The Great Global Warming Swindle

[Danny]

wether its our fault or not, if it's threat of global human annialation that gets people to be more enviromentaly cnosious, and unfortunatly it does, then hey ends to a means. though i gotta say given your the devil im more enclined to agree with dj

[LouCipherr]

wether its our fault or not, if it's threat of global human annialation that gets people to be more enviromentaly cnosious, and unfortunatly it does, then hey ends to a means. though i gotta say given your the devil im more enclined to agree with dj

[axlish]

"Volcanoes and other natural processes release approximately 24 Tg of sulfur to the atmosphere each year. Thus, volcanoes are responsible for 43% of the total natural S flux each year. Man's activities add about 79 Tg sulfur to the atmosphere each year. In an average year, volcanoes release only 13% of the sulfur added to the atmosphere compared to anthropogenic sources. Andres and Kasgnoc (1997) noted that the bulk of the anthropogenic flux is located in the northern hemisphere while volcanic fluxes occur in much more focused belts around the world." Terran, no one said that volcanoes were the cause. There have been MASSIVE volcano eruptions previously in history that put out more CO2 that the entire industrial revolution combined. We're talking about one time events that somehow didn't slam us into another ice age, not trying to place current blame.

[LouCipherr]

Just a few more things I'd like to add that relate to the discussion: Strongest Snowstorm in Half a Century in China "THE strongest March snowstorm to hit northeast China's Liaoning Province in 56 years has left at least one person dead and seven injured after the roof of an agricultural trade building collapsed under the weight of the snow, local sources said." But wait, the planet is getting warmer and the polar ice caps are melting, how is this possible? Another one: Toronto Has Coldest February in 28 Years "Not since 1979 has February dished up such bone-rattling conditions. The average temperature was -8.4C, which was three degrees colder than normal. " But the mean temperature of the planet is going to go up 15 degrees and kill us all! C'mon, isn't this just further evidence that it's all 'cycles'? If the global warming "gloom and doom" bullsh*t was true, we wouldn't be seeing headlines like this would we? Would we be seeing "this is the warmest winter in the past century " - but we're not seeing that. Even in the summer time - sure, every state/area sets it own warm temperature records in the summer at times, but if this global warming stuff was true, it wouldn't just be a single state or area here and there, there would be reports of entire countries showing a warming. That's not happening. Lets not forget here in the USA this year: record snows in New York this year (well over 10 feet of snow in one shot!), record snows in Minnesota... hell, even my state had an unexpected ICE storm 3 weeks ago that put a few counties in my state out of commission (and power) for almost a full week, myself included - and I'm supposed to buy into the fact that the planet is going heat up, ice caps and icebergs will melt and cover the country I live in with water? Sorry, I don't buy it. I have considered both sides of this issue - I have looked at what the global warming people believe and their evidence, and I have looked at the evidence that GW non-believers provide. Sorry, but the evidence weighs so heavy on the 'this is a natural cycle for the planet' that I can't buy into Gore & Co's "you're gonna die from global warming" threats. Again, we ALL need to take care of the planet - we DO have an effect on it, but we will not be the cause of the end of the planet, barring some dumbsh*t doesn't start a nuclear war. The earth itself, in my opinion, will probably cause a catastrophic event to end the human race, but that event will not be caused by humans. It will be a natural event that would've happened regardless of human activity. I guess my bottom line to this whole discussion is this: Think for yourself. Don't let some dingbat with a cute movie that stretches the truth put the fear of impending doom into you. Study the facts that have been presented on both sides and educate yourself. If you do this, the answer to human-influenced global warming should become clear. Thanks for the heartfelt discussion and views from both sides, everyone. I have to admit, I'm extremely surprised anyone even remotely agreed with me regarding anything having to do with this topic. Most people I know are so struck by fear about global warming, they don't even bother to search out the facts. It seems many here have done this already, and have come to their own conclusions. I don't, and never will, claim to know everything about this, but I do know how to look at the facts from both sides and come to a logical conclusion. I hope the rest of you do the same. May the icecaps near your home never melt and bury you underwater. Cheers LC

[Danny]

Just a few more things I'd like to add that relate to the discussion: Strongest Snowstorm in Half a Century in China "THE strongest March snowstorm to hit northeast China's Liaoning Province in 56 years has left at least one person dead and seven injured after the roof of an agricultural trade building collapsed under the weight of the snow, local sources said." But wait, the planet is getting warmer and the polar ice caps are melting, how is this possible? uhh lou, global warming doesnt just mean everythings gonna get hotter, thats why its called climate change more often, since many places are gonna get colder with the rise of the sea levels.

