TWD 8x01 "Mercy" episode discussion... **SPOILERS*

[DayoftheZ]

Can’t say I was a massive fan of the time Skipping and the whole Gabriel being captured was an eye roller and it didn’t feel that necessary. Loved the visual of Carl matching that of Rick in the pilot with all cars and trucks laid out the same and walkers sat I the car the same, even the first walker showing up again as an older version of the little girl he shot first, cheek missing an all. Overall I enjoyed it but just hope we can cut out the time skips but I have a feeling this is going to carry on for the first half.

[MinionZombie]

Can’t say I was a massive fan of the time Skipping and the whole Gabriel being captured was an eye roller and it didn’t feel that necessary. I wouldn't say Gabriel was captured, he was effed over by Gregory, after showing compassion for one of the meek, and ended up stuck in no man's land with Negan. Speaking of Gabriel, it was interesting with him telling Rick to pack it in and get a shift on - it's not just a Rick/Negan thing - there's entire communities involved and they require strong leadership. The walker herd was approaching and the last thing they needed was the loss of a key man and driving force. ... Thinking further about the 100th episode thing, having now seen Talking Dead, it seems it was more about that show than TWD specifically - in that it was a celebration of TWD in general at a landmark moment. To be fair to Gimple & Co, they never said there'd be an extended episode for it.

[facestabber]

I wouldn't say Gabriel was captured, he was effed over by Gregory, after showing compassion for one of the meek, and ended up stuck in no man's land with Negan. Speaking of Gabriel, it was interesting with him telling Rick to pack it in and get a shift on - it's not just a Rick/Negan thing - there's entire communities involved and they require strong leadership. The walker herd was approaching and the last thing they needed was the loss of a key man and driving force. ... Thinking further about the 100th episode thing, having now seen Talking Dead, it seems it was more about that show than TWD specifically - in that it was a celebration of TWD in general at a landmark moment. To be fair to Gimple & Co, they never said there'd be an extended episode for it. The sad thing is, no one(that we know of) saw what Gregory did.

[Moon Knight]

I liked it. I’m alright with the play on time as long as it is followed through and makes sense in the end. Also, the show has the same amount of commercials every airing and yet people still complain that’s there’s too many commercials lol 8 seasons and still the same amount of commercials. Not a great episode but far from horrible. I agree could have been a bit stronger for a premier but it’s a piece of a larger puzzle. Again, as long as they follow through nicely I’m ok with it.

[facestabber]

I liked it. I’m alright with the play on time as long as it is followed through and makes sense in the end. Also, the show has the same amount of commercials every airing and yet people still complain that’s there’s too many commercials lol 8 seasons and still the same amount of commercials. Not a great episode but far from horrible. I agree could have been a bit stronger for a premier but it’s a piece of a larger puzzle. Again, as long as they follow through nicely I’m ok with it. I think the perception of the commercials timing is real. Some episodes, they are complete mood killers. There were some good moments. Such as minimal Rosita........kidding moon I was entertained. 10/10 premieres were Seasons 1,5, and 7. All different but an amazing ride. I was hoping 100th episode could be a 10/10 but to me probably hit a 7.

[MinionZombie]

