Red Dead Redemption 2 (video game)

[Neil]

Now... WHEN IS THIS OUT ON THE PC!??!?!?

[MinionZombie]

Okay, so I've played a few hours so far and have got into the free roaming (the first 3 to 4 hours are linear as you're introduced to some base mechanics and story and characters). The amount of detail is extraordinary and once again the art direction is fantastic. There's some nice dialogue, too, with a subtle wit underlying it. I do have one gripe - there's a barrage of instructions and controls to learn from the get-go that it's a bit overwhelming. Now, it takes a while to 'get into' every game and its mechanics/controls, but I think they needed to ease you in a smidge more but also streamline a few things here and there. It comes down to the 'management' side of things with supplies for you, your horse, and the whole damn camp (to which you must contribute - so a few supplies or doing some chores like chopping wood will keep you in their good graces) ... but, for instance, my horse is dirty and I need to brush it - but I don't have a brush. So I went to the general store expecting to buy one there, but there is no brush to buy rather surprisingly! I'll have to run it through a river and clean it off that way, but sometimes you're not near a body of water, you know? But that's really my own gripe and compared to the sheer scale of awesomeness, it's not a biggy, but it's still something that I'm surprised play testers didn't pick up on and suggest a bit of streamlining. Even very small and subtle things like the 'learn more about this thing you just did' menu - you can't one-button your way back to the game, you have to press "B" for "Back" like 4 or 5 times, retracing through the menu tree, before you return to the game (unlike with the map - two button pushes to get in, one button push to get out). Oh, and I seem to be confused over the cinematic camera - I thought you could just press "A" and you could 'watch a journey with your controller down', but everytime I try to do that the horse just slows down and stops of its own volition, so I don't know what's going on there. Similarly, there have been times when I've been prompted to "RT to Aim" (when Aim is Left Trigger) ... this is one of those 'getting used to the control scheme' snaffus, because it must be a gentle half-press or tap to do so, as I accidentally shot a guard I was bargaining with (I had to kill him in the end "I thought we had a deal!" he yelped). Left Button unholsters/holsters your weapon, then it's Left Trigger for Aim (because when holstered Left Trigger gives you contextual chat with the NPCs - greet/antagonise/threaten/bargain/etc). So it does feel as if there's too many commands, not enough buttons at times. Now - back to the good stuff (of which there is a bounty). The weaving of cinematic moments into the actual gameplay works wonderfully. Long gone are the days when you'd come out of a conspicuous cinematic sequence and be facing the wrong damn way getting shot in the back (as in other games I've played, at least). Now it flows smoothly. Random events are interesting - when one of our gang (a lady of ill repute) needed assistance with a rowdy customer, I had to go to Room 2B, but figured I'd just have a look at the other doors - I busted into 2A and a man was taking a dump in the commode. He panicked and screamed for me to get out, grumbling about no sense of privacy. One annoying one saw me attempt to help a man being menaced by two O'Driscoll scumbags. I punched them both out but I must have interceded too slow as the man I sought to help was dead. I looted the bodies (always loot the bodies for free stuff like supplies and money and ammo) but accidentally picked up the poor victim - which a bystander saw and thought I'd murdered the man! WTF?!?!?! Off he runs, so I chase him to try and intimidate him, but he hoofs it into the bank and as he's telling a guard I accidentally punch the guard out and get a bounty on my head. So I had to spunk $40 up the wall to clear my name at the local post office! Grrrr! Top Tip - at Arthur's bed area in the camp, make sure you assign winter clothing to your horse (so when you return to a cold area you can change clothes into something more suitable and not freeze to death). It's still all very new and fresh, of course, so there's a lot still to get into and understand and feel comfortable with (muscle memory, understanding the navigation of menus and sub-menus, getting used to the myriad food/drink/tonics/potions for you and your horse and how to access them etc).

[shootemindehead]

Neil's going to hate you.

[bassman]

I agree with pretty much all of that. I also don’t seem to be connecting with the Arthur character as much as I had for John in the first game, but that could change as the story goes.

