News of the World phone hacking

[Publius]

From a while back (September 2010): http://dizzythinks.net/2010/09/meanw...eal-world.html "Dizzy" versus the Federal Communications Commission: http://www.fcc.gov/guides/voice-mail-fraud: A hacker calls into a voice mail system and searches for voice mailboxes that still have the default passwords active or have passwords with easily-guessed combinations, like 1-2-3-4. (Hackers know common default passwords and are able to try out the common ones until they can break into the phone system.)

[SymphonicX]

"Dizzy" versus the Federal Communications Commission: http://www.fcc.gov/guides/voice-mail-fraud: Federal laws count the UK in too? Better stop jay-walking...lol (jay walking...I got that from lethal weapon...)

[Andy]

Federal laws dont apply in the uk but under UK law one of the key definations of hacking is accessing information which you have no right or permission to access, The single most common form of hacking is guessing passwords and abusing default passwords on services and devices. Its not glitzy or glamorous like people seem to think all hacking is but its the most widespread form and it is very much hacking.

[SymphonicX]

Federal laws dont apply in the uk but under UK law one of the key definations of hacking is accessing information which you have no right or permission to access, The single most common form of hacking is guessing passwords and abusing default passwords on services and devices. Its not glitzy or glamorous like people seem to think all hacking is but its the most widespread form and it is very much hacking. I have a problem with this definition. As I said its the difference between thievery and robbery. If you leave your house doors and windows unlocked, and something goes missing, you were thieved from - if you lock your doors, lock your windows, and someone breaks in - it is robbery. (Both are classed as burglary). Same as, if you leave your bag open in a public area, someone steals something, you were thieved from. If you have your bag closed and someone threatens you with violence to take the contents, you were robbed! So to "hack" someone's voicemail because they have left it unprotected shouldn't be hacking, hacking should require security measures being circumvented - if it wasn't protected, it was simply intercepted. It was always free on the information highway - the bag was open, the doors unlocked, so it was intercepted - in the same way a tenner blowing down the road becomes yours if you manage to catch it - but if you take it from someone who's made a deliberate effort to keep it safe - like putting it in a wallet, then you're not intercepting it - you're hacking in to the wallet, and stealing. Both are roundabout ways of theft of information the thief isn't entitled to, but I think I've made my point.

[MinionZombie]

It might be a technicality to some, but I think it's an important distinction to make. And I wonder how many people who are up in arms have themselves 'hacked' into the phone/email account/whatever of their partner/bf/gf/husband/wife/whatever?

[Andy]

I have a problem with this definition. As I said its the difference between thievery and robbery. If you leave your house doors and windows unlocked, and something goes missing, you were thieved from - if you lock your doors, lock your windows, and someone breaks in - it is robbery. (Both are classed as burglary). Same as, if you leave your bag open in a public area, someone steals something, you were thieved from. If you have your bag closed and someone threatens you with violence to take the contents, you were robbed! So to "hack" someone's voicemail because they have left it unprotected shouldn't be hacking, hacking should require security measures being circumvented - if it wasn't protected, it was simply intercepted. It was always free on the information highway - the bag was open, the doors unlocked, so it was intercepted - in the same way a tenner blowing down the road becomes yours if you manage to catch it - but if you take it from someone who's made a deliberate effort to keep it safe - like putting it in a wallet, then you're not intercepting it - you're hacking in to the wallet, and stealing. Both are roundabout ways of theft of information the thief isn't entitled to, but I think I've made my point. Well if we're talking about the law, a tenner floating down the street that you happen to catch isnt yours, your supposed to turn it into a police station and wait 6 weeks for it to be claimed or become 'abandoned property' and legally yours. If you keep it without doing that, you are technically stealing and can be charged with theft.

[Tricky]

In short, the media, especially reporters, are disgusting sharks who are willing to break any moral or ethical codes if it gets them a story, and if that doesnt happen then they just make them up Remember how that vile Piers Morgan printed those pictures of supposed British soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners? The photos were fake, yet the backlash over the photos in Iraq led to riots, deaths and a rise in insurgency, all because a tabloid made up a story. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3716151.stm And how the Reuters news group used photoshopped images on more than one occasion to show Israel in a bad light.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_H...hs_controversy Then theres the BBC who are so biased its unreal! Honest question, is there any newsgroup out there that is truly unbiased, just presents the facts and nothing else, so that people can make their own minds up?

