TWD 2x05 "Chupacabra" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[DjfunkmasterG]

I am not saying I don't want to see good development of characters, but seriously a lot of the things these guys have done should have gotten them killed, just like Herschel stated... it's a surprise they have survived this long. Some elements of the show are great, but some of it is bad. Even worse than Romero's latest crap fest (Survival). I have read the comics and while I understand this show is based on, I seriously believe... very loosely based on, it is getting a little too off base from episode to episode. We're 5 episodes into Season 5, with 8 to go, and it is just running very uneven.

[bassman]

I am not saying I don't want to see good development of characters, but seriously a lot of the things these guys have done should have gotten them killed, just like Herschel stated... it's a surprise they have survived this long. That's a central theme throughout the entire comic series. Rick always questioning whether his decisions are the best for the group. He often makes decisions that seem like the best at the time, but often cause more problems, but the issue is that he's the only one with the balls to stand up and be a leader. The show has followed that very closely, imo. Which, btw, is also a very common theme in Romero's films. There are often stupid mistakes. That's the entire drama of the series - learning to adapt in a new world. As i've said before on this board and many others - If the "soap opera" drama is too much for you THIS early in the story, you might as well give it up now because TWD only goes deeper into the human drama, emotions, connections, and conditions. Large portions of the story having absolutely nothing to do with zombies. This is a story about people.

[Cykotic]

So, I've just finished watching this episode and all i can say is... What the hell? Don't get me wrong, it was a good episode (in a very good season) and the opening was exactly what I wanted to see, but that last sequence of the episode was just..... what?. Aside from that Daryl was once again on top form.

[childofgilead]

The irony is that both sides of the argument are right. I have every single trade paperback of the comic and I've preordered number 15. I've read them each..conservatively..5 times apiece, at least up through 8, while I was working night shift in a call center. Now I can be honest with myself and admit that Kirkman is NOT the end all be all. He uses ALOT of hackneyed dialogue in his stories, but I've still maintained an interest. The trade paperbacks are always a decent read, even if I do sometimes spoil myself by reading a few individual issues before the TPBs come out. And when I heard that they were making a series, I was jonesed, especially when I heard Darabont's name being thrown around, because I knew what he did with The Mist and I figured he'd be able to pare it down and turn it into a lean and mean hotrod. But there are just some serious issues for me this season. I can't really nail it down, I honestly wish I could. Maybe being able to watch them all back to back will help. Maybe it's just the hugely intrusive advertising AMC does during the breaks. Seriously, they have more commercial breaks for any network I've ever seen. Unevenness was mentioned earlier. I think that's the crux of the problem. In the comics, there was alot of things going down on their way to their destination. Time passed. We didn't have to see it, it was mentioned in passing and we filled in the blanks ourselves. Now on the show, they're showing us the misadventures at the farm. And it's getting old. The Sophia storyline isn't in the comics. I didn't mind the idea, I thought it added tension. But at this point it's just a practice in futility. I really can't see them killing the character off because there would be no reason in it and she plays a part, however small, in the comic series. So this thing is really being drawn out way too long. And the little scene with Rick and Shane in the woods. That was a good scene, it reminded me right away of them in the squad car in the first episode. They really seemed like friends, and seeing them disagree really worked for me. However, Rick being the leader? I can't see that. He's done nothing yet, shown no real drive this season. And I think that's simply because of the waiting we're being forced to endure at the homestead. Andrea's characterization is so far off from the comics it's mindblowing. And again, I wouldn't mind, if it were done well. But it seems like they're just trying to make her this fragile little thing so she either blossom into a hardnosed flat out killer or continue to be pressed down by whatever screwup she manages to get herself into week after week. Not only is it boring, it's inappropriate. You can tell a story, a GOOD story, with brevity. I'm starting to wonder if this whole extended season is actually detrimental to the series as a whole. Before, it was pared down and lean, nothing really was wasted in progressing the story. Now, I don't mind the character building. That's what made the comic interesting to me, when they're crammed together in the RV or coming up with ways to thin the walkers from the fence that protects them, those are the moments that I loved, because they'd never been captured before in zombie-dom. The mind crushing BOREDOM of survival. I dunno..I know this isn't really the most well worded post, it's just really been bothering me the past few days. I enjoy the comic, even though it has it's flaws. Hell, I even bought the Rise of The Governor paperback because I wanted to give it a chance. I'm not saying that I have to have gore and zombie shenanigans to keep me entertained. But I DO need to feel like the actions that characters make are making a difference, that they're either pissing each other off or helping each other up out of the dirt. I hope that this was the lesson Andrea needed to learn to get off of her high horse. I hope that Dale will stop acting like a kid who pissed off his mom and is trying to get back into her good graces. I hope that Rick takes the situation coming up and uses it and BUILDS on it to become the leader that he is from the comic.