[Terran]

"Volcanoes and other natural processes release approximately 24 Tg of sulfur to the atmosphere each year. Thus, volcanoes are responsible for 43% of the total natural S flux each year. Man's activities add about 79 Tg sulfur to the atmosphere each year. In an average year, volcanoes release only 13% of the sulfur added to the atmosphere compared to anthropogenic sources. Andres and Kasgnoc (1997) noted that the bulk of the anthropogenic flux is located in the northern hemisphere while volcanic fluxes occur in much more focused belts around the world." Terran, no one said that volcanoes were the cause. There have been MASSIVE volcano eruptions previously in history that put out more CO2 that the entire industrial revolution combined. We're talking about one time events that somehow didn't slam us into another ice age, not trying to place current blame. Yeah I know... I was just putting it in perspective ...because we know that large volcanoes have caused global climate change in the past and we produce 150 times more annual CO2 than all the volcanic activity on the planet both on land and in sea. In my #4, I also state that I understand that people do indeed have an effect on climate change, but to think that humans will be the destruction of this planet is hilarious. It's still amazing to me that people think we are a threat to this planet. The earth could wipe out the human race with a single event - yet there are people who believe that some plastic that won't biodegrade, or that the fossil fuels we burn will destroy the planet? But yet we have volcanoes that can put out more garbage into the atmosphere than all the humans on the planet combined? You did see the stuff I posted about volcanoes and how we annually put 150 times more CO2 into the atmosphere than off of them combined annually? And we put more Sulfur into the atmosphere..... And I do not understand why you and others keep saying "but to think that humans will be the destruction of this planet is hilarious.".... It is hilarious because of course it will not going to destroy the planet. I dont believe I have ever said it will "destroy" the planet unless perhaps I slipped into overly powerful language to describe a mass extinction. Massive climate changes have occured on earth in the past and it did not destroy the planet but climate changes do cause mass extinctions....almost every mass extinction event that has occured on this planet is linked with drastic climate change. As it relates to humans a 15 degree temperature swing can cause dozens of probelms. Crop failure as different regions change. Farm land could change either become too dry, become too wet, too cold, or too hot. So you would get a global famine which would spark wars all while people starve. Maybe humans will survive it seems like we would be perfectly capable since we are so adaptive but one would think that the global population of humans would drop significantly maybe from 6 billion to 1 billion while adjusting to a new world....

[axlish]

Yeah I know... I was just putting it in perspective ...because we know that large volcanoes have caused global climate change in the past and we produce 150 times more annual CO2 than all the volcanic activity on the planet both on land and in sea. I assume you are talking about current averages there. These numbers would be skewed by a major blast, which we haven't had in some time now.

[LouCipherr]

And I do not understand why you and others keep saying "but to think that humans will be the destruction of this planet is hilarious.".... It is hilarious because of course it will not going to destroy the planet. I dont believe I have ever said it will "destroy" the planet unless perhaps I slipped into overly powerful language to describe a mass extinction. Terran - when I say that, about GW being the destruction of this planet, I wasn't referring to a quote you made, I was referring to the global warming conspiracy theorists who believe we (humans) will destroy the planet due to human-caused global warming. Don't take it personally, it wasn't meant like that at all, and I wasn't quoting you directly. uhh lou, global warming doesnt just mean everythings gonna get hotter, thats why its called climate change more often, since many places are gonna get colder with the rise of the sea levels. That's not what we're told by Gore & Co. We're told that the planet itself will heat to a point that everything ice will melt, and that water from the melted ice will cover the planet and kill most if not all of us. Those are his theories, I didn't just make it up. Not to mention, the people behind the GW theories will always point to one weather event ("look! today is the hottest it's EVER been in Missouri! We told you GW was real!") and blame it on global warming. As the saying goes, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander." ...and personally, I think they are trying to change it from "global warming" to "climate change" for a reason, don't you? Maybe because they realized this 'warming' stuff ain't all it's cracked up to be. I could agree more with someone who said "we are having climate changes" than "there is global warming and it will eventually do us all in"

[DjfunkmasterG]

Will it happen in the next 20-30 years? If not I ain't worrying about it.

[LouCipherr]

Will it happen in the next 20-30 years? If not I ain't worrying about it. Leave it to Dj.

[Terran]

I assume you are talking about current averages there. These numbers would be skewed by a major blast, which we haven't had in some time now. Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities. Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1992). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 22 billion tonnes per year (24 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 1998) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2.]. Human activities release more than 150 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 13.2 million tonnes/year). So these were the averages from almost 10 years ago. Our emissions of CO2have only increased since. Ill be a little crude in this estimate and lets just say this 1990s figure applies to both current times and the 1980s....24 billion tons of CO2 is pumped out in the air just by humans alone. It stays in the atmosphere anywhere from 50-100 years depending upon the rate of forest growth. So some CO2 from as far back as 1907 is still in the atmosphere even though CO2 emissions back then were much less intense. Back to my crud estimate....since 1980 (27 years) we have approximately pumped out 648 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere and its all still up in the atmosphere. (27 X 24 billion tons a year). So unlike a major volcano blast which blasts it all at once. We are pumping it out constantly. Also a side note really massive volcanos like yellowstone park.... when they erupt first they cause globally cooling because of all the particulate matter blocking out solar radiation...the global cooling only stops when the particulate in the sky leaves.... Will it happen in the next 20-30 years? If not I ain't worrying about it. Yeah but I plan on living at least 222 years....!!