[MinionZombie]

Ugh, don't even get me started on news media (too late ) - particularly television news - I was talking about this to a colleague of mine t'other week (we're from opposite sides of the political spectrum), and we both agreed that TV news is shocking, and has been for a long time. It's not news, it's opinion, bias-by-omission, and preening self-important news readers putting their spin on events - when it should be bloody simple and straight forward. Find out what the basic facts of a situation are - AND REPORT THEM AS-IS. How hard can that be?! What it is - is an abuse of power. Indeed, relating to all that righteous indignation about the Murdoch BSkyB bid (in which Sky News wasn't included), here's an interesting article about the actual state of television (and internet) news provision in the UK ... it seems that the BBC are actually the monopoly, and like Sky News, ITV News, Channel 4 News et al, their news output is shit. http://conservativehome.blogs.com/pl...ntgomerie.html The basics boil down to: TELEVISION ACCOUNTS FOR 73% OF NEWS THE BBC ACCOUNTS FOR 70% OF TV NEWS COVERAGE THE BBC IS EVEN MORE DOMINANT IN PROVIDING INTERNET NEWS ANOTHER AREA WHERE THE BBC IS DOMINANT IS RADIO DISCLAIMER: I'm speaking specifically about Television News - including the BBC's news output - not the BBC or Sky or ITN or Channel 4 in general (they have provided countless quality pieces of programming in the past, and will do in the future ... but their news output is shite). While, yes, News International are the biggest players in newspapers here in the UK, readership of newspapers has been on the swift decline for years (the likes of Murdoch are dinosaurs of a bygone era), and being that the majority of news consumption is via the television (73%), News International becomes instantly less important - much like the rest of 'Fleet Street'. Back to TV news in general though, the distinct lack of CONTEXT afforded to the few reported items is, frankly, shameful. It's irresponsible for so-called news providers to flog half the story (and you'd be lucky to get half of it) and call it quality reporting. BBC, Sky, ITN, C4 - the lot of them are all at it. A shocking lack of context, bias-by-omission, self-important presenters putting their own personal spin on events ... in short - wankers who are abusing a position of power to stroke their own egos and extend their personal 'closed circle' view of socio-political issues to the nation. How hard is it to ask the simple questions and report back on the basic facts relating to them? How hard is it to report the news without putting your own spin on it? There's a lot of chirupping about Fox News (which I can't stand watching), but our old friend the glass house - riddled with stone-broken windows - returns, because without a doubt there's not one television news provider who can actually, truly, honestly, hold their heads high. The hypocrisy is stifling. Personally, I get my news from the internet - and when it comes to politics - from a handful of blogs. The good thing about blogs is, they actually bother to do this thing called investigating an issue, and they provide full reasoned articles on issues in real-time ... and even better, if they've cocked something up, misrepresented something, or flat out lied about something, the readership will respond almost immediately to point out mistakes/untruths - and they'll back it up with evidence to clearly show something has been incorrect. You don't get that instant reader/viewer feedback with the TV news giants, who couldn't give a shit about what the viewers actually think ... and they certainly don't give a shit about reporting facts, fully contextualised, without a hint of personal opinion thrust upon them by some arrogant newsreader (so you read an autocue, big whoop, get over yourself, you're not Woodward or Bernstein ). /rant *deep breath* That's better. -- -------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ---------- Unsurprisingly, the can of worms is starting to open... http://order-order.com/2011/07/12/pi...op-was-hacked/ -- -------- Post added 13-Jul-2011 at 10:36 AM ---------- Previous post was 12-Jul-2011 at 07:48 PM ---------- Yet more worms from the can - Gordon Brown, clearly seeking revenge for News International ditching him and his party from their favour prior to last year's election - came out swinging that his son's medical records had been hacked by The Sun ... but The Sun has come out swinging calling 'bullshit on that': http://uk.news.yahoo.com/sun-fights-...044624984.html Seemingly the info came from a member of the public who knew of Brown's son's illness, and the paper contacted the Brown's directly and sought their approval prior to publishing. Oh that plot, it keeps getting ever thicker...

[SymphonicX]

Well if we're talking about the law, a tenner floating down the street that you happen to catch isnt yours, your supposed to turn it into a police station and wait 6 weeks for it to be claimed or become 'abandoned property' and legally yours. If you keep it without doing that, you are technically stealing and can be charged with theft. Very good point hahaha Yeah I defo give back all the money I find...

[BillyRay]

Looks like the FBI is looking into the Murdoch Empire phonehacking 911 victims' families: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43750733...d_news-europe/ Will Faux News be next? Please?

[Tricky]

Now that the americans have got wind that 9/11 victims families were "hacked" too, I would say the Murdoch empire will collapse like a house of cards soon. Good riddance, maybe we'll start getting some news that isnt celebrity obsessed, though I wont count on it...

[MinionZombie]

Now that the americans have got wind that 9/11 victims families were "hacked" too, I would say the Murdoch empire will collapse like a house of cards soon. Good riddance, maybe we'll start getting some news that isnt celebrity obsessed, though I wont count on it... The shockingly shit state of television, and even newspaper, journalism and news reporting extends far beyond the Murdoch empire. The lot of it is shite.

[Danny]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...rld-sean-hoare so the guy who blew the whistle on this has been found dead and police are listing his death as "unexplained, but not suspicious". welp, i wonder how much it took to pay them off huh?

[Tricky]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...rld-sean-hoare so the guy who blew the whistle on this has been found dead and police are listing his death as "unexplained, but not suspicious". welp, i wonder how much it took to pay them off huh? I hate to sound like a tin foil hat wearer, but it sounds awfully suspicious, perhaps it was a "walk in the woods" as per David Kelly? The thing thats bugging me about this now is that the genuine concern regarding "hacking" the Dowler family and the families of soldiers KIA has been pushed into the background, and its all about wailing celebrities and politicians, who are now having a witch hunt in revenge for their expenses abuses being revealed by the press a couple of years ago. I think the government will now use this as an excuse to gag the press which is not a good thing.

