TWD 3x09 "The Suicide King" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Zombie Snack]

I still love this show, really I am grateful for the chance to watch a show like the walking dead. I will admit the show is not perfect, but will there ever be "The perfect zombie series"...I can't say. This series is awesome and spot on 80-85 percent of the time. Maybe that is why at least to me anyways when it misses a spot or is off it stands out so much or seems so cheesy. Most of the acting/casting has been great, but there are exceptions, and most of the cheesy bits are small and maybe not really noticed or picked up on by the casual viewer, but for those like us who thrive on this type of show, it is like finger nails screeching along a chalk board. Herschel's shotgun that holds 50 shells, the awesome headshots while hanging out a car window or while on the run, The zombie that bit Herschel..come on that was lame...and the digging of 3 graves when there was only 1 half eaten body...wtf? These are just some of the things that makes me wonder, how do they get so much right, and then let things like this slip thru. My biggest fear is with the growing popularity of this show...and with it becoming more "mainstream" that we will see more of a dumbing down of the series, to appease to more of the mainstream, brain dead, television viewers. I hope not.

[AcesandEights]

A decent episode, but a bit toothless and shallowly thought out, perhaps. And I say this having wanted and expected a reset episode that would be setting the stage for the chills, drama and action down the line on the last half of this season. Nothing too bad, in my opinion, just this feeling that the writers were casting about a bit too much.

[facestabber]

Self admitted TWD fanboy here. But I agree with alot of what KRISVDS has mentioned. Though to KRIS, regarding Merle and Daryl, yes a little less dramatic than I expected but hang on a bit because I think we will get that in a future episode. The scenes and people of Woodbury are very irritating. Andrea's speech.....well I laughed and in no way does that motivate me. As cheesy as Independence Day was Bill Pullman's speech made me want to fight for "Our Independence Day". Andrea's? Not even close. And her character irritates me. The pathetic fight she put up for Daryl at the arena was well pathetic. She shot the man in the head and all he said to her was, no problem you were trying to protect the group. And now she is aware of Glen and Maggie being held captive, a pet zombie daughter and fish tanks full of heads!!! She is caught up to speed enough with the audience that the argument about her ignorance is no longer holding water. She is a certified idiot. In the span of two episodes I am growing tired of Glen's evolution. I liked Glen alot. But turning him into this 'do everything in the name of love' is just irritating. Maggie is hot, no argument, but just tone it down a tad already. He could barely walk out of Woodbury and now he's upset Maggie had to take the fight to help save Daryl. Daryl deserved their best effort, including Maggies, which I believe she whole heartedly agreed with. Anyway the positives of this show far outweigh the nitpicking. I actually feel guilty complaining at all because this is the greatest tv show in the history of my world. Also I heard this episode broke records so congrats.

[shootemindehead]

What a disappointment! This series has been on the verge of becoming a messy, guilty pleasure but this new episode has really put some nails in the coffin. First: Daryl: the moment where he had to choose between his brother or the ricktatorship was anything but tense or dramatic. It felt odd, blunt even. I imagined a tense, dramatic life or death situation, not talking heads by the side of the road? And why complain about his leaving? Merle is his brother after all and it's pretty obvious taking the guy back to the prison is a no go? Andrea. That little speech in woodbury was b movie, comedy gold. This woman finds out that not only are her friends still alive but two of them were being kept hostage by the madman with the undead heads - collection, and all she can think of is 'don't shut me out now Philip ?! Who writes this shit? Woodbury: every scene set in the town is really badly staged. Take a look at the opening 'gladiator' fight and the crowd watching. This is 'generic nineties action fest - bad'! The governor: the man is not evil, he is silly; that moment where he just walked out into the streets to put the bullet in the guy's head, turns his back and then the reaction of the onlookers had me laughing out loud. Brilliant timing! Rick's little hallucination at the end, again was so badly handled it felt anything but scary or intriguing. It's just stupid. Glenn and Maggie? Really? Why? No explanation whatsoever for the silence... Glen freaking out and stomping the zombie's head, again, seemed out of place. Are they really playing it for laughs. I still kinda enjoy watching this show, but it's like watching Macgyver with zombies or something: cheesy fun. Yeh, I'm kind of in the same boat with Kris here. I wasn't terribly impressed with this episode. The Daryl/Merle thing was a bit meh, but I'll let it go, because it's feasible. Andrea's pep talk was f@ckin wretched. She's being turned into a truly awful character. Time for Kirkman to speak up about that IMHO. There's some extremely bad writing going on. Everyone nodding in agreement with her shite talk, like muppets. Fkn 'ell. I would have loved if someone in the crowd had said "Oh shut the f*ck up, you stupid c*nt. You've only been here a wet weekend". Well, not really, but you know what I mean. And people being oh so shocked at the the Gov shooting a bitten man in the head so he doesn't turn? If I'm not mistaken, the dead have returned to life and are eating the living? There cannot be a living person left, in the series time frame, that hasn't seen somebody (they know) blasted in the head so they don't come back? They attend gladiator sessions for f*ck sake! That scene was a farce. Rick's Lori vision was awful. Time to knock that on the head. And Glenn and Maggie? Correct me if I;m wrong, but the Gov didn't actually rape Maggie right? But Glenn thinks he (possibly) did? And Maggies like, yeh I won't mention anything. What? Either way, it's being badly written.

