TWD 6x01 "First Time Again" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[Neil]

Yeh, it would be a bit obvious if it was Father Wobbly or the son of the guy Rick killed. I agree... But I run out of ideas there, unless it is the Wolves?

[Buzzbomb]

The Alexandrian's presumably don't know that the plan to clear the quarry has had to be brought forward (ie. Rick & Co. were on a dry run when the trailer gave way)... so perhaps Deanna or any of the townsfolk are just raising the alarm to get Rick & Co to come back to town - which they might do if the town was under attack by the wolves? I guess everyone spotted Rick saying the same lines Morgan said to him in the very first show... but did Rick repeat something Shane once said about not being cut-out for the world as it is now & therefore pretty much dead already?

[Neil]

The Alexandrian's presumably don't know that the plan to clear the quarry has had to be brought forward (ie. Rick & Co. were on a dry run when the trailer gave way)... so perhaps Deanna or any of the townsfolk are just raising the alarm to get Rick & Co to come back to town - which they might do if the town was under attack by the wolves? I guess everyone spotted Rick saying the same lines Morgan said to him in the very first show... but did Rick repeat something Shane once said about not being cut-out for the world as it is now & therefore pretty much dead already? They had walkie talkies (so could talk to Alexandria)? And why not 2-3 cars in the front... using their horns to keep the zombies' attention?

[Moon Knight]

Not to get off topic, but anyone else think Enid is somehow connected to the Wolves? Maybe she left that warning note in the car Daryl and Aaron were in?

[JDP]

I think in that scenario you'd have to soak 'em and light 'em up as quickly as possible - otherwise the fluid would soak into the ground and not work as well (or at all?). So, I definitely like the idea of turps etc - but you could see about pinching a Fire Truck and pour all the flammable junk into the tank and hose the walkers down, and then set them on fire as they're still dripping wet. In an ideal apocalypse you could do something like that, but as Rick thought correctly - the quarry was weak with rain, so that truck perched on the edge was going to come down sooner or later. However, if that part of the quarry had been reinforced before the apocalypse then they would have had the time. Particularly if they backed up another vehicle to block off the tiny gaps between the truck trailers that were letting out a few stragglers. To be sure, it wouldn't be without risks, but if the area had been more secure it's something they could have done. Unfortunately time, nor quarry stability, wasn't on their side. They seemed to have had enough time to plan the whole thing and build the walls for the route they wanted to lead the zombies through, so they probably would have had enough time to gather plenty of flammables instead. If you don't have a fire truck around to use your proposition of spraying the flammables, and the ground of the quarry is very absorbent and you are afraid that the flammable liquids will be absorbed too fast before you can light them on fire, then you could apply of couple of solutions: 1- Thicken the flammable liquids with other flammable things that are more viscous, like oils (hardware stores have lots of lindseed oil), so that they are not absorbed as fast 2- Dampen the ground first by pouring water. Flammable liquids like petroleum hydrocarbons and essential oils like turpentine are lighter than water and do not mix with it, so that would slow down the rate of absorption Another method of delivery of the flammable liquids, in case you don't have a fire truck around, and don't want to pour them down the quarry either, would be to gather enough empty glass or ceramic containers, or even rubber balloons, all of which I would think there would be plenty of laying around, fill them with the flammables and start tossing them down the quarry so that they smash and spray the contents around. Once you have soaked the area with flammables (including the zombies) then throw in a couple of lit molotov cocktails.

[Buzzbomb]

They had walkie talkies (so could talk to Alexandria)? And why not 2-3 cars in the front... using their horns to keep the zombies' attention? They had 3x walkies at least - but as Rick told Morgan to relay the news of Carter's demise to Alexandria, I'm guessing all the walkies they did have were out in the field. I had also originally thought that Alexandria would have been out of range - but I was wrong there - Deanna refers to the site as being only a few miles out & Ron was pretty much able to make it on foot to the quarry in roughly the same time as Rick & Morgan did in the car... Yeah - I'd wondered too why they didn't have a sound system in the cars - like Merle so memorably did (or Aidan/Eugene did in the van)... I guess it wouldn't have sat nicely with the soundtrack. The line I thought Rick recycled from Shane was on the porch when talking about Carter with Morgan:-"Somebody like that, they're gonna die no matter what"? Did Shane say that?? Also - just an observation - setting those 1000x zombies 20 miles out on the route north.... that doesn't seem like a terribly good plan. It could easily wipe out other settlements & just as easily they could change direction at some point in the future and wind up biting Alexandria in the arse. Could Nicholas or the 3x people Deanna exiled be behind the airhorn?

[Doc]

I agree... But I run out of ideas there, unless it is the Wolves? The Wolves certainly didn't seem above letting Walkers do their dirty work so, it's a possibility. In fact, I'm rather bother they didn't even mention them. Shouldn't they be careful of a group of hostiles that might've been nearby?