[MinionZombie]

Regarding Tom Baldwin - aka, why Ed Milliband and Labour should shut the fuck up and stop throwing stones from their glass house - there was an interesting link regarding him (who is still working for Labour, by the way, unlike Coulson - who hasn't been convicted or found guilty of anything he did prior to working for the government - who was long since given the heave-ho) and David Kelly. http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...p-2315879.html When the Tories look for a victim of Baldwin's journalism they present us with Lord Ashcroft. They don't see that sympathy for the suffering vulnerability of a billionaire is limited. More to the point is David Kelly – for Baldwin was the News International journalist used to get Kelly's name out. For all the awfulness of the Milly Dowler case, the poor child was beyond the reach of this world when the journalists paid for her phone to be hacked. Baldwin's action as a communications agent for the government of the day started a chain of events which led directly to the death of Dr Kelly. It's also pretty rich for any Labourites to be calling for Cameron's head (which is just plain ridiculous wishful thinking on the part of a gaggle of rabid lefties ... do remember we've still got a ridiculous economic situation that needs fixing, pension reform, health reform, etc etc etc - all things that the last lot did fuck all about for 13 years) when in recent times Labour have had Tom Baldwin, Derek Draper, Damian McBride, and last but far from least, Alistair-fucking-Campbell on their payroll. And regarding journalism in general, this was an interesting post by Guido: http://order-order.com/2011/07/16/we...ar-journalism/ Particular note the "blagging chart" - and which company is the worst offender? Nope, not NI - the Daily Mail is far ahead of them - but the worst offender is, surprise-surprise, Trinity Mirror Group, who print the bogroll known as the Daily Mirror ... and yet with the pathetic coverage of this story in the media (both televised and printed), you'd think it was all "evil Murdoch" and "those NI bastards" ... when in fact it's the ruddy lot of them, and indeed, those who protest too much are in fact the very worst offenders, both in general, but moreso due to their rank hypocrisy. -- -------- Post added at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ---------- And here's a spiffing little post by Dizzy Thinks regarding some perspective when it comes to that handful of raving loonies on the rabid left calling for DC's resignation. http://dizzythinks.net/2011/07/perspective.html Prime Minister: Tony Blair Allegation: Accused of modifying government policy relating to tobacco advertising in sports in return for a donation of £1 million to his political party Truth Status: Not proven - opinions on truth dependent on personal prejudices. Donation eventually returned (although modified policy remained in force) What Opponents Said: Resign Political Status: Survived and won following two elections. Prime Minister: Tony Blair Allegation: Along with his Director of Commmunication accused of lying to Parliament by embelishing and "sexing up" the case for the Iraq War. Presure intensified by the sudden, mysterious death of whistleblower leading to multiple inquiries and conspiracy theories. Truth Status: Not proven - opinions on truth dependent on personal prejudices. What Opponents Said: Resign Political Status: Survived and won following election. Prime Minister: Tony Blair Allegation: That peerages and knighthoods were offered and exchanged for loans and donations to the Labour Party. Staff in Downing Street including the Prime Minister questioned by Police. Truth Status: Not proven - opinions on truth dependent on personal prejudices. What Opponents Said: Resign Political Status: Survived Prime Minister: David Cameron Allegation: That he previously employed someone who has since resigned, who may have - as yet to be proven but alleged by a whistle-blower who has suddenly died - acted criminally prior to his employment; and to have met with multiple times on both personal and business terms (in keeping with his two predecessors), the Chief Executive of a newspaper business. Truth Status: What exactly is the allegation? Opinion will depend on personal prejudices. What Opponents Said: Resign Political Status: To Be Confirmed (oddly) -- -------- Post added at 03:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:44 AM ---------- Further to the issue of the rank hypocrisy coming from a certain portion of the media over this issue, I found this to be a nice little article: http://www.thecommentator.com/index....everyone_else_ Commentators who regularly lambast dictatorships are happy to throw away presumption of innocence and a principle. Instead, all at NI are guilty by association, and the opportunity to destroy the majority of the right-wing press is too good to miss. Freedom of speech and the press is only acceptable to them when it is suits their narrative. If the inquiry determines who has acted improperly and caused so much pain for the families involved then they should suffer the consequences, but the political point scoring over tragic events from years ago is appalling to watch. The line is always the same, the Murdoch Empire is evil and their newspapers spout reprehensible bilge. This portrayal is in spite of the fact that over seven million people read it every week before it closed, compared to the two-hundred and seventy thousand ‘progressive majority’ that buy the Guardian. ... But of course, the liberal-left can never find fault amongst themselves. It must all be Rupert Murdoch’s fault. A self-made business man with a net worth of $7.6billion who has created over fifty-thousand jobs must have personally asked for Milly Dowler’s phone to be hacked. Ed Miliband may consider this to be the best fortnight in his brief career as leader, but he would be wise to remember who the real victims are in this saga, and whether they enjoy being dragged through the press again.