I liked it. I’m alright with the play on time as long as it is followed through and makes sense in the end. Also, the show has the same amount of commercials every airing and yet people still complain that’s there’s too many commercials lol 8 seasons and still the same amount of commercials. Not a great episode but far from horrible. I agree could have been a bit stronger for a premier but it’s a piece of a larger puzzle. Again, as long as they follow through nicely I’m ok with it. 1) Agreed. For me it gives an insight into what they're fighting for. The way they've graded it makes it look like a dream, I think for two reasons: A) to make it seem like a dream and not a flash forward, so it keeps viewers guessing, and B) because at this point it is just a hope for the future. 2) If anything there were fewers adverts with this episode as it clocked in at 47 minutes - about 3 or 4 minutes longer than the usual. I take it, though, that over there you guys have more frequent (but shorter) advert breaks? Over here we have three breaks inside an hour's slot that each run 4 or 5 minutes each (time for a slash, or make a cuppa). We also have a legal limit on the percentage of a broadcast hour that can be advertisements. 3) Piece of a larger puzzle - exactly. IGN seemed to be pissed off that they didn't cram the entirety of All Out War into the first bloody episode. And the idea of killing Negan - one of the biggest and most charismatic villains - straight away is just stupid. If he was snuffed out, where the hell is your defined antagonist?! What I will say is that, yes, they needed to write into the script more justification for not being able to shoot Negan. It was interesting that Rick used all the lieutenant's names. For one, it shows he knows more than they might think he knows, but it also puts a more human touch on it - rather than "good guys/bad guys" without any names. As we saw with the lieutenant on the far right of frame, he wasn't so convinced about diving into a war. This shows that there are Saviours who can be won over to a better cause and way of doing things. Rick & Co - or "the Allies", if you will - are in a tricky position. They've got a rogue state (essentially) to deal with, but then they've also got the challenge of winning over the Saviours who survive the war, their civilian population included. Just look at how they dealt with The Governor in the Season 3 finale - they ran the head honchos of Woodbury out of town and took in the town's innocent populace. The precedent was set way back then. I think the perception of the commercials timing is real. Some episodes, they are complete mood killers. Yeah, if they're poorly placed they can really suck the life out of something. I've seen it on other shows, especially American ones as the placement of advert breaks is different here than it is there, so oftentimes we'll have a momentary cut-to-black (where an American advert break would have been) but then continue on ... then we'll cut to a British-placed advert break between scenes that previously flowed on one-to-the-other over the states, so it goes against the intended pacing of the original script (being that the show is often written according to the advert breaks of the country of origin - they're used as a pacing tool by some, but seen as a hindrance by others).

[Neil]

Only 1 person has to die and............they shot out a bunch of windows!!!!!! Classic. I was watching that scene with my eyebrows raised till it hurt! Bizarre!

[Moon Knight]

I think the perception of the commercials timing is real. Some episodes, they are complete mood killers. There were some good moments. Such as minimal Rosita........kidding moon I was entertained. 10/10 premieres were Seasons 1,5, and 7. All different but an amazing ride. I was hoping 100th episode could be a 10/10 but to me probably hit a 7. Well said. A 7 is pretty fair. Also, about the commercials. They have the same amount of adverts each week depending on length of the episode but they do have control on placement, and I agree some are a bit jarring. MZ- I loved when Rick called out the lieutenants. As far as Gavin is concerned, if any Savior deserves a redemption arc it’s him. He’s clearly a guy just trying to get by and not an asshole like Jared. He could have easily been on Rick’s side. The only guy up there wanting a “time out” to discuss things. - - - Updated - - - Also, I boycott IGN reviews for everything. They are the worst. I don’t waste my time.

[facestabber]

I was happy with the announcement of a preplanned exfil from Alexandria if attacked and a predetermined rendezvous. They learned their lesson from prison.

[Moon Knight]

I was happy with the announcement of a preplanned exfil from Alexandria if attacked and a predetermined rendezvous. They learned their lesson from prison. The group taking out the lookouts before marching off to the Sanctuary was another clever example of the survivors learning from previous mistakes and experiences.

[JDP]

The group taking out the lookouts before marching off to the Sanctuary was another clever example of the survivors learning from previous mistakes and experiences. But strangely enough, they are not learning the very important lesson of quickly eliminating the leader of an enemy group. If they had done that with the Governor they would probably still be living safely in the prison. Now they are repeating the same mistake with Negan.

