Corona Virus

[JDP]

That wasn't exactly a thunderous take down. He barely said much of anything, really. Such a brief clip. "Cult like" is a bit reactionary, don't you think? What's the research on antibodies for those who have had Covid? How long do they last for? How much do they help for fighting another Covid infection etc? We know that, disappointingly, the vaccines don't work long term, but they do give people a fighting chance rather than going into a total pot luck situation - one of the bitches about this fucking virus is that someone can get it and they have a few rough days, but someone else can get it and have a hell of a time and suffer 'long covid', and still another someone can get it and die a terrible death. Other personal health factors weigh in, but even still - the likes of Trump, poster boy for treating your body like shit, sails through (on route to making sure he and his family are all vaccinated while stirring up shit in his support base to not get the vaccine). We need a better vaccine for this virus, too. Something that can kick it to the fucking kerb. I know, and some people even get it and never even find out they've had it at all, that's how little it does to them. It's like a biological Russian Roulette!

[Neil]

That wasn't exactly a thunderous take down. He barely said much of anything, really. Such a brief clip. What's interesting is the reaction of the first group (of women). They appear not to want to voice their opinions... But as soon as the man (doctor?) starts to comment, you can see the body language of some of them 'agree'. He points out the lunacy of the current policies. ie: Tens of thousands of NHS individuals losing their jobs, or being reassigned, and of course tens of thousands care staff losing their jobs, for what logical reason? Both of these work forces are already stretched, and yet here we are sacking them for what gain? Heck some care homes are now struggling meaning the residents are having to go into hospitals where they are of course at greater risk! We're kicking these groups for no logical reason and no true benefit other than for seemingly posturing and feelies. In reality it's simply risking making things worse... "Cult like" is a bit reactionary, don't you think? Alas IMHO, no. We have far too much stuff going on that is not resulting in the greater good by listening to the reasoned rational science. And instead far too much simply aimed at short term (political) gains, or simply feelies. Consider:- The almost distopian unhinged out of proportion antics going on in certain places now, such as Austria or Quebec. Social Media continuing their agenda of seemingly silencing anyone not singing from their approved hymn book. Comically some of which has done a complete 180 in the space of one year highlighting the censorial idiocy. Measures taken to save lives against to covid, with little/no consideration for the potentially greater number of lives lost due to those measures. ie: We're going to now witness huge spikes in untreated/indiagnosed conditions etc. Or even Djokovic simply trying to enter Australia. He has the best anti-bodies possible (natural ones from last month). Ones that are probably far more effective (significantly research suggests) than those generated from a vaccine, yet they are preventing him from entering the country on what (sound) logic? I'd describe these antics akin to cult like personally... What's the research on antibodies for those who have had Covid? How long do they last for? How much do they help for fighting another Covid infection etc? What we know is the efficacy of the vaccines is constantly being reassessed. You may remember initially they were pitched as basically 100%, but that has now fallen and fallen and fallen. Studies now seem to imply that the vaccine gives about 6-8 weeks of raised immunity levels. Of course most vaccinated people are outside that window. And indeed even these figures have been brought into question with studies on household infection rates which seem to show little/no difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated households. We need to also look at studies of neighbouring countries and regions with high vaccination rates and lower vaccination rates, and there's no clear indication the vaccine is preventing infection. Indeed at times it's oddly contrary to that. And of course this is on the back of the data I raised before that is strangely showing at times unvaccinated people are significantly less likely to be the individuals in hospital due to covid. Odd, but backed up by data it seems. They do give people a fighting chance rather than going into a total pot luck situation - One of the bitches about this fucking virus is that someone can get it and they have a few rough days, but someone else can get it and have a hell of a time and suffer 'long covid', and still another someone can get it and die a terrible death. Yep, although the recent variant(s) seem to be far less likely to result in extreme conditions? And it is important to note of course the vaccine does seem to be significantly reducing death rates. Along with other treatments now being used. Other personal health factors weigh in, but even still - the likes of Trump, poster boy for treating your body like shit, sails through (on route to making sure he and his family are all vaccinated while stirring up shit in his support base to not get the vaccine). Not sure why you mention Trump out of no where? And suggest "treating your body like shit"? He's pro vaccine, and pro infection treatment, eg with the likes of hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin etc. Treatments which unfortunately seem to have been only recently more seriously considered, because some of these treatments for some individuals seem to be effective. It was of course interesting that hydroxychloroquine was instantly demonised by the MSM (& social media) when Trump discussed it, because of seemingly, "Orange man bad". And ivermectin was demonsided with almost criminal off the scale insane antics by the MSM (CNN at their best again) when Joe Rogan mentioned it, no doubt because he simply wasn't saying the right things. Shame Joe didn't sue TBH as they need to stop these unhinged antics. ...But this of course brings us back around to the cult like behaviour... We need a better vaccine for this virus, too. Something that can kick it to the fucking kerb. Well, it seems thankfully to be doing that itself naturally, as seems to be the way with (some) viruses. For your average individual, they'd be pressed to tell the difference now between covid and a cold. Add to this vaccinating people at risk, better care for those infected, and we're now good to go IMHO. Note: A number of my friends have had covid recently. Some didn't even know they had it, testing only because other people had tested positive, and others described it as a bad cold for 2-3 days. Ultimately everyone is going to get it at some point, just like they do other covid diseased. Vaccinate those at high risk. Take tests as/when applicable. Improve care for those with serious conditions from it. But let's move on... Enough damage has already been done... - - - Updated - - - I know, and some people even get it and never even find out they've had it at all, that's how little it does to them. It's like a biological Russian Roulette! Long covid is the odd one. Some people suffering months and months on Hopefully the newer variants are kinda in this department.

