Blue Origin launch

[EvilNed]

As well as not listening to what you're commenting on, do you read what you're commenting on? Because you suggest, "to not even consider alternatives" - But how much more considerate to alternative can I be than asking, "do you have different views..."? I'm literally asking you... "I don't believe billionaire vanity projects are the best way to solve those issues" How would you suggest we improve space travel then to solve those issues? More taxes to fund NASA, who is stagnated and not as effective or cost effective as some of these private space ventures? You realise NASA is relying more and more on private space ventures themselves to become more cost effective? "I believe that they're necessarily the most pressing issues either" No one said it was. But should everyone and everything be dedicated to "pressing thing number one", before then moving on to "pressing thing number two"? Mind you, personally I'd suggest a mass extinction event, should require a modicum of attention when we have the capability to do so. Simply crossing fingers seems rather naive. "I have no idea what technological or quality of life improvements that space travel can yield" And there may be the core of the problem... Anyway, this isn't going anywhere and I kinda feel like I'm not getting through to you. Appreciate that you like space and all, but I don't see anything constructive coming out of these vanity projects that couldn't have been solved in any number of other ways. Bezos can do what he wants with his money, it's his. All I'm saying is Shapiro's points are easily picked apart and he's not really worth my time. EDIT: I'd like to add that the core of the problem is probably that we have massively different ideas on what challenges mankind is facing.

[Neil]

I don't see anything constructive coming out of these vanity projects that couldn't have been solved in any number of other ways. So can I ask (again) what are these other ways of solving them?:- How do we get more rare elements, once they're all but used up on Earth? How do we prevent that next large asteroid from hitting Earth (killing millions, or worse)? Cross fingers humanity isn't decimated needlessly? How do we ideally put as much industry as possible into space to prevent it being required on Earth? Shapiro's points are easily picked apart Possibly. If only you'd actually do it. Because thus far you picked fault with a point he didn't even make; You instead misquoted him, significantly. And then you picked fault saying he didn't explain his position, which he did. Some of the points are akin to the one above, so I'm keen to see where/how you disagree. I'd like to add that the core of the problem is probably that we have massively different ideas on what challenges mankind is facing. And that's uber fine. There are indeed a myriad from economic, to ecological, to political. All need attention... And some of them are above...

[EvilNed]

So can I ask (again) what are these other ways of solving them?:- How do we get more rare elements, once they're all but used up on Earth? How do we prevent that next large asteroid from hitting Earth (killing millions, or worse)? Cross fingers humanity isn't decimated needlessly? How do we ideally put as much industry as possible into space to prevent it being required on Earth? The problem with debating on the internet is that you can always go deeper and deeper into a subject. There is no end. The reason I'm not answering is because I don't agree with the assertions that these points are something we need to fix or look into, especially not given the situation we're in down here. So arguing the points is not really in my interest. All I can say is; We don't need to solve them right now.

[Neil]

The problem with debating on the internet is that you can always go deeper and deeper into a subject. There is no end. The reason I'm not answering is because I don't agree with the assertions that these points are something we need to fix or look into, especially not given the situation we're in down here. So arguing the points is not really in my interest. All I can say is; We don't need to solve them right now. OK... A fingers crossed approach is it is then for the Tunguska event we may be overdue... Actually as it's potentially millions of lives or more, let's cross toes too. That seems wise

[JDP]

OK... A fingers crossed approach is it is then for the Tunguska event we may be overdue... Actually as it's potentially millions of lives or more, let's cross toes too. That seems wise If something like that happens anytime in the near future, then we are simply screwed, private or government space programs notwithstanding. Current technology simply isn't at such a level to allow for taking any sizable amount of people into space and then to somewhere where they can keep a civilization going on. We have more chances of surviving such an event by going underground or underwater, since current technology could mobilize and sustain sizable numbers of people in those environments.

[EvilNed]

OK... A fingers crossed approach is it is then for the Tunguska event we may be overdue... Actually as it's potentially millions of lives or more, let's cross toes too. That seems wise There are many more pressing issues down here which may lead to our extinction.

[Neil]

There are many more pressing issues down here which may lead to our extinction. More pressing than millions of lives lost, or even our potential extinction, down here, today? We should ignore that, even when addressing it comes at potentially such a small outlay? And it of course continues to be a terribly cryptic and difficult conversation when any and all points are simply parried away with a vague and mysterious, "other more pressing issues".... But all we can determine is, what ever they are, it of course means investment in space, and what it can offer the species on so many levels, should stop, because all that effort should instead be dedicated to _______? I think it's clear, that without specifics to explain/justify/validate points, we're wasting out time. - - - Updated - - - If something like that happens anytime in the near future, then we are simply screwed, private or government space programs notwithstanding. Current technology simply isn't at such a level to allow for taking any sizable amount of people into space and then to somewhere where they can keep a civilization going on. We have more chances of surviving such an event by going underground or underwater, since current technology could mobilize and sustain sizable numbers of people in those environments. The most simple approach of stopping another large impact, which could easily kill millions (or worse), are:- 1) Detecting the object soon enough. 2) Getting a craft to that object soon enough, because making a tiny change to its path soon enough, means a big change in its path later. Both of those are achievable, and the kind of quick turn around and strong footing in space required by (2) is exactly what the private space enterprises are beginning to offer us. Another large impact will happen, and we're simply playing Russian roulette at the moment day to day. If a small amount of effort can mean we prevent it? Great! And if that same effort offers a multitude of other benefits at the same time? Great! Seems to me that at a time when we can finally take action to potentially save millions of lives, or indeed protect the entire species, and when that action is also in truth so minor and small (it's not even costing tax dollars), not doing so ASAP is just madness. ps: This thinking is the entire reason Musk has dedicated himself to SpaceX. So I find it odd when such a grand venture is described (belittled), as a "vanity project."

