TWD 2x03 "Save The Last One" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Thorn]

Yep, I can see normally decent, honest people doing something like that, how you'd cope with any guilt after the fact is another conversation for another day I suppose. But I honestly think that once your own survival is hanging in the balance that even the most moral folks will choose to live at the cost of others. Like you, I'm not defending Shane, I am however putting myself in his shoes and asking myself if it is possible that I could do such a terrible thing...I can't put my hand on my heart and say I wouldn't. Oh, and I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but Shane took Ricks Python off Otis didn't he? Some 'splainin' is going to be needed to justify it being back at the farm if it is discovered. I don't know, how do you explain people diving on grenades to save others? People who have a job like firemen who rush into a fire while everyone else is rushing out? People amaze me all the time with their courage. I can understand people giving their lives to save loved ones is different, or saving brothers in arms... but people give their lives for strangers all the time. Heroes do what the common man can not or is not willing to do. I would love to say I would give my life to save a brother in arms, but how can you? I am not in that situation I will never truly know. Shane COULD have handed Otis the bags and run the zombies off, like Otis did for him (or he could have tried). He could have given his life to save Otis by offering himself up as a meal. He did not. He took another man's life to save his own. Was it the best option? Maybe Shane is more fit, and likely had the best chance to get to the truck... but we know one thing for sure. It was the best option for Shane.

[Ragnarr]

Would be interesting if Sofia was hiding nearby and saw what Shane did... Dude, I wish you were one of the writers for TWD. Sofia actually seeing what Shane did to Otis, or just the thought in Shane's head of that possibility would be an awesome plot development. Cudos!

[Thorn]

Dude, I wish you were one of the writers for TWD. Sofia actually seeing what Shane did to Otis, or just the thought in Shane's head of that possibility would be an awesome plot development. Cudos! Agreed! That and the mention of the gun and having to explain it, watching that clip I can see that coming up, he said Otis told him he was going to cover him and that begs the question... "with what"? They were down to Pistols, Shane just said so. So if they were down to pistols, what was Otis covering him with if Shane has the gun. This is where you guys on this site are brilliant in my mind and I enjoy posting here (for years) people know good stories, write good stories, and see things others might not. Now Shane could just claim it was a sacrifice he slipped the gun in his bag or some such thing but when confronted, he would have to be really slick to bust that lie out on the spot with no sign that he is lying.

[Ragnarr]

I don't know, how do you explain people diving on grenades to save others? People who have a job like firemen who rush into a fire while everyone else is rushing out? People amaze me all the time with their courage. I can understand people giving their lives to save loved ones is different, or saving brothers in arms... but people give their lives for strangers all the time. Heroes do what the common man can not or is not willing to do. I would love to say I would give my life to save a brother in arms, but how can you? I am not in that situation I will never truly know. Back in 1985, I was in that type of situation. There was a car accident right in front of the place I was working. The driver of one of the vehicles (a jeep) fell out of the driver's side onto his back and the jeep rolled backwards pinning his right arm. Meanwhile, gasoline was spilling out of his jeep and he was right in the middle of the pool of it screaming. I ran up to the edge of the spill also noticing that there was smoke coming from the engine of the jeep. I hesitated for a moment thinking I needed to free this guy but if I did, the guy, his jeep and myself might all burn in a flash. I only hesitated a second or two, then thought, "aw fuck it... I'm not going to see someone burn to death right in front of me." I began trying to roll the jeep off the guy's arm but wasn't quite strong enough. Then some old dude (must have been like 70 years old) who was hobbling slowly up the street with his cane, suddenly dropped his cane, came running like a 30 year old to where I was and helped me push the jeep off the guy's arm. The jeep never did catch fire and the guy turned out to be okay, but it was that weird "I might die if I try to save this guy but fuck it anyway" feeling that I'll never forget.

[Thorn]

Back in 1985, I was in that type of situation. There was a car accident right in front of the place I was working. The driver of one of the vehicles (a jeep) fell out of the driver's side onto his back and the jeep rolled backwards pinning his right arm. Meanwhile, gasoline was spilling out of his jeep and he was right in the middle of the pool of it screaming. I ran up to the edge of the spill also noticing that there was smoke coming from the engine of the jeep. I hesitated for a moment thinking I needed to free this guy but if I did, the guy, his jeep and myself might all burn in a flash. I only hesitated a second or two, then thought, "aw fuck it... I'm not going to see someone burn to death right in front of me." I began trying to roll the jeep off the guy's arm but wasn't quite strong enough. Then some old dude (must have been like 70 years old) who was hobbling slowly up the street with his cane, suddenly dropped his cane and came running like a 30 year old to help me push the jeep off the guy's arm. The jeep never did catch fire and the guy turned out to be okay, but it was that weird "I might die if I try to save this guy but fuck it anyway" feeling that I'll never forget. Great story, and exactly how I feel in those situations, awesome that you took a chance to do the right thing. I always think that in a dead situation if my family (my daughter) was in danger I would never risk her life for anyone else, but I like to think I would risk mine to do right... it was how I was raised , I imagine that is a hard thing to change. Or at least accept "The new world, new rules... mean if you are true to yourself, and who you are then you could die" the car situation everyday all day. Hard.