[MinionZombie]

Mentioned Trump merely as short hand for the issue of poor personal health (e.g. obesity) playing into the hands of Covid (i.e. more likely to suffer worse) - however, further to the point of how fucking random Covid is, even a sack of crap like Trump with his midnight cheeseburgers sailed through Covid. Interesting that BoJo, slob that he is, had a worse time of it (relatively speaking), though. I do agree that it seems like a really bad idea to be hacking away at health workers simply because the NHS is forever complaining about never having enough people (or enough money, funnily enough). As you say, when you're already stretched with Covid-related absenteeism (people sheltering), it doesn't scream practicality. However, I can also see it from the standpoint of these are people who are some of the most likely to catch - and spread - the virus. Hopefully, with Omicron seemingly being a weaker strain (super easy to trasmit, but seemingly less aggressive), we're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. As I've said before, if Covid had been a more consistent virus - i.e. nobody getting it and sailing through (possibly without even knowing they had it) vs healthy people flat out dying of it - then we would have seen far less bullshit swirling about from the Piers Corbyn and Fox News and CNN types of the world, and we would have probably not seen the politicisation of it either (especially in America, where politics has turned into a sickening war zone). One of the worst things about this virus, in a much wider context, is the sheer randomness of it. Interesting, too, how many stringent Anti-Vaxxer/Covid Denier types suddenly change their tune when they catch it (some of whom lying on their death bed). Shocking that it has to take that for some folks to "believe" that it exists!

[Neil]

Mentioned Trump merely as short hand for the issue of poor personal health (e.g. obesity) playing into the hands of Covid (i.e. more likely to suffer worse) - however, further to the point of how fucking random Covid is, even a sack of crap like Trump with his midnight cheeseburgers sailed through Covid. There's a bazillion people we could use in that criteria? Let's use Whoopi Goldberg as an example then? - Plus she's seemingly confused why she's even just got Covid (after being vaccinated) Hopefully, with Omicron seemingly being a weaker strain (super easy to trasmit, but seemingly less aggressive), we're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I was confused why this seems to be a common progress for diseases. But I suppose logically, the more contagious a virus is, the more it will spread, and the less noticable and less likely it is to take you out of circulation, the more it will spread... So it seems to make sense diseases can tend to evolve that way... Interesting, too, how many stringent Anti-Vaxxer/Covid Denier types suddenly change their tune when they catch it (some of whom lying on their death bed). Shocking that it has to take that for some folks to "believe" that it exists! Not really aware of any, plus the term "anti-vaxxer" (or "vaccine sceptic") is seemingly (mis)used against anyone even questioning vaccination policies. eg: Suspect I'd get declared an anti-vaxxer for not getting my daughter vaccinated. Suspect true anti-vaxxers (denniers) are as common and logical as flat earthers

[MinionZombie]

There's a bazillion people we could use in that criteria? Let's use Whoopi Goldberg as an example then? - Plus she's seemingly confused why she's even just got Covid (after being vaccinated) Not really aware of any, plus the term "anti-vaxxer" (or "vaccine sceptic") is seemingly (mis)used against anyone even questioning vaccination policies. eg: Suspect I'd get declared an anti-vaxxer for not getting my daughter vaccinated. 1) Did I trigger you by mentioning Trump in a derogatory light? 2) There's been numerous stories in recent weeks of deniers, sceptics, and so on who've ended up catching it and either pleading to get the vaccine when it's now certainly too late, or realising that 'hey, this thing is true after all' (as if several billion people were under some kind of coordinated delusion ). So many stories of people refusing the vaccine vehemently, who then suffered the consequences of playing Russian roulette too many times and it didn't work out for them (and, more devastatingly, for their families). I know which option I'd prefer out of a total pot luck (where death is an option), or getting a vaccine (even though it doesn't provide long term immunity) so my system is up-to-speed on the virus.

