Cameron bashing

[shootemindehead]

I dont hate it, but as ive gotten older i can see how a lot of it is just masturbatory fanservice riffing of the last one rather than being a proper sequel- and when you think about it the villain was pretty wasted. I mean a liquid metal terminator and you never have it going through pipes or through cracks in floorboards or something? hes meant to be liquid metal but in the film is used more like liquid putty. great movie monster, but wasted potential looking back. I thought the idea of a liquid robot was just bloody stupid. Used just to showcase the "advances" in CGI from 'The Abyss'. At least Arnie's endo-skeleton machine made some sense. The acting is pretty weak too. I just want kill Furlong (I wouldn't care about the future of mankind), Linda Hamilton just hasn't got the chops to carry off her duties convincingly and Arnie duffs it up too, by trying to be the good guy, super-hero. I actually just can't watch it anymore. -- -------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ---------- take out the machines and The Terminator is a time-travelling love story Well, not really. Reece goes back in time to pork his faction leaders mum, so he can exist. It's hardly a love story. Yet, it's a damn sight more convincing than the "love story" presented in 'Titanic'.

[Mike70]

^^ This! And then keep in mind he not only directed, but wrote them too! funny thing i learned last night when i was looking over Cameron's resume: i had no idea that he had been involved in the writing of Rambo II. you truly do learn something new everyday. i'm not trying to pull the age trip here but i'm old enough (as many of you are) to have seen "the abyss" when it was originally released on the big screen. I think a lot of people forget just how ahead of its time it was and how mind blowing some of the stuff in that movie was in 1989.

[shootemindehead]

I'm near enough to your age and remember it too. My friends were all over it, but I recall being quite nonplussed about it. The effects were the talking point, but they just didn't grab me too solidly. I'll have to give the special edition a spin though. It might change my opinion on it. Thought Michael Biehn was going to go on and have a brilliant career though. Never really happened for him, even though he's been in tons of stuff.

[Neil]

funny thing i learned last night when i was looking over Cameron's resume: i had no idea that he had been involved in the writing of Rambo II. you truly do learn something new everyday. i'm not trying to pull the age trip here but i'm old enough (as many of you are) to have seen "the abyss" when it was originally released on the big screen. I think a lot of people forget just how ahead of its time it was and how mind blowing some of the stuff in that movie was in 1989. Shame the cuts for the cinema release ruined the overall strory. The directors version is the one to see! -- -------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 AM ---------- Linda Hamilton just hasn't got the chops to carry off her duties convincingly and Arnie duffs it up too, by trying to be the good guy, super-hero. Didn't you see her exercising in her room? And the scenes where she escaped and was attacking the guards were brutal!

[MinionZombie]

Been watching the deleted scenes on YouTube recently and funnily enough I love that deleted fight scene, would have been very odd when in place in the film but simply watching the dining room slowly fill up and the background ship noises make it a very effective scene. I'd agree, in isolation that scene is a good watch, but yeah ... in the movie it would have been daft. That's often the case with deleted scenes, you find nice little parts to the scenes, but not the entire scene itself, and certainly not within the context of the entire movie. Although many times on DVDs/BRs, you find the deleted scenes to be entirely perfunctory anyway, but now and then you find some genuinely spiffing deleted scenes - and even the odd one you wish had stayed in the flick. I'll have to give the special edition a spin though. It might change my opinion on it. Thought Michael Biehn was going to go on and have a brilliant career though. Never really happened for him, even though he's been in tons of stuff. I'm with Neil - the director's cut is the way to see The Abyss. I saw it was on Film4 t'other night and it was the theatrical version, so I noticed a great big chunk missing at the end   where Ed Harris converses with the aliens who bring up images of nuclear war etc, in a way that's like 'why should mankind be allowed to continue to exist', IIRC ... whereas in the theatrical version they just essentially go 'aww, you still love your estranged wife, have a cookie and let's rise up together'

[Neil]

I'm with Neil - the director's cut is the way to see The Abyss. I saw it was on Film4 t'other night and it was the theatrical version, so I noticed a great big chunk missing at the end   where Ed Harris converses with the aliens who bring up images of nuclear war etc, in a way that's like 'why should mankind be allowed to continue to exist', IIRC ... whereas in the theatrical version they just essentially go 'aww, you still love your estranged wife, have a cookie and let's rise up together' And of course the theatrical release misses out...   the tidal wave as well!

[EvilNed]

I like most of his films, but he really dropped the ball with Avatar. That was an awful film. Everything about it was shit. For all the millions pumped into it, the CGI still looked like CGI and fake. Also, there was way too much of it. Also, the design of the entire world was dull and boring and unimaginative. Titanic was his last good film... And also his second to last film overall.

[Neil]

he really dropped the ball with Avatar. That was an awful film. Everything about it was shit. "Everything about it was shit" - Doesn't come across as particularly fair and considered view does it now!