[sandrock74]

I don't think burning the zombies in the quarry is as easy as it seems everyone thinks. For one, you'd need a LOT of flammable liquid, which is far better to conserve for other purposes and you'd get the zombies all riled up from them seeing people and hearing the noise that would inevitably be made. The trucks wouldn't have been able to hold back all those zombies pushing in one direction to get at their perceived food. Then, once the zombies are lit on fire, you'd have to wait for them to actually burn/melt enough to become dead (again). They can still walk around and come after you while they are roasting. Like the old joke says, "What's worse than being chased by zombies? Being chased by zombies on fire". Can you imagine if a bunch of zombies on fire spread out into the woods?? I think the plan they had wasn't bad considering their options, people involved and tools on hand. The old Pied Piper routine worked! It was only the horn blowing (which, I think we all know isn't accidental) that ruined things. Once Daryl and Sasha/Abraham led the zombies to the 20 mile point - or wherever they determined - they could easily race off into the distance and circle around far enough away out of sight and earshot of the undead horde. Not being too smart, the horde would just keep going "that way" westward. The only bad point I can find with the plan is that you're most likely making this super mega horde someone else's problem at some later point. Chances are you're essentially condemning people to a gory demise. I would hate to have that hanging over my head like the proverbial sword of Damocles, but in the world of TWD, you don't have the luxury of thinking too far ahead, just react to the immediate threats. Of course, for all Rick and crew know, there could be another zombie horde coming at them from the north or south because of similar actions by some other group of survivors!

[JDP]

I don't think burning the zombies in the quarry is as easy as it seems everyone thinks. For one, you'd need a LOT of flammable liquid, which is far better to conserve for other purposes and you'd get the zombies all riled up from them seeing people and hearing the noise that would inevitably be made. The trucks wouldn't have been able to hold back all those zombies pushing in one direction to get at their perceived food. Then, once the zombies are lit on fire, you'd have to wait for them to actually burn/melt enough to become dead (again). They can still walk around and come after you while they are roasting. Like the old joke says, "What's worse than being chased by zombies? Being chased by zombies on fire". Can you imagine if a bunch of zombies on fire spread out into the woods?? I think the plan they had wasn't bad considering their options, people involved and tools on hand. The old Pied Piper routine worked! It was only the horn blowing (which, I think we all know isn't accidental) that ruined things. Once Daryl and Sasha/Abraham led the zombies to the 20 mile point - or wherever they determined - they could easily race off into the distance and circle around far enough away out of sight and earshot of the undead horde. Not being too smart, the horde would just keep going "that way" westward. The only bad point I can find with the plan is that you're most likely making this super mega horde someone else's problem at some later point. Chances are you're essentially condemning people to a gory demise. I would hate to have that hanging over my head like the proverbial sword of Damocles, but in the world of TWD, you don't have the luxury of thinking too far ahead, just react to the immediate threats. Of course, for all Rick and crew know, there could be another zombie horde coming at them from the north or south because of similar actions by some other group of survivors! There's so many things that can go wrong trying to keep such a large amount of zombies on the right path, that any other solution seems less risky. If there are many hardware stores (think all the Home Depots, Lowes, Ace/Sears Hardwares, etc.) around that area there would not seem to be too much trouble finding flammable liquids. Remember that we are not talking about gasoline or kerosene or diesel, which can be used for many other purposes, but flammable liquids that most people would not really have much of an interest in looting, things like paint/varnish thinners/removers. There should be plenty of the stuff around since few people would have a use for such things anymore, survivors would be busy trying to find essential supplies and would not care about carrying non-essential stuff like this. Another possible solution, and also less risky than trying to make a horde of zombies follow you for miles: since this happens to be a quarry, there should be a large amount of explosives around. If they are stored outside of the area where the zombies are confined, and if you can gain access to this storage place (it will likely be locked down), then you can blast the zombies to smithereens. If the workers were using dynamite-like explosives, just toss the full crates down the quarry (explosives used for commercial blasting operations are quite insensitive to shock, it takes a blasting cap/detonator to set them off, so the shock from falling down the quarry won't set them off) and finally using ropes lower the last crate with a blasting cap placed inside one of the sticks of dynamite and a fuse long enough for you to get out in time before the whole thing goes off. If they were using ANFO type explosives just drop the sacks down the quarry and then lower the last sack with a detonator inside and a long fuse. Or if they were using electric detonators (which is more likely in this day and age) then wire the last crate/sack with the electric detonator inside, lower it down the quarry and then go to a safe distance and set it off with an electric current via the wires. Whatever few zombies manage to survive the blast, falling rocks and landslides you can take care of one by one to finish the job.

[DayoftheZ]

The Wolves certainly didn't seem above letting Walkers do their dirty work so, it's a possibility. In fact, I'm rather bother they didn't even mention them. Shouldn't they be careful of a group of hostiles that might've been nearby? Rick and Daryl did very briefly mention them in one of the black and white scenes. They were discussing both Morgan’s and Daryl’s run ins with the men with W etched on their foreheads, “like the walker outside” I kind of disagree with the explosives or walker fire thing, it would be equally if not more risky than talking the Walkers for ……… well a walk. Plus you have the addition risk of a smoke signal or noise attracting more walkers or worse still the real threat which is the living. What I don’t understand is why team Rick didn’t make a plan to try and split the pack up a little bit more to spread the risk as much as possible. The walkers kept trying to split up anyway so why not take them to a cross roads of some kind on the street and split them. I know that would take more man power but you have plenty of capable people back at the safe zone twiddling their thumbs. Taking this route would have diluted the impact that the alarm is so obviously going to have.