[Neil]

1) Did I trigger you by mentioning Trump in a derogatory light? No, I was just confused when you decided to mention him, out of no where, out of countless human beings, simply to use as an example for a negative assertion, which he's not particularly applicable for... It just came across as sort of bizarre, totally out of the blue, "orange man bad" because... reasons... Note: He lost over a stone last year BTW, so even less applicable to the point being made 2) There's been numerous stories in recent weeks of deniers, sceptics, and so on who've ended up catching it and either pleading to get the vaccine when it's now certainly too late, or realising that 'hey, this thing is true after all' (as if several billion people were under some kind of coordinated delusion ). So many stories of people refusing the vaccine vehemently, who then suffered the consequences of playing Russian roulette too many times and it didn't work out for them (and, more devastatingly, for their families). I know which option I'd prefer out of a total pot luck (where death is an option), or getting a vaccine (even though it doesn't provide long term immunity) so my system is up-to-speed on the virus. I'm sure there have, but again, not seen any... But then I don't tend to watch much MSM and I'm certainly not on Twatbook or the like anymore which I'm sure revel in such stuff... Without doubt I suspect there's folks who deny the disease, but I suspect it's a rare state of mind as things go. Ultimately there's niche idiots everywhere. So no doubt if you go looking for such cases across the planet, you can find plenty. I suspect what's more common is people who simply are not comfortable with the vaccine for well being reasons. ie: Look at the pros and cons and decide simply not to get it. And my fear is these people are then deemed anti-vaxers and deniers. And the notion that these folks are now being almost treated as second citizens in more and more places, in more and more ways, is just bizarre!? It's out of proportion and beyond logical reason? And again, the danger of simply pitching the vaccine as the only real logical choice for everyone, just doesn't seem right to me. And to then risk fixating on someone who was unlucky by choosing not get get the vaccine and then had a negative outcome, possibly celebrating it as some moral vistory? It's a dangerous positions because there are of course people grieving deaths caused by the vaccine. And people who have had serious issues due to the vaccine such as the loss of limb mobility/function. It's not common - or at least not published often - but it happens... We just need to be more proportional, sensible and measured about all this IMHO. Let people take the vaccine if they wish, and not if they don't. Because demonising people, pressuring people, firing people, is not productive or more importantly proportional to what we face; I defer to the doctor in that earlier video again and his assertion, who is now no doubt being demonised with people trying to get him cancelled and kicked out of his job. ps: As regards more and more treatments coming online to treat people's symptoms - which I'd say is just as important as vaccination - the latest one I heard of was, viagra

[shootemindehead]

I know, and some people even get it and never even find out they've had it at all, that's how little it does to them. It's like a biological Russian Roulette! You know, it's this that makes this thing such an RNG. I've known people who've died of Covid (not with, but OF). However, myself and the missus got it at Christmas and I swear, I've had worse hangovers.

[Neil]

Thought I'd look at the first government surveilliance report from this year and compare it with stats from a month or so back. Seems there's been a big increase in vaccinated people catching covid compared to the unvaccinated, such that if you're vaccinated it now seems you're more likely to be contracting it. So, if we look at any adult demographic now (18yr and below is the exception):- - More vaccinated people (proportionally) are testing positive for covid. - And we continue with more vaccinated people (proportionally) being hospitilised with covid. Note: Death/ICU remain more likely for unvaccinated. I wonder if this is anything to do with a potential window of the vaccine reducing immune system efficiency (so you're more suspectable to infection) combined with the effective window of the vaccine against CV being shorter than hoped (eg: Eight or so weeks). Note: In good ole Orwellian Australia, we now have mandates that the unvaccinated cannot leave home as they are "at great risk of catching covid" - Is this a fact based assertion? A proportional/sensible measure? Especially given what the data here in the UK is suggesting? - - - Updated - - - You know, it's this that makes this thing such an RNG. I've known people who've died of Covid (not with, but OF). However, myself and the missus got it at Christmas and I swear, I've had worse hangovers. I still suspect there's a chance myself and my partner had it early on. We both had three days of weird symptoms of being VERY tired, sore throat and head aches. One afternoon we were both so wiped out we had to go back to bed. Very unusual/odd! Of course could easily have been some other bug, but given the timing...

