" are nescessary in some instances in order to "lubricate" a situation so that things can actually get done. If you don't agrre with someone's plan, fine, do your own thing and let them do their's. but that's not what happened. Their stubborness was a detriment to both of their plans and ultimately got them all killed. Isn't testosterone great!?!

[Mike70]

My own opinion of Harry Cooper (speaking only of NOTLD '68) is that he was a frightened and scared man who was concerned about his wife and daughter. If Ben had been white, do you think that Harry would have been more co-operative with him and that things may have come to a different outcome? that's pretty much always been my opinion of harry. just a very frightened person who is completely unsure of what to really do or how to react to what is happening. as for ben being white, i don't think it would've made any difference. harry was in such a frightened state of mind (which is a pretty inherently irrational) that i don't think it would've mattered if ben was one of yoda's people. harry already had his mind made up about what he wanted to do and in his state of mind, i don't really think that he would've been cooperative with anyone.

[darth los]

that's pretty much always been my opinion of harry. just a very frightened person who is completely unsure of what to really do or how to react to what is happening. as for ben being white, i don't think it would've made any difference. harry was in such a frightened state of mind (which is a pretty inherently irrational) that i don't think it would've mattered if ben was one of yoda's people. harry already had his mind made up about what he wanted to do and in his state of mind, i don't really think that he would've been cooperative with anyone. Yeah, but did ya see his face when tom decided that he and judy were gonna team up with Ben? If he was his wife he would have bitch slapped him.

[sandrock74]

I don't think Harry was racist. It simply came down to Harry and Ben not getting along, which led to them not liking one another. Period. Harry was in a panicked state, which is never a good time to try dealing with someone during the best of times. Ben had a strong personality and could be stubborn. Each man had his plan going until they met and each saw the other as a possible threat to their individual plan. Ben and Tom got along well, but, as its been pointed out, Tom was of a more "laid back" personality type...someone willing to follow the leader. Tom (and therefore Judy) switching sides was seen by Harry as a form of betrayal, and a further challenge to his "epic plan". He saw Ben as a rival (threat) to his "plan" and his "leadership". He had lost two of his "followers" to this other man, and even his own wife was questioning if Ben had a better plan. Helens comments hint to Harry having some issues in regards to always needing to be right and such, so it can be reasonably assumed that Harry has a history of disliking being questioned and/or having his "authority" in a given situation challenged. Ben was the more dominant personality between himself and Harry Cooper. I believe that alone was enough to rattle Coopers cage in most situations...what was going on outside just compunded everything to the Nth degree. It was The Breaking Point. If Harry were racist, he would have shown it. Certainly, he would have shown it in the privacy of the basement, to his wife. But never once did Harry use a racial slur, a derogatory remark, or even a curse towards Ben. They just plain didn't get along. To quote Hank Hill (from "King Of The Hill"): "What the hell kind of country is this where I can only hate a man if he's white?"

[jded]

Ben and Cooper were complete opposites within the realm of decision making. Both took action but neither were willing to give up there stance and opinions and come to a mutual agreement. They were oblivious to the fact that they were in the same boat. Helen said it best: " That's what's important isn't it? For you to be right and everyone else to be wrong." And that's coming from his wife. Who else would know the character of the man any better? I don't see Cooper as a racist. I saw a man who was selfish. A man who would not help because if he had it would have damaged his ego. In his mind he was right for holing up in the cellar, therefore if he weakened to the idea of Ben's plan and given a hand it would have lessened his accomplishment and confidence. You would hope after all information was gathered that a more proper plan would not be disregarded due to ignorance. Only in a perfect world would we find this lack of indecisiveness.

[darth los]

Ben and Cooper were complete opposites within the realm of decision making. Both took action but neither were willing to give up there stance and opinions and come to a mutual agreement. They were oblivious to the fact that they were in the same boat.I don't see Cooper as a racist. I saw a man who was selfish. A man who would not help because if he had it would have damaged his ego. In his mind he was right for holing up in the cellar, therefore if he weakened to the idea of Ben's plan and given a hand it would have lessened his accomplishment and confidence. You would hope after all information was gathered that a more proper plan would not be disregarded due to ignorance. Only in a perfect world would we find this lack of indecisiveness. that was the point of that post. To shed some light on other flaws in his character that would explain his assholeness throughout the film. Because attribute it to whatever you want to, bottom line is the man was a dick. Perhaps he was a dick because of the straits he found himself and his family were in but that quote by helen indicates that it was business as usual for him.

[SRP76]

No racism, imo. Just two guys that both want to be in charge. It just so happens that one of them is black. Exactly. Cooper was just a know-it-all, not a racist. Tom and Helen sure as hell weren't black, and he treated them the exact same way he did Ben. Didn't matter what color anyone was; Cooper would have sworn he was right regardless.

[darth los]

Exactly. Cooper was just a know-it-all, not a racist. Tom and Helen sure as hell weren't black, and he treated them the exact same way he did Ben. Didn't matter what color anyone was; Cooper would have sworn he was right regardless. That's probably a better assesment. Although jut like the racism angle, it can't be quantified. Who knows what lurks in the hearts of men.

[sandrock74]

Who knows what lurks in the hearts of men. The Shadow knows!

[SymphonicX]

Race was never called into question in the movie... I think all you need to do is analyse the incentives of the two characters....One's incentive is to protect his family at all costs, to the point of blinkering off the world. The other, with no loyalties to anyone in the house, has a survival incentive - one to fight and get out of the situation. Ben had nothing tying him down, Cooper had a family to fight for. The incentives here are skewed and conflicting. Neither one was right but I always got the feeling that Ben came off worse than Harry at some points - but let's not forget that Cooper wasn't perfect and put himself and everyone in mortal danger... It was just purely coincidental that Harry was right about the door not breaking. No one knew if that thing would hold with 100 zombies trying to punch through - and Ben was RIGHT, it was certain death for them if they had broken through. I think Harry was the antagonist in this movie - let's not forget that...but the reasons why Cooper was the antagonist - simply a skewed, conflicting incentive to survive.

[Ghost Of War]

Interesting thread...here's my tuppence...The only person who thought Cooper was racist was Ben. I think he'd had to deal with racists before, and he thought "here we go again, another white man trying to tell me what to do" when Cooper appeared, and this is also why I think he hesitated at the end of the film (see "Night Thought" thread). Harry was a bit of a prick and a know-all, his wife's comments towards him convinced me of that, but he was scared, and when people are scared, they get defensive, especially when they've got a family to protect. Harry had a sick daughter to worry about too, but all Ben wanted to do was get out of there.

[BillyRay]

and he chilled barb's ass out with that punch, that way he could take care of business. The only alternative, classicly, for dealing with a hysterical woman would be to kiss her. And that just wasn't gonna happen on film in 1968... As far as Harry, yeah he's the classic button-down, asshole middle-manager type. While not inherrently racist, he's simply an all-around unpleasant person to deal with. I know the type. I've been the type, it's not fun being him, either. His marrage is going down the tubes. The only good thing that's come from him is his little girl. (Look how tender he gets when he gets for a minute there down in the cellar) He's gonna fight for her the only way he knows how - by barking orders. It worked so far with Tommy & Judy. But they're "good" kids. The type that respect their elders. The arrival of Ben - who's cool head immediately makes things a bit more hopeful - is a threat. Harry's no longer managing, no longer the 'Alpha'. If Harry had only been cool, more people would have made it. NOTLD wouldn't have been nearly as horrifying or fun, but more of them would have made it. More importantly: What if Tommy had learned to pump gas correctly?