[JDP]

I kind of disagree with the explosives or walker fire thing, it would be equally if not more risky than talking the Walkers for ……… well a walk. Plus you have the addition risk of a smoke signal or noise attracting more walkers or worse still the real threat which is the living. More things can go wrong if you tried to make them follow you for miles. For example, your vehicle could break down, you could run into another group of zombies straight ahead (making you the "meat" in this zombie sandwich), or run into another group of survivors and all hell would break loose when they see an army of zombies coming their way (you would be caught right in the middle of it), some of the zombies could get distracted by other things and start walking in different directions, etc. A lot of unpredictable stuff could happen in this scenario. But attempting to burn or blast the zombies would not be as risky. As long as they are confined inside the quarry it is them who are at a disadvantage. You can freely move around them without them being able to get you, while you can keep bombarding them with flammables and/or explosives from on top, they are screwed! As for other zombies hearing the noise and shuffling their way to the quarry, it would no longer matter much because after you have eliminated the ones that are trapped you can move the trucks, that way they won't be able to get trapped in the quarry anymore. The problem is that they have been accumulating for a long time down there, so that's what you want to avoid from happening again. What I don’t understand is why team Rick didn’t make a plan to try and split the pack up a little bit more to spread the risk as much as possible. The walkers kept trying to split up anyway so why not take them to a cross roads of some kind on the street and split them. I know that would take more man power but you have plenty of capable people back at the safe zone twiddling their thumbs. Taking this route would have diluted the impact that the alarm is so obviously going to have. Because they could end up heading to Alexandria again, which is what they are trying to avoid. They want to take them to a place where the zombies likely won't find their way back.

[MinionZombie]

Could Nicholas or the 3x people Deanna exiled be behind the airhorn? Nicholas hasn't been exiled, but yeah, that could be a possibility - Alexandrian exiles. Hadn't thought of that. On another topic, yeah, I think Enid is somehow connected to The Wolves ... or at the very least an exile, who themselves could be linked up with The Wolves. Murky things going on in them thar woods...

[Buzzbomb]

Before the lorry/trailer gave way, they had another option to deal with the quarry walkers... ie. if they'd used some of their metal walling expertise they could have created a route for the walkers to follow - which would have lead them back over the cliff edge - the fall would have been enough to incapacitate them with broken bones/smashed skulls.... or created a controlable flow of walkers which could be terminated on a production line type scale. It seems to me that the quarry is an excellent walker trap and an added line of defence for Alexandria - like the walker pits we've seen in previous series' but on obviously a much grander scale. Assuming that things don't go completely tits up in the next few episodes, they'd do well to make clearing the quarry a regular walker chore. Nice to see Enid & Carl holding hands on the roof... playing with a lighter at night probably not such a good idea though, given the wolves may be out there?

[slayerized]

Before the lorry/trailer gave way, they had another option to deal with the quarry walkers... ie. if they'd used some of their metal walling expertise they could have created a route for the walkers to follow - which would have lead them back over the cliff edge - the fall would have been enough to incapacitate them with broken bones/smashed skulls.... or created a controlable flow of walkers which could be terminated on a production line type scale. It seems to me that the quarry is an excellent walker trap and an added line of defence for Alexandria - like the walker pits we've seen in previous series' but on obviously a much grander scale. Assuming that things don't go completely tits up in the next few episodes, they'd do well to make clearing the quarry a regular walker chore. Nice to see Enid & Carl holding hands on the roof... playing with a lighter at night probably not such a good idea though, given the wolves may be out there? They had plenty of time to line up vehicles and build fences to corral the walkers on their path out of town...they should have focused on blocking them in the quarry permanently...they could have moved dozens of vehicles, sandbags etc in to fortify the 2 trucks at the bottom of the quarry -- make it an impassable barrier and then the road leading out the top - they should have just collapsed it ahead of the trucks so that any walkers that got past the trucks would just fall back into the quarry...

[facestabber]

Not to get off topic, but anyone else think Enid is somehow connected to the Wolves? Maybe she left that warning note in the car Daryl and Aaron were in? I haven't trusted Enid since she was introduced. She is suspect. My first thought was that she is connected to the Wolves. But what are the wolves waiting for? And the show made it a point to show the wolves discovering the photos of Alexandria. Not that we saw their reaction but I read it as Alexandria was new to them. I could be wrong though. Kudos Buzzbomb on your thoughts on the quarry. Im in the keep em there camp. The metal walls could have been better built to funnel them back down. My first thought was using some of that farm equip to excavate ditches beyond the semi trailer barriers which would force them back down the pit. In the end, blocking their exit seems far easier than that march. Too many things can go wrong. The horn thing is bothering me. The writers really like messing with us.