[MinionZombie]

No, I was just confused when you decided to mention him, out of no where, out of countless human beings, simply to use as an example for a negative assertion, which he's not particularly applicable for... It just came across as sort of bizarre, totally out of the blue, "orange man bad" because... reasons... Note: He lost over a stone last year BTW, so even less applicable to the point being made I'm sure there have, but again, not seen any... But then I don't tend to watch much MSM and I'm certainly not on Twatbook or the like anymore which I'm sure revel in such stuff... Without doubt I suspect there's folks who deny the disease, but I suspect it's a rare state of mind as things go. Ultimately there's niche idiots everywhere. So no doubt if you go looking for such cases across the planet, you can find plenty. 1) Mentioned because he's a world leader - so one of those most responsible for Covid response - but also because he's one of the most famous people on the planet, plucked from a hat (far more famous than your example of Whoopi Goldberg). His medical pre-Covid was suspiciously just under the line for obese ... I'm sure Presidents and their minions always tell the truth and never fudge statistics or edit details ... so he's the picture of not treating one's body well. The man's a fucking state, much like BoJo (who, it seems to me, is even fatter than he was before he caught Covid ... he looks a mess every time I see him shamble onto television). You seem to have an aversion to anyone criticising Trump. I don't despite him "because (no) reasons...", I despise him because of his actions and his attitude. The man's a fool who never should have seen the inside of the Oval Office, much like BoJo should never have become Prime Minister (much like Jeremy Corbyn never did - thankfully!). Trump's a bully, a charlatan, the worst of the worst used car salesmen with a raging ego and sense of self-importance that, to him, comes before the very foundations of democracy. He's a toddler (with the limited vocabulary to match) throwing a tantrum in the body of a man in his 70s. So, again, it's very easy to see why - world famous world leader who is in poor physical shape who caught Covid and sailed through it - illustrating the point of how random Covid can be (i.e. those who are quite overweight tend to suffer more than those who are not, but there are wild exceptions - such as Trump). BoJo is younger and (at least was) in better shape than Trump when he caught Covid, and he ended up having a pretty rough go of it. He lost a stone after he had Covid, did he not? I'm sure he's got a few more stone to spare, too. 2) I'm not even "looking" for those stories, though. I'm stumbling over them regularly across numerous news outlets while generally surfing the web - and I don't even look at the news much at all (be it TV, radio, newspaper, Internet)! I'm sure if I bothered "looking" for them I'd find many, many more.

[bassman]

I’m kind of at the point that I avoid all news about the Rona just because it feels like we’re spinning our wheels. Got the vaccines, I take the safety precautions, but other than that I’m just trying to live my life without worrying about it. It’s just going to be a regular thing from now on. Another version of the seasonal flu. Watch your weight, try to live a healthy lifestyle, and continue on.

[Neil]

You seem to have an aversion to anyone criticising Trump No... Just wary of people risk joining in with the media led hugely disproportionate Trump hate fest that's become a norm... [Not suggesting that's you] Indeed, I'd say I WAS one of those people. Then I started realising how hugely partisan and skewed resporting was on Trump, at timed to the extent of basically falsehoods and lies, so I've become very wary of such skewed bias.... Which unfortunately seems to still be ramping up and being fed with steroids with the aid of social media. So I'd not say I'm not really a Trump fan, and he's certainly his own worst enemy at times (he should have kept off Twitter, and his mouth shut more often), but his politicies tended to be pretty effective and sensible IMHO to the extend I'd suggest he was (policy wise) one of the better presidents, probably since Reagan. [IMHO] Anyhoo, back to CV... Appears in that clip from a day or so ago of Savid Javid talking to nurses/doctors, it was a ICU anaesthetist (Dr Steve James) that spoke up about how illogical the vaccination mandates are (for at least the NHS). Supposeldy Javid when disagreeing with Dr Steve James assertions said, "...government were taking advice 'from people who are actually experts'." - These being the experts who warned of 3000 Omicron deaths a month in the UK this January? ie: Another example of the alarmist doom mongering modelling the government are basing decisions on at times? It does appear at times these supposed experts are simply fixated on CV and not the cross benefit analysis of the huge negative outcomes of the measure they prescribe due to models which have repeatedly been proven to be questionable. And the measures coming out of all of this are just - and I don't use the word lightely again - cult like rather than reasoned. ie: So Dr Steve James who we were clapping and smacking saucepans for a year or so ago, we will be kicking out of his job now for... reasons...