[facestabber]

But strangely enough, they are not learning the very important lesson of quickly eliminating the leader of an enemy group. If they had done that with the Governor they would probably still be living safely in the prison. Now they are repeating the same mistake with Negan. Valid point. And hindsight shows us Woodbury was a complete collapse without the Gov. shuppert and Martinez wanted no part of filling that void. I realize the show can't kill Negan at this point but for the love of god have him stand inside the doorway or a concrete wall barely exposed. Gimple has Negan so grandiose that he feels it necessary to have him stand out in open and against an armored and heavy armed foe!!!!! Or I guess blame Nicotero since he directed this.

[JDP]

Valid point. And hindsight shows us Woodbury was a complete collapse without the Gov. shuppert and Martinez wanted no part of filling that void. I realize the show can't kill Negan at this point but for the love of god have him stand inside the doorway or a concrete wall barely exposed. Gimple has Negan so grandiose that he feels it necessary to have him stand out in open and against an armored and heavy armed foe!!!!! Or I guess blame Nicotero since he directed this. Quite correct. We all know why Negan for the moment must not die, but this could be done in a more believable manner. As it is, they are making this guy seem basically "bulletproof".

[MinionZombie]

But strangely enough, they are not learning the very important lesson of quickly eliminating the leader of an enemy group. If they had done that with the Governor they would probably still be living safely in the prison. Now they are repeating the same mistake with Negan. To be fair, their mission inside Woodbury was to rescue their friends first and foremost ... and Michonne went rogue and attempted to take out The Governor herself and nearly succeeded. Of course, the ways The Governor and Negan operate are different. The Governor was very split in his approach - his civilian population believed he was a good guy (the picnic with cold drinks, that Andrea was so stunned by), while his main men (Merle, Shumpert, Martinez, etc - even Milton) knew what he was really like - although, even then, even they didn't know he had fishtanks filled with walker heads. Negan, meanwhile, is very open about who he is - his approach is ruling with an iron (excuse the pun) fist. He rules by open fear and intimidation and has bred a cult, of sorts. I keep circling back to the idea of a "rogue state" with a populace living in fear with a savage military arm that will do whatever it is told. Even if they shot Negan, there's still a host of lieutenants waiting in the wings, and numerous members of the Negan army - you'd essentially create chaos - and there'll be plenty of good people inside the Sanctuary (as we saw when Eugene was taken there first of all), so you'd want to win them over. You can't just snuff out everyone and once the war is over you want new allies, not scattered enemies. One thing that's a bit frustrating at the moment is Eugene - the way they've written his supposed 'turn to the dark side' is a bit jumbled. Has he really gone over, or is he just keeping his head down for the time being (probably the latter)?

[facestabber]

To be fair, their mission inside Woodbury was to rescue their friends first and foremost ... and Michonne went rogue and attempted to take out The Governor herself and nearly succeeded. Of course, the ways The Governor and Negan operate are different. The Governor was very split in his approach - his civilian population believed he was a good guy (the picnic with cold drinks, that Andrea was so stunned by), while his main men (Merle, Shumpert, Martinez, etc - even Milton) knew what he was really like - although, even then, even they didn't know he had fishtanks filled with walker heads. Negan, meanwhile, is very open about who he is - his approach is ruling with an iron (excuse the pun) fist. He rules by open fear and intimidation and has bred a cult, of sorts. I keep circling back to the idea of a "rogue state" with a populace living in fear with a savage military arm that will do whatever it is told. Even if they shot Negan, there's still a host of lieutenants waiting in the wings, and numerous members of the Negan army - you'd essentially create chaos - and there'll be plenty of good people inside the Sanctuary (as we saw when Eugene was taken there first of all), so you'd want to win them over. You can't just snuff out everyone and once the war is over you want new allies, not scattered enemies. One thing that's a bit frustrating at the moment is Eugene - the way they've written his supposed 'turn to the dark side' is a bit jumbled. Has he really gone over, or is he just keeping his head down for the time being (probably the latter)? I have to believe the latter for Eugene. Even though Rosita treated him terribly, Eugene has good in him. I think he is living by Enid's JSS. He's not the type to run and gun his way out. He's plotting, studying and scheming.