[bassman]

The people of Woodbury easily agreeing with Andrea made sense to me. They've been doing it for a year with The Governor. They crave some sort of structure and a figure to look up to. They want to be told everything is safe and will work out in the long run. I'm not saying I agree with it or would have done the same, but it makes sense that some people can't abandon that structure...

[shootemindehead]

I agree and I'd have bought it, if the Gov had said those words and managed to win the folk over. But I ain't buying it from Miss Dyed Blonde Screwy Face.

[MinionZombie]

Shoot - my take is that Glenn doesn't believe Maggie to be telling the truth (that she wasn't raped). I think Glenn thinks that Maggie was raped and that she is with-holding that information to spare him the grief ... that's making Glenn a little paranoid around Maggie ... but to be fair he's not in a calm or rational headspace. I'm sure many or all of us here would be in a similar head space if something like that happened to our beloved. The people of Woodbury easily agreeing with Andrea made sense to me. They've been doing it for a year with The Governor. They crave some sort of structure and a figure to look up to. They want to be told everything is safe and will work out in the long run. I'm not saying I agree with it or would have done the same, but it makes sense that some people can't abandon that structure... They're sheeple, those Woodburyites. Again, irrational thought and mob mentality - they're penned in and they've been attacked - QUICK - lemme outta here! Like rats fleeing a sinking ship. I liked what Mazzara had to say about the episode in that Andrea is trying to calm things down - she now knows her people are alive and that they attacked Woodbury, but she also knows why they attacked, so she's going to try and see if she can save the situation - broker a peace between the tribes, but we'll see how well that goes, particularly when The Governor comes out swinging (he's transforming in private at this point). As I've said before, the actual words spoken by Andrea didn't inspire me at all, and I was unsure how they'd actually inspire anyone. The idea of the scene - yes, I'm all behind that - but the speech itself within the scene, no, that needed work, I feel. As far as "niggles" with the show go - I do hope folks can keep them in perspective. They are mere niggles after all. Just think about how much they get spot-on-fantastic-correct with this show.

[ProfessorChaos]

thought the episode was decent overall, but had some gripes which all been hit on already. the interactions between merle and the group were amusing, and seeing rick knock merle the fuck out was so satisfying. really interested to see how daryl and merle's reunion tour goes. didn't notice the airport zombie homage, will have to go back and watch that bit again. however, andrea's speech was about as authentic as a ten-dollar rolex...cringe-worthy, indeed. yet another reason to groan everytime she's onscreen. and rick's hallucinations were getting stale when they were just auditory...like shootem, i hope they drop this bit quickly and not drag it out much longer. a co-worker who's unfamiliar with the comics was saying at work today that he thinks the whole thing is just in rick's head while he's still in a coma at the hospital or dying on the side of the highway in shane's arms after the shootout. normally i would tell him he's wrong, but with all rick's hallucinations (the phone calls, ghost lori, the shane appearance at woodbury), i could see where someone might interpret it that way. really hoping next week is a bit better.

[Neil]

He's slipping. I'll like that expression! It's nice to know we're not stuck with cliche Hollywood hero characters that are invulnerable... Makes the show more interesting! - - - Updated - - - The people of Woodbury easily agreeing with Andrea made sense to me. They've been doing it for a year with The Governor. They crave some sort of structure and a figure to look up to. They want to be told everything is safe and will work out in the long run. I'm not saying I agree with it or would have done the same, but it makes sense that some people can't abandon that structure... It was a little contrived! She spouts some rhetoric and after 2-3 sentences the crowd become all ye-haw... Didn't quite work IMHO. But an enjoyable episode.

[MinionZombie]

A really small, but cool, detail that I dug in this episode was during the Rick vs Glenn argument - in the background in the woods a single zombie, then two zombies, appear - also, down at the end of the road there's another one shambling about. Straight out of the comics, and an interesting use of them too - they're coming, but they're far enough away that they don't have to panic and run away. Just a little touch - there's walkers in them thar woods.

[Neil]

Well, we had flyboy in the last episode, did no one else catch the airport zombie at the hole in Woodbury's fence? Sort of noticed it... Was it just a coincidence, or a true homage?

[bassman]

Sort of noticed it... Was it just a coincidence, or a true homage? It seemed intentional. I haven't had a chance to get a good screencap, so this is the best I could find at the moment. Top Right corner.

[Neil]

^^ I think a red checked shirt would have been mandatory?

[bassman]

I would have to get a better screencap, but I think he may have had one it's just hard to tell because of the shadows and angle. It may indeed turn out to be a coincidence, but if it is, that's a hell of a coincidence...

[Legion2213]

The people of Woodbury easily agreeing with Andrea made sense to me. They've been doing it for a year with The Governor. They crave some sort of structure and a figure to look up to. They want to be told everything is safe and will work out in the long run. I'm not saying I agree with it or would have done the same, but it makes sense that some people can't abandon that structure... I get the feeling that a lot of Woodburyites have become acustomed to being safe, warm, fed and watered...and have also become dependant on a strong leader, so I agree, Andrea stepping in and basically telling them everything would be fine is all they really needed to calm them...I reckon any one of the Govs goons could have done the same and got the same result instead of acting like dicks and just waving their guns about...and of course, Andrea to them has been seen as part of the governers "inner circle" so even if she hasn't been there long, she may carry some influence.