Feminism and the Likes

[blind2d]

Nope. I'm sorry Publius, I just can't agree on that score. If one keeps a childlike mentality about the viewing of sports, anything can be entertaining and exciting. I should probably amend that. If one keeps an OPEN MIND about sports, then NBA and WNBA matches could conceivably be entertaining, because you would realize that the athletes are trying their darnedest, and it's a joy to watch the human form in motion. They are professionals. They put in the same time, they put in the same effort, they should get paid the same. The problem is exposure, which is not the fault of the athletes but of the managers, and the marketing people, media moguls, etc. Most of these people are male, and have a vested interest in keeping male sports far more available to the public. It's a patriarchy, people. Still, yeah, even in this day and age. I know, right? I'd rather watch women play basketball professionally than men, but that's just me. And baseball is boring. No matter who's playing.

[Publius]

Nope. I'm sorry Publius, I just can't agree on that score. If one keeps a childlike mentality about the viewing of sports, anything can be entertaining and exciting. I should probably amend that. If one keeps an OPEN MIND about sports, then NBA and WNBA matches could conceivably be entertaining, because you would realize that the athletes are trying their darnedest, and it's a joy to watch the human form in motion. They are professionals. They put in the same time, they put in the same effort, they should get paid the same. The problem is exposure, which is not the fault of the athletes but of the managers, and the marketing people, media moguls, etc. Most of these people are male, and have a vested interest in keeping male sports far more available to the public. It's a patriarchy, people. Still, yeah, even in this day and age. I know, right? I'd rather watch women play basketball professionally than men, but that's just me. And baseball is boring. No matter who's playing. That's opinion, not fact, right? Anyways, good luck getting the entire world of sports fans to think like you rather than how they do now, but I'm pretty skeptical that you'll have much luck.

[EvilNed]

Except, for the fact, that male sports is actively promoted and has been throughout our history until just recently. There's much more around that weighs in besides skill. We are living in a patriarchy. Also, the thing about changing people's minds? We're constantly trying to shape and evolve a better society for ourselves and our children. We're actively campaigning and deriding racism, so why not this?

[Publius]

Except, for the fact, that male sports is actively promoted and has been throughout our history until just recently. There's much more around that weighs in besides skill. We are living in a patriarchy. As I have demonstrated, the fact that people prefer to watch athletes who excel over athletes who do not has nothing to do with the patriarchy. The principle applies just the same *within* male-only sports (e.g. major leagues v. minor leagues, as discussed above). The fact that female athletes simply perform at a lower level makes it reasonable to expect that, in general, people will continue to pay less attention to women's sports, even positing a complete eradication of patriarchy and sexism from society. It's simply not realistic to expect sports fans to stop caring about level of athletic performance while continuing to be sports fans, any more than it would be realistic to expect American Idol or Eurovision to stop looking for the best performers and just declare that everyone who tried really hard was a winner.

[blind2d]

Herein lies the problem. If we viewed sports more as art, we'd be able to appreciate those who perform differently from others, rather than having this set expectation that being good at sports looks like 'THIS' rather than 'ThiS'. You see? Take skateboarding for example. No two people skate the same. Lincoln Ueda is not Tony Hawk, nor is Mimi Knoop, but all three skate ramps in an impressive unique way. None of them are "winning" skateboarding (unless you count taking advantage of the system and making way too much money off it, a la the Birdman, but he gives back, so it's all good), and yet they are all skateboarders. If only other sports were so liberating and artistic. Sadly this is not the case, as the general structure of team sports is rigid and fixed (double meaning?). Anyhowitzer, men invented the sports they're "best" at, I notice... What a surprise.

[EvilNed]

As I have demonstrated, the fact that people prefer to watch athletes who excel over athletes who do not has nothing to do with the patriarchy. The principle applies just the same *within* male-only sports (e.g. major leagues v. minor leagues, as discussed above). The fact that female athletes simply perform at a lower level makes it reasonable to expect that, in general, people will continue to pay less attention to women's sports, even positing a complete eradication of patriarchy and sexism from society. It's simply not realistic to expect sports fans to stop caring about level of athletic performance while continuing to be sports fans, any more than it would be realistic to expect American Idol or Eurovision to stop looking for the best performers and just declare that everyone who tried really hard was a winner. Do you also then believe that there is no corelation between the number of women in congress and the skill of women as politicans? It's silly to ignore the history of sports. There's a reason why things are the way they are, and history clearly shows and women have not, and still do not, get the same rights and priviledges as man.

[LivingDeadGuy]

I think the problem with people's views on feminism is that they think feminism is all about being a mean-spirited woman who hates all men. Some feminist obviously do hate men because they have had to put up with male oppression but that doesn't mean that it's all about man-hating. I actually know a girl who hates the term feminist because she links it to man-hating and she doesn't want to be thought of as man-hater because she knows that not all men are bad. I think it should simply be called "equality" and just wanting the same fair treatment for everybody. I mean really what is so wrong with that? And I agree that women seem to be under attack nowadays for wanting equal rights it's not like it was in the 90's when an ambitious woman who wanted more out of her life was actually admired for doing so. Boy times have changed...

[EvilNed]

I think it should simply be called "equality" and just wanting the same fair treatment for everybody. I mean really what is so wrong with that? There's no problem with it, but there are a lot of words with the word "man" in it that are never questioned. So why question Feminism? I agree feminism could and maybe should be changed to "equality". But if so, then we should give "equal" treatment to the entire vernacular of the english language and include words such as Mankind in there as well. Maybe call us something else... Terrestial Cognitive Bipeds?

[LivingDeadGuy]

There's no problem with it, but there are a lot of words with the word "man" in it that are never questioned. So why question Feminism? I agree feminism could and maybe should be changed to "equality". But if so, then we should give "equal" treatment to the entire vernacular of the english language and include words such as Mankind in there as well. Maybe call us something else... Terrestial Cognitive Bipeds? Or maybe just call us "people"? It's more simple but it gets the point across that we all are basically the same when it comes to are needs as human beings. Plus I'm really not too crazy about labels because every label carries limits and they shouldn't be allowed to define who we are as a person.

[EvilNed]

Or maybe just call us "people"? It's more simple but it gets the point across that we all are basically the same when it comes to are needs as human beings. Plus I'm really not too crazy about labels because every label carries limits and they shouldn't be allowed to define who we are as a person. I'm all for that, if we're gonna go down the "rewrite the language"-road.