[JDP]

1) Mentioned because he's a world leader - so one of those most responsible for Covid response - but also because he's one of the most famous people on the planet, plucked from a hat (far more famous than your example of Whoopi Goldberg). His medical pre-Covid was suspiciously just under the line for obese ... I'm sure Presidents and their minions always tell the truth and never fudge statistics or edit details ... so he's the picture of not treating one's body well. The man's a fucking state, much like BoJo (who, it seems to me, is even fatter than he was before he caught Covid ... he looks a mess every time I see him shamble onto television). You seem to have an aversion to anyone criticising Trump. I don't despite him "because (no) reasons...", I despise him because of his actions and his attitude. The man's a fool who never should have seen the inside of the Oval Office, much like BoJo should never have become Prime Minister (much like Jeremy Corbyn never did - thankfully!). Trump's a bully, a charlatan, the worst of the worst used car salesmen with a raging ego and sense of self-importance that, to him, comes before the very foundations of democracy. He's a toddler (with the limited vocabulary to match) throwing a tantrum in the body of a man in his 70s. So, again, it's very easy to see why - world famous world leader who is in poor physical shape who caught Covid and sailed through it - illustrating the point of how random Covid can be (i.e. those who are quite overweight tend to suffer more than those who are not, but there are wild exceptions - such as Trump). BoJo is younger and (at least was) in better shape than Trump when he caught Covid, and he ended up having a pretty rough go of it. He lost a stone after he had Covid, did he not? I'm sure he's got a few more stone to spare, too. 2) I'm not even "looking" for those stories, though. I'm stumbling over them regularly across numerous news outlets while generally surfing the web - and I don't even look at the news much at all (be it TV, radio, newspaper, Internet)! I'm sure if I bothered "looking" for them I'd find many, many more. Trump and his people acted very irresponsibly, especially during the earlier stages of the outbreak. Remember how they used to make "jokes" about the whole thing? "The Chinese Virus", "The Kung-Flu", etc.? They started changing their tune a bit when more and more Americans were getting infected (including eventually Trump himself) and overcrowding hospitals. By that time it was too late, though, the crap was already in full swing.

[Neil]

I’m kind of at the point that I avoid all news about the Rona just because it feels like we’re spinning our wheels. Got the vaccines, I take the safety precautions, but other than that I’m just trying to live my life without worrying about it. It’s just going to be a regular thing from now on. Another version of the seasonal flu. Watch your weight, try to live a healthy lifestyle, and continue on. Two years in, with the goal posts ever changing, more and more bizarre disproportionate mandates, many of which have proven not to be effective, some counter productive, but we still repeat them over and over, I'm long over it all. - - - Updated - - - Trump and his people acted very irresponsibly, especially during the earlier stages of the outbreak. Remember how they used to make "jokes" about the whole thing? "The Chinese Virus", "The Kung-Flu", etc.? They started changing their tune a bit when more and more Americans were getting infected (including eventually Trump himself) and overcrowding hospitals. By that time it was too late, though, the crap was already in full swing. Sort of agree... But two things here:- 1) There was some degree of not panicking the public at play I believe by over playing the significance of a yet unknown quantity/risk. 2) If you recall, when Trump was taking measures, some other key political figures then downplayed the virus, indeed with activity such as from some rather notable Democrats going for example to China Town and carry on business as normal. All with no social distance, hugging people, and as such suggesting the public carry on as if nothing was happening etc. ie: There's plenty of poor/questionable covid handling choices across the board to be highlighted if we choose to (especially with 20-20 hindsight).

[Neil]

Another NHS Doctor questioning the moral and logical reasoning behind the mandatory vaccination policies coming into play (in the NHS). Obviously fearful of what will happen to his career... I'm hoping the government walk back on these decisions (especially now Omicron is in the mix). Be a shame if it ends up with it going to a human rights court or something...

[Neil]

Actually no Neil, it's not OK. But it's your site, so do as you wish. Here you go then... I'll even start the thread for you - https://forum.homepageofthedead.com/...ad.php?t=24589 But let's try and keep this thread covid related though as much as possible...