[coma]

But wait, the planet is getting warmer and the polar ice caps are melting, how is this possible? The constant basic misunderstanding. It means erratic weather patterns and more destructive storms Not Michigan with Palm trees. No offense lou, but with all that reading about why "Al Gore" is wrong, you and many other detractors toally misunderstand the meaning of the term. How can you miss it? maybe becasue the people who wrote those "studies" didnt understand either. Erratic weather. check.check double yup More destructive storms. Thats another check. Ice caps melt, water rises, ocean streams change, weather patterns become more unpredictable. Thats pretty mush the gist of it.

[MinionZombie]

There's a thing going around, especially with our bloody gubment in the UK, which gives the impression each individual person has to do some major change to their lives to stop the end of the world... 1) It ain't the end of the world. 2) Each individual person actually only has to do a little bit, if everyone does it, that's as much as we can do to help the situation - a little bit from 6 billion people, nice.

[LouCipherr]

No offense taken, coma - I'm trying to understand all this just like everyone else, I'm just trying to remove the BS factor and the fear-mongering. Perhaps I have misunderstood, but I don't think so. That's not whatis being preached. Have you actually heard Al Gore talk about gw? It's more than just 'erratic weather patterns' he's referring to. Actually, now like I think it was Terran that pointed out (or maybe someone else, sorry if i'm quoting the wrong person), now they're trying to call it "climate change" - which says to me even they did not understand what they were saying or were lying until people caught on - because it all started with "warming trends" then the planet going into a catastrophic state due to melting ice on the polar caps. I'm just sayin'... I'm no expert, all I do is read, look at facts, and come to my own conclusions. However, there are some that blindly believe anything they're told. I'm not one of them. You wanna tell me something is true? Fine, I'll believe you, but eb prepared to back it up. If you tell me the sky is flourescent pink and I see it as blue, you better have something to substantiate your story, or I call bullsh*t. So far, I see no reason not to call gw bullsh*t. Hey, I'm not one of those people on the net that think I'm right all the time (which many suffer from) - if I'm proven wrong, I'll be the first to stand up and admit it, but until then, I don't buy this theory at all. we all have differing opinions, this has been one of mine. I'm sure i'm wrong in a lot of peoples eyes, but that's ok, i'm human, and we're allowed to make mistakes. I don't think I have, but I guess I'll find out in about 10-20 years, eh? I think i've said enough. Feel free to continue discussing - there's not much more I can say about the subject, but I wanted to hear what others had to say about it. LC

[coma]

No offense taken, coma - I'm trying to understand all this just like everyone else, I'm just trying to remove the BS factor and the fear-mongering. Perhaps I have misunderstood, but I don't think so. That's not what is being preached. Have you actually heard Al Gore talk about gw? It's more than just 'erratic weather patterns' he's referring to. Actually, now like I think it was Terran that pointed out (or maybe someone else, sorry if i'm quoting the wrong person), now they're trying to call it "climate change" - which says to me even they did not understand what they were saying or were lying until people caught on - because it all started with "warming trends" then the planet going into a catastrophic state due to melting ice on the polar caps. I have not seen An inconvienient truth, and honestly have no intention to. I have gotten zero infromation from him and his camp. I am in the "more likely than not" crowd and I got my perspective from scientists with no axe to grind. Many of the Anti GW have been exposed as Oil industry hacks and partisans. Not all, but a few I had read material they wrote that I found provocative but had to discard as being devoid of validity due to conflict of interest. Fact is. Earth is filthy and it has to be cleaned up. Just becasue some hate Gore doesnt mean its not true. He is but one voice of many. I am a big time skeptic, but I believe it may be true. Cant say for sure becasue I am not a sciertist either. Putting it all in Gores lap is, to me, f**kin retarded. Im not saying you did that but its very popular lately. Its just partisan posturing and trying to discredit a theory because a politician is associated with it. I have negative number respect for Bush (to be mild) but if he says the sky is blue I am not going to be contrarian simply to be so. And I believe that is what is actually happening. There has always been warming and cooling trends. The difference is Industrial revolution. I think that is a substantial diffrence. If they are wrong, no harm no foul. we end up with a cleaner more responsible planet which we should be doing anyway. If they are right we are screwed if nothing is done. Though I believe it is most likely fact. I think saying its all crap is not being skeptical, its the same as believing everything you read just the inverse.