[acealive1]

now why the FUCK did i get the sneaking suspicion when the episode started in the bathroom that shane either left otis or killed him? geez.......he's literally crazy now

[Ragnarr]

I think each person has both a hero and an idiot living inside them at the same time, and it's usually one or the other that kills us at some point. To go back on topic, Shane made a cold but logical decision. I think we can all agree that it wasn't the only decision possible, but then again, we ARE talking about Shane here.

[acealive1]

watching next week's preview, dale's look at the funeral seems to make you think he listens alot more than he says and that shane's story doesnt make sense the first two times he told it. they could have both had bad leg injuries and gotten out of there.......all they had to do was look inside one of the army vehicles for a single grenade which woulda bought them enough time to escape

[bassman]

To go back on topic, Shane made a cold but logical decision. I think we can all agree that it wasn't the only decision possible, but then again, we ARE talking about Shane here. Logical is too strong of a word, imo. While I can kinda see WHY Shane shot Otis in the grand scheme of things, there's no excuse for HOW he did it. Leaving Otis to suffer the pain of being eaten alive bit-by-bit is just a soulless move. At least put a round in the man's head so he goes out with a quick flash of light rather than a long, painful ordeal. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies and Otis was a tubby ol' sweetheart.

[kidgloves]

You could make the argument that by killing Otis Shane saved Carl and himself but when your in that amount of immediate danger i find it hard to believe that was his motive. He was trying to save his own ass. Its like Andrea trying to put the gun back together. She wasn't thinking about the noise that gunfire would make. She needed a weapon in a very short time and, with nothing else available, the gun was her only option.

[Mr. Clean]

I don't think I could ever do what Shane did to Otis. I understand that Otis volunteered to help the child because he was the one who shot the kid but accidents happen. I could have lived with not helping with the equipment mission if I had shot the child accidently. If Otis had not volunteered, he would still be alive. Also, The equipment mission was fubar to begin with...They should have had more people and some sort of diversion. No spare of the moment type setup. I'm still struggling with my thoughts on Shane....It's such an awful thing to do.

[Ragnarr]

Logical is too strong of a word, imo. While I can kinda see WHY Shane shot Otis in the grand scheme of things, there's no excuse for HOW he did it. Leaving Otis to suffer the pain of being eaten alive bit-by-bit is just a soulless move. At least put a round in the man's head so he goes out with a quick flash of light rather than a long, painful ordeal. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies and Otis was a tubby ol' sweetheart. Maybe (just guessing) Shane decided that Otis needed to be thrashing about in order for his "escape plan" to work. -- -------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 PM ---------- watching next week's preview, dale's look at the funeral seems to make you think he listens alot more than he says and that shane's story doesnt make sense the first two times he told it. they could have both had bad leg injuries and gotten out of there.......all they had to do was look inside one of the army vehicles for a single grenade which woulda bought them enough time to escape Good point Ace. Dale remembers seeing Shane aim his gun at Rick as if about to pull the trigger (in season 1). If so, Dale may already be suspicious of Shane's intent, and now if the Otis story is full of inconsistancies, I can see Dale figuring out the math that Shane is a douche.

[blind2d]

I just saw this episode today and wow... I used to hate Shane, now I LOATHE him. Seriously, that's not what you do! I don't think even Rhodes would pull that shit... Eh, maybe though. Anyway yeah... I don't like him. Great episode though. More Glenn is always good.

[Moon Knight]

Would Rick shoot Otis to save Carl if he was in Shane's shoes? Hard decisions are to be made now and we already know that Shane is strong enough to make them, no matter how terrible the actions may be. That's just the world they live in now. Whether he did it for Carl or his own ass doesn't really matter. Otis was sacrificed and it was fucked up.

[Ragnarr]

Would Rick shoot Otis to save Carl if he was in Shane's shoes? Hard decisions are to be made now and we already know that Shane is strong enough to make them, no matter how terrible the actions may be. That's just the world they live in now. Whether he did it for Carl or his own ass doesn't really matter. Otis was sacrificed and it was fucked up. Agreed. Although my impression of Rick is that he'd never "pull a Shane" in order to save anyone (including his son). He seems to be a man of deep moral character.