[EvilNed]

I'm not a robot with objective views. I'm a human with subjective opinions. Avatar was shit and I didn't enjoy it, what do you want me to say? That the Na'vi didn't strike me as incredibly clichéed versions of space-native americans? That the space-rhino didn't just look like a rhino - but in space? That I thought the name "unobtanium" was clever, even though it wasn't? That the villains weren't cardboard cut outs and 1 dimensional with no belieavable motivation behind some of their more outrageous actions? That the entire f*cking film didn't remind of anything but a live-action remake of FernGully - The Last Rainforest? In fact, I take that back. I'm pretty sure I am fair and considering when I say that Avatar is shit.

[Neil]

I'm a human with subjective opinions. Well maybe I'm confused by your reference point? "shit" is something I'd reserve for what seems irredeemably poor. Something that shows no merit at all. And I wouldn't use it just because I didn't like a film, because there's plenty of film I didn't enjoy (at all), but I can see there's quality work involved in there such that I wouldn't dream of levelling such a term as "shit" towards it. To me, using a description as negative as "shit" towards Avatar seems nothing short of unfair IMHO. While I find the plot a little simpler than I'd like, and some of the dialogue/acting it a touch wooden/stilted at times, there's enough in the film for me to happily watch it repeatedly. If nothing else, a couple of key scenes are beautiful and a wonder to watch! Certainly something I wouldn't expect from "shit"! What I do seem to notice about "Avatar" and "Titanic" is that some people who don't enjoy them seemingly almost feel compelled to bounce back all the harder because of their huge success, appearing incredibly over judgemental and unfair about them. At worst they must be average affairs, yet we see people implying they're diabolically bad and paramount to insults to the silver screen. Bizarre! In short I don't understand why people can't be fair towards what are perfectly well produced pieces of cinema even if they don't enjoy them much. And "shit" to me is a long way away from fair.

[Christopher Jon]

What I do seem to notice about "Avatar" and "Titanic" is that some people who don't enjoy them seemingly almost feel compelled to bounce back all the harder because of their huge success, appearing incredibly over judgemental and unfair about them. At worst they must be average affairs, yet we see people implying they're diabolically bad and paramount to insults to the silver screen. Bizarre! +1 for truth. Titanic and Avatar aren't for everybody but there are far more people who loved those films than haters. Basement trolls. Gotta piss on everything. Continue being unhappy with your life.

[MinionZombie]

^^^ Well said Neil.

[shootemindehead]

What I do seem to notice about "Avatar" and "Titanic" is that some people who don't enjoy them seemingly almost feel compelled to bounce back all the harder because of their huge success, appearing incredibly over judgemental and unfair about them. At worst they must be average affairs, yet we see people implying they're diabolically bad and paramount to insults to the silver screen. Bizarre! The obvious alternative to this though Neil, is that just some people wil severely underjudge a film because of its huge success. While I do think that 'Titanic' was a generally awful movie, at least for its first half, it has nothing whatsoever to do with its success. It was the terribly cliched characters (Bliiy Zane, I mean really?), the unbelivably turgid dialogue and the incredibly unconvincing central "love story" plot. It's only in the second half, when the film gets going and shows clearly that the insipid events of the first half need never have happened. As for 'Avatar', I only saw it a few months ago for the first time and was left nothing really, at the end. I doubt that I will ever watch it again, unlike teh second half of 'Titanic', I must say. Regardless of a given films popularity or success, some films really are undeserving of their praise.

[Mike70]

While I do think that 'Titanic' was a generally awful movie, at least for its first half, it has nothing whatsoever to do with its success. It was the terribly cliched characters (Bliiy Zane, I mean really?), the unbelivably turgid dialogue and the incredibly unconvincing central "love story" plot. It's only in the second half, when the film gets going and shows clearly that the insipid events of the first half need never have happened. ^^^ this, a thousand times, this. that is pretty much my take on "Titanic" as well. the first half is a boring exercise in the world of cliche ridden romance stories. i mean, how many frikkin' "boy from wrong side of tracks meets rich girl and they fall in love" movies must we endure. that is the single most overused plot in the entire history of film and no matter how good or bad the acting, directing, and script are, i find the entire idea boring as all hell. I remember sitting there with my girlfriend at the time (how many men had to endure this film simply for that reason alone, i wonder?) thinking "when is this fooking ship going hit the iceberg because i am about to (in the words of Lou) flip my shit." the second half of "Titanic" is so superior to the first half that it is not even funny. I've only seen "Avatar" once and i enjoyed it, mostly because of the incredible visual effects and the convincing world that they created. the story was rather of a bore and completely ripped off from "call me joe" by poul anderson. I said before that cameron gets a pass because of his earlier work but he isn't above rational criticism.

[Sammich]

I thought Avatar was more like Dances with Wolves.