[MinionZombie]

Starting to get the hang of the controls a little bit more, but there's still a lot of detail to get into. I discovered that you get a horse brush through a mission (where you are introduced to the stables mechanic - buying, selling, and storing horses), so that's one mystery solved. The health and stamina meters are a smidge confusing. You've got an outer line as well as an inner core, and I don't really understand why or what for, and I assume it's bad to have a red core even though you've got a full white line, but I don't know why. Seems needlessly complex. Another thing that doesn't help when learning the ropes is NPCs talking extensively while you're trying to read the instructions in the top left!!! Again, this is a minor gripe, but damn, weren't the people designing these moments thinking about that stuff? Did no play tester pipe up and say "hey, maybe pausing the action - or at least having NPCs shut the fudge up - while the instructions are on screen, would be a good idea?" I took Arthur to the hotel and had a bath for 50 cents, and then for another 50 cents you can have a lady come in and wash you - and fun detail is being able to chit chat with her (or you can say no talking). Another random encounter of sorts was me entering a room in which a cowboy was about to entertain a lady, I excused myself, but then went in again to mess with him, at which point he stormed out after me and started a fight - he lost. Apparently if you get drunk there are some funny interactions to be had in the saloons, so I must try that out, and I've read that if Arthur hasn't slept in a while he'll appear somewhat tired and groggy - slumped shoulders and such. I know what you mean about Arthur, at this stage anyway, because he doesn't quite have a clear outlook yet. John Marston (good to see him back in this game in a younger incarnation) had a clear want and need - he wanted to just step away from the life and be with his family, but he needed to help the government track down the remaining gang members in order to do it. With Arthur it's not quite clear yet what he wants and needs. That said, the various personalities in the camp add a sense of community that you don't usually get in these games, a little family of sorts, so that's nice. Subtle details, like when you first go to the town of Valentine and take the ladies along with you - they're singing in the back of the cart, but one of them gets the lyrics wrong and they all break up giggling - little moments like that add so much life into the world, you know? Another nice aspect is team work - if you're accompanied during a mission you can choose to take the lead or delegate tasks to the tagalong NPCs. - - - Updated - - - Continuing to find my feet with the game. There are some quite cinematic moments that spring up on you, for instance - in an early mission centering around the gang member Micah:   You go to an idylic town and end up having to busy Micah out of jail - you shoot your way through the town, but in-so doing you incur a wanted level in that county (if you go back to the town within a certain time you'll get in trouble, but also if you stay within the red borders of the county you'll suddenly find yourself shooting back at bounty hunters at random times (this happened to me on my way across the border). Anyway, prior to that me and Micah head out of town and loose the law from the town. As we're having a conversation, in which Micah is talking about not returning to Dutch and the camp just yet because he's been a "bad boy", it was now night time and a storm was brewing - big streaks of lightning way off in the distance. Very moody. Another early mission, this time involving gang member Lenny, was hilarious:   To cheer him up I take him to town for a drink - or several - and we end up getting absolutely hammered. Hijinks ensue which had me chuckling away. Barging in on a courtesan riding cowboy atop a, well, cowboy, was a surprise ... as was the impromptu moment of Can-Can dancing. You also see the big burly man you beat to a pulp in the previous encounter in that very saloon. I think you're supposed to keep "greeting" him as I didn't check that box on the mission debrief - the mission 'challenges' part, I mean. Anyway, that was a fun mission. There's some surprising moments of moral quandary, too. One side quest involves you acting as the muscle for one of your gang's money lending side business - so you have to go and shake people down for the money they owe. Now, while one guy might be an asshole you don't mind chasing down, another guy couldn't speak English and was pleading with me as he didn't have the money. He consented to me taking valuables from the house, but was guarding a particular drawer - it had a gold wedding ring inside - now, I'd already found some silver earrings elsewhere so the debt was recouped, but I opted not to take the ring as I felt sorry for the guy. Another random encounter involved lawmen taking a prisoner to jail in a horse-drawn prison cart, but he was pleading with me ... I wasn't sure what to do, could it be something more sinister? So I murdered the lawmen (negative impact to my reputation meter), but freed the prisoner who turned out to, yes, be a thief, but he alerts me to the house robbery mechanic ... so I wonder if that mechanic might not have been unlocked if I'd just let him go ... hmmm. Ironically I got a good impact on my rep meter from freeing him, lol! Speaking of rep - top tip: be cordial with people all over the place. Some nice "greet" chit-chat actually ups your rep. I'm on the high end of the grey area, right now. Better rep gives you discounts and such, I think, and less trouble. It's also wise to check various rooms inside buildings to find little bits and pieces, health tonics and the like, maybe some money or collectibles. Another nifty detail I liked was a simple thing, but one which I've wanted to see fully implemented for a long time - the ability to see through windows (i.e. from outside to inside or vice versa). Indoors feels more connected with outdoors as a result.