[Zombie Snack]

How are the ratings holding up? looks like they are staying about the same so I guess people are still watching.

[AcesandEights]

I dunno..I know this isn't really the most well worded post, it's just really been bothering me the past few days. No, no dude--you hit a lot of points other people seem to feel, as well. Especially with regards to Andrea, uneven storytelling and the need for brevity on occasion. I even bought the Rise of The Governor paperback because I wanted to give it a chance. How was it, without spoilers? -- -------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ---------- How are the ratings holding up? looks like they are staying about the same so I guess people are still watching. Been holding up pretty well, but I didn't check this last Sunday nights' numbers. Kidgloves has kindly been posting updates on them here. Looks like the numbers are doing great so far.

[kidgloves]

The core audience seems to be 6m which is outstanding for a network like AMC. Mad Men gets less than half that. The parent company of AMC have just posted their financial results and they were higher than expected even without Mad Men this year.

[Thorn]

I see this complaint mainly at the imdb boards and i just don't buy it. Whats so soap opera-ish about it? Even if it IS soap operatic so are the comics. Comic books are essentially soap operas they follow the same basic guidelines and have the same sort of restrictions. You follow the lives of the same characters enough and you are going to see the same stuff over and over. The X-Men were not a soap opera? PLEASE. They certainly were and remain so to this day, comics are all about the relationships, building a team, breaking it down, giving them challenges, and having them overcome them. The shock ending, the cliff hanger, the big reveal, the hero, the villain, the anti hero. Guys... I have bad news for you this is the comic. I loved the episode. It was paced fine for me, I don't need constant zombie battles. I don't need non stop action, my mind can appreciate more than that in fact it craves more than that. What set THIS zombie comic apart from the others was exactly that... amazing character development and focus. Remember the montage in Dawn where they loot the bank, take giant loafs of bread, and wear fur coats? That is what this is. It is down time for character development.

[MikePizzoff]

great episode......but glenn finding out about the barn coulda been avoided had she just let him tear off a piece of ass somewhere else. I think you missed a small bit of the last scene. Maggie didn't read Glenn's note until after dinner, when Glenn had already made his way to the barn. BARN of the DEAD.... Jesus, can they ruin this show anymore than they already have? And trust me when I say I am not simply referring to the barn scene, it was the whole fuckin Episode... Gettin' tired of Andrea's attitude and chip on her shoulder... now she wants to be the big fuckin' hero and try and save the day and what does this dumb bitch do... She shoots the most awesome character on the f*ckin' show... Oh boy... now ya got me started..., Then, Glen is playing middle school flirt with the farmer's daughter... Rick and Shane are having a dick measuring contest, and now they interject politics by having the racist hillbilly pretty much call all democrats... pussies. Jesus F*cking Christ, what are they doing to that show... Huh??? The barn was a big turning point in the comic; it isn't an element simply added in by some random AMC producer. Andrea's attitude wasn't in the comic, I'll give you that, but she was in a severe state of depression and distancing herself from the group, much like how she's being portrayed in the show. Glen and Maggie are pretty much exactly the same as in the comic. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you talk about Rick & Shane having a dick measuring contest, so I can't interject that. Finally, what would you expect a racist redneck to call democrats? I don't think they're trying to bring politics into this at all; just giving us some more insight into how terrible Merle is (character development).

[Ragnarr]

I doubt they'd have Sophia killed off, but if they did, I wouldn't think they'd have her staggering about in the barn. I do agree however that someone needs to give Andrea a serious b-slap discussion before she does something completly stupid again. What is it they say about blondes again? Oh yeah, durp!

