TWD 5x01 "No Sanctuary" episode discussion (Season 5 Premiere)... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[MinionZombie]

Neil - all Carol had to wash was her face and hair. She was wearing a smock/poncho that had all the guts on it. A nearby stream - get that mud out of your hair and off your face - bingo, just a quick spritz. On the subject of Shane - he went too far, too fast, and for the wrong reasons. Rick may have made decisions that compromised the safety of the group and in a round about way led to some death, however those decisions were important to make. Shane just cut and run from his humanity at the drop of a hat (albeit after a desperate moment with a mind on keeping Carl alive). Rick on the other hand has always fought back against the moral decay, as have his fellow survivors (to various degrees and levels of compromise), but because of that they now have a good moral approximation for this awful world they're in. They're not monsters and think primarily of the survival of the group as a whole, but they're capable of being monsters to project themselves and their family ("family" by blood or by survival). Shane would have undoubtedly turned out like a Termite/Termian had he been with them at Terminus. Gareth made that same sort of 'switch' to survive and has become a monster ... he's a clerk in a factory of institutionalised violence and cannibalism. Aye - noticed the blonde guy from 4x04. Knew he wouldn't be around for long as he's now in Gotham, but it was good to have him in there for the recognition and to close that little gap in the story from many episodes prior. It's someone we know - who Rick knows - and they die in the blink of an eye. Obviously our guys had to survive, that's no way for them to go out, so it's a little bit of morbid fun to have that tension and last minute salvation - twice no less - for Glenn. Poor bugger must have been crapping himself! DaytotheZ - I'll have to go back and check that last little bit. *runs off to check* Yep, you're right - there is more growth over the sign. Not loads, but some. I'm not sure what type of plant that is - I remember there being something called 'kudzu' on that mechanic's garage when Daryl, Tyreese, Michonne, and Bob went on a medicine run (which grows very fast apparently), so the amount of time that's passed might not be too long, but certainly a gap in time. Good spot there! I wonder if those "X" marks in circles were there when Rick & Co walked through those same woods...

[shootemindehead]

Neil - all Carol had to wash was her face and hair. She was wearing a smock/poncho that had all the guts on it. A nearby stream - get that mud out of your hair and off your face - bingo, just