[bassman]

Has there been any talk from Rockstar about doing another Undead Nightmare? While playing just now I was thinking that they could do some interesting survival things with this new scavaging and management system.

[MinionZombie]

Really enjoying the game and I've settled into the controls fairly well now, so I'm more at ease with the game. There's so many groovy little details here and there. One example would be this - I was tasked with hijacking a cart of fuel oil and stashing it by a burned out cabin. I noticed the cabin had a ladder going down into a cellar, so went down and raided it - and by complete chance I noticed a small mark on one of the wooden shelves - an arrow - so I followed it to the other side of the cellar (near the ladder) and found in the wall a hidden stash with like $50 inside IIRC. Such a neat little detail that you could so easily miss, but if you happen upon it there's a little reward - fantastic. The camp has turned out to be a great addition as you really get to know all the different characters (as long as you talk to them, of course!). Upgrading the camp itself doesn't have as many visual changes as I would have liked, but it's still good to feel like you're helping provide for the group (and that they, too, chip into the pot!) I rescued one of our gang and that night at camp there was a big shindig, so you go around drinking and singing and dancing with the camp folks, then dawn comes up and people are hungover and sleepy hehe. I then spent the rest of the following day debriefing from the night before, hehe. It's also nice to see John Marston, Abigail, and their boy Jack as members of the gang as you get much more of a sense of their relationship, at least at this point about 12 years prior to RDR, anyway. In fact it's nice to just wander around and talk to the likes of Mary-Beth and Karen and Uncle and so on, just to see what's going on with them. There's lots of little mini subplots going on with interpersonal things that are really nice touches. Has there been any talk from Rockstar about doing another Undead Nightmare? While playing just now I was thinking that they could do some interesting survival things with this new scavaging and management system. No talk as yet as far as I know. They're probably focusing on the online aspect right now before it launches in a few weeks, and then after that there'll surely be the PC port to think about - but maybe connected with that, or at least after it maybe?

[kidgloves]

Fantastic game. 31 hours clocked already. On the auto travel cinematic A button thing, it works outside of a mission journey. I guess they want your attention on missions as a lot of the narrative is imparted that way

[MinionZombie]

Fantastic game. 31 hours clocked already. On the auto travel cinematic A button thing, it works outside of a mission journey. I guess they want your attention on missions as a lot of the narrative is imparted that way Ohhhhhh... - it was set up a bit confusingly in the opening hours of the game, so I didn't get that it was only for 'non-mission' moments. I tried that out and sure enough. I've now entered Chapter 3. Just when I was needing a change of scenery, bam, I get one, and it's cool to see the subtle changes in the environment. I'm now further south on the map - so it's a mix of lush green and dark dirts, but also swirling winds of dust, and southern hicks and all sorts. Suffice it to say, I'm thoroughly into this game now, including the character of Arthur Morgan who is becoming a bit more fleshed-out now ... but he has to be somewhat withdrawn as you, as the player, needs to insert yourself into that role as well. There needs to be room to let the player fill Arthur's boots as well, but with various missions along the way so far we've been picking away at that aspect nicely. I also like how you can return to locations and more events will transpire. For example, there's a cabin north of Strawberry that is one of the home robbery scenarios, but I went there alone and there's this cranky old bag of a woman who thinks I'm there to deliver stolen goods - but I'm not. Behind her back I steal a bunch of stuff and get a new shotgun down in the cellar. She gets pissed off and I let her ride away on her donkey to 'get her boys'. A while later I returned to the location and voices were coming from inside - her sons had arrived - I go to the door, get knocked back, and it's into Dead Eye mode. I slaughter the entire family of thieves and loot the place once again. Similarly, there's a house being built a little south west of Valentine. Three beats of that story involve defending the place, then picking up some wood for the place (you can go get the wood yourself from the lumber mill - another location with multiple events - and pay $75 for the wood), then you return once more and get your share of the sale ($150). These things make the world breathe and feel more real, as if it's living while you're not watching, you know? I've only had a handful of 'spell breaking', as-it-were, such as the repetition of an event outside of Strawberry where some traveller has got himself lost and I need to lead him back to Strawberry. He mentions some mystery regarding the mayor's wife, but I've not figured out anything about that subplot yet. Not sure how that plays out or when, or how to initiate it.