[EvilNed]

More pressing than millions of lives lost, or even our potential extinction, down here, today? We should ignore that, even when addressing it comes at potentially such a small outlay? Yes of course. I don't buy into the whole cataclysmic excinction level event argument because if that's what you're worried about you should look into saving the polar ice caps, stopping yellowstone from erupting, educating people about the benefits of GMO or why not - the godsend of them all - cheap technology that desalinate salt water? None of them are as sexy as flying into space, mind you. Cause fuck yeah, rockets.

[JDP]

The most simple approach of stopping another large impact, which could easily kill millions (or worse), are:- 1) Detecting the object soon enough. 2) Getting a craft to that object soon enough, because making a tiny change to its path soon enough, means a big change in its path later. Both of those are achievable, and the kind of quick turn around and strong footing in space required by (2) is exactly what the private space enterprises are beginning to offer us. Another large impact will happen, and we're simply playing Russian roulette at the moment day to day. If a small amount of effort can mean we prevent it? Great! And if that same effort offers a multitude of other benefits at the same time? Great! Seems to me that at a time when we can finally take action to potentially save millions of lives, or indeed protect the entire species, and when that action is also in truth so minor and small (it's not even costing tax dollars), not doing so ASAP is just madness. ps: This thinking is the entire reason Musk has dedicated himself to SpaceX. So I find it odd when such a grand venture is described (belittled), as a "vanity project." If you haven't seen it already, you should watch Meteor (1979).

[MinionZombie]

But how specifically does Bezos launching himself into space for a jolly result in the ability to detect and blow up an incoming asteroid? The optics of this is what's the problem, at least in this discussion on HPOTD perhaps. They've not done enough PR work to explain the future implications of the likes of Blue Origin et al, because it just looks like a staggeringly wealthy guy playing astronaut while the people working in his fulfilment centres are routinely discouraged from forming a union, or truly gaining upwards movement on the job ladder, or even getting a decent break to have a comfortable lunch and drop the kids off at the pool. SpaceX has done a slightly better job - e.g. working on re-usable rockets, satellite-based superfast Internet connectivity, etc. Blue Origin looks far too much like a billionnaire's jolly in a cock-shaped rocket, regardless of intent or future implications, and after the hellish time we've all been having globally in the last 18 months, it's ... well...

[Neil]

But how specifically does Bezos launching himself into space for a jolly result in the ability to detect and blow up an incoming asteroid? It's a private industry so needs to entice paying customers (at this stage). Would you suggest they try and pitch the journey as dull? The fact Bezos actually put his own life on the line for the first flight is a good thing. After Blue Origin will no doubt come more and more projects, getting a bigger and bigger footing in space. Which is what we of course need to "detect and blow up an incoming asteroid." The optics of this is what's the problem, at least in this discussion on HPOTD perhaps. They've not done enough PR work to explain the future implications of the likes of Blue Origin et al, because it just looks like a staggeringly wealthy guy playing astronaut while the people working in his fulfilment centres are routinely discouraged from forming a union, or truly gaining upwards movement on the job ladder, or even getting a decent break to have a comfortable lunch and drop the kids off at the pool. SpaceX has done a slightly better job - e.g. working on re-usable rockets, satellite-based superfast Internet connectivity, etc. Blue Origin looks far too much like a billionnaire's jolly in a cock-shaped rocket, regardless of intent or future implications, and after the hellish time we've all been having globally in the last 18 months, it's ... well... Guess it depends on what's reported. What you choose to digest. And of course, ones own personal choice how to view things as a whole? But, just a click away, does this feel like someone on a vanity project, or someone with hopefully a greater goal? Just one click - https://www.blueorigin.com/our-mission Is it just fake PR? Who knows... But I don't believe so... "This is the most important work I'm doing" - Jeff Bezos If you haven't seen it already, you should watch Meteor (1979). A classic! But IMHO, "Deep Impact" for the win... a cock-shaped rocket Don't know what you're talking about you pervert!

[Neil]

So, William Shatner going up soon... Fingers crossed.

[JDP]

So, William Shatner going up soon... Fingers crossed. "Beam my diapers up, Scotty."

[Neil]

Shatner looked in good shape TBH. Noticed him putting his shoes on/covers on, and he put his feet on his knees. Not bad at 90!

[shootemindehead]

He's the only one coming back though.