[Sammich]

Andrea needs to undergo hysterical paroxysm treatment for female hysteria, as she is exhibiting several of the main symptoms including nervousness, irritability and a tendency to cause trouble. I learned about this on wikipedia so it must be true.

[darth los]

Andrea needs to undergo hysterical paroxysm treatment for female hysteria, as she is exhibiting several of the main symptoms including nervousness, irritability and a tendency to cause trouble. I learned about this on wikipedia so it must be true. I thought that was called a period?

[Wyldwraith]

I'll just say, WTH? I know its probably an honored convention of the comics, but Herschel is pulling a Muldoon in his barn? WHY? It didn't make sense to me in Survival, and it doesn't make a lick of sense here. I could buy, just barely, the idea of not wanting to put down a freshly reanimated loved one who just died traumatically (similar to Morgan's issue with his undead wife)...but when they get to the point where the rot/decay is visually all-encompassing, how can anyone retain an emotional connection to a rotting mobile disease-factory that wants to EAT THEM? My grandfather passed away after having first won numerous battles against lung cancer before it finally won the war. I love my grandfather dearly, dead or not, but I tell you honestly that if his spirit could return from the dead for one breath as his rotten corpse staggered towards me, he would say "SHOOT THAT ROTTING SUMBITCH!" or something equally matter-of-fact and straight to the point. I know this, know it to be incontravertably true, so I would shoot him in the head and send his empty physical shell back to the same rest his spirit currently enjoys. NOT leave it wandering around on a chain connected to a stake pounded in the ground or staggering around in some securable structure. It would be making a mockery of the man he was, and quite simply, I would die before doing that. I just don't get how the same train of thought wouldn't come to most people. Ie: That anyone who loved you certainly wouldn't try to eat you, ergo whatever this THING resembles, it is NOT said loved one. Maybe I'm missing something fundamental here. Could someone run a direct point on this by me?

[Legion2213]

Totally loved this episode, Daryl is the bright shining light of this series as far as I am concerned, absolutely fantastic character, he sweats awesome! Loved the little peep at the breakown of the world in the flashback as well, dropping napalm in the streets of your own cities is always a good indicator that zombiegeddon is rolling along nicely!

[Thorn]

I'll just say, WTH? I know its probably an honored convention of the comics, but Herschel is pulling a Muldoon in his barn? WHY? It didn't make sense to me in Survival, and it doesn't make a lick of sense here. I could buy, just barely, the idea of not wanting to put down a freshly reanimated loved one who just died traumatically (similar to Morgan's issue with his undead wife)...but when they get to the point where the rot/decay is visually all-encompassing, how can anyone retain an emotional connection to a rotting mobile disease-factory that wants to EAT THEM? My grandfather passed away after having first won numerous battles against lung cancer before it finally won the war. I love my grandfather dearly, dead or not, but I tell you honestly that if his spirit could return from the dead for one breath as his rotten corpse staggered towards me, he would say "SHOOT THAT ROTTING SUMBITCH!" or something equally matter-of-fact and straight to the point. I know this, know it to be incontravertably true, so I would shoot him in the head and send his empty physical shell back to the same rest his spirit currently enjoys. NOT leave it wandering around on a chain connected to a stake pounded in the ground or staggering around in some securable structure. It would be making a mockery of the man he was, and quite simply, I would die before doing that. I just don't get how the same train of thought wouldn't come to most people. Ie: That anyone who loved you certainly wouldn't try to eat you, ergo whatever this THING resembles, it is NOT said loved one. Maybe I'm missing something fundamental here. Could someone run a direct point on this by me? Well a lot of people thought that Romero stole the idea of not wanting to put down the dead and storing them in the Barn from TWD. That said it is a bad idea either way you look at it of course, but I guess to a religious person who doesn't believe they are zombies but instead sick loved ones who are decaying or rotting away that might have a chance to be saved who is opposed to taking "life" it could present a challenge of the mind... also since if you are catholic don't you believe during the rapture we all return from the dead or something? Honestly though going back to Dawn there were examples of the Living not wanting to dispatch their dead so it is not such a stretch for the show based on the genre, I don't know man I am with you I would have no trouble killing anything that was trying to kill me or my family.. at least I am pretty sure about that