[MinionZombie]

Wow ... so I'm about 100 hours deep now and I've just completed Chapter 6... CHAPTER 6 ENDING TALK - SPOILERS AHEAD!   Holy moly ... I'd grown so attached to Arthur Morgan, but at least I got the High Honour Good ending where he dies looking at the sunrise. Now, apparently you do eventually get 'your' stuff back at some point during the two Epilogues - so all your/Arthur's collectibles and weapons and such can be reclaimed - but it's a little gutwrenching when you take over as John ... ... but in some ways it's kind of like a precursor to RDR1 and it's like a bonus game, a game-after-the-game, more story left to tell. Another thing that really got me was the death of my horse in the climactic moments just before you flee up that rocky mountain. I'd had that horse throughout the entire game, so when he's actually shot and dies - and when Arthur lovingly whispers "thank you" into his ear - man ... the first course in a major feels meal that was to come! The way Rockstar have managed to get the player to be emotionally invested in the various members of the Van Der Linde gang is incredible. If you spend the time with them in camp, talking to them, sitting around the campfire, paying attention to the story missions etc, you really get hooked in. The main thing missing in RDR1 was a sense of context - you were tasked with tracking down the remaining members of the gang (or the bad ones at least), but you didn't really have the backstory to get invested in ... however, RDR2 provides that context and backstory in spades. It's an epic, a masterpiece, and it breathes new life into the story of RDR1, injecting so much tragedy and betrayal into the events of the 2010 game.

[Neil]

Sorry... Can we close this thread.... Until it's out on PC?

[shootemindehead]

It's gas... Every time I see and update to this thread that has Neil on it, I know there's a 90% chance that it will have the letters P and C in it.

[MinionZombie]

The insane amount of detail in this game is ... well ... insane. There's a whole bunch that I've found and seen along the way - but it feels like I've only scratched the surface. I've seen videos online showing little things like a ghost train and a 'vampire' in Saint Denis. Hell, even when shopkeepers reference recent events - or recognise you (sometimes commenting on your changing appearance) - adds to the immersion! The amount of thought Rockstar has put into this game is mind boggling, no wonder if took 7 years to make - but it was well worth the time, that's for sure! Sorry... Can we close this thread.... Until it's out on PC? Tough titties. Don't like it? Don't clicky. Seriously, though, when you do get to play it I think you'll have a lot of fun. It's gas... Every time I see and update to this thread that has Neil on it, I know there's a 90% chance that it will have the letters P and C in it.

[kidgloves]

This game is a masterpiece. A piece of multimedia art. I kid you not.

[MinionZombie]

This game is a masterpiece. A piece of multimedia art. I kid you not. Damn straight. It deserves to win all the awards. How far through the story are you? Use "spoiler tags" on here. I finished Epilogue II - and therefore the entire story mode - the other day. So far I've pumped about 120 hours into this game and there's still areas of the map I've not been to yet. I think I've pretty much done all the strangers and I certainly did all the side missions and story missions, so now it's about exploration and just enjoying the world, mopping up any bounties or stagecoach tip-offs and such. I'm using some video guides to track down certain details or achievements, such as the one for visiting the graves of every one of your fallen comrades - even including the two who die at the very beginning/just before the game gets going. Anyway, masterful storytelling and characterisation in this game. I found myself really attached to the characters and it works wonderfully well if you put the time in to talk to everyone in the camp and notice those little details along the way, but even then there'll be little details you might miss (two of the folks in the camp were having a fling and I never knew about it - I only found out when browsing through YouTube videos and saw it play out there, haha!) Sometimes it's nice to go into first person mode during a conversation with someone - there's all these nice little details in their facial expressions that you don't get so much in third person (although, clearly, third person is the way to go generally). But in those still, quiet moments, I just realised the other day that it's nice to sit and talk with a character in 1st person mode. Now ... off to find more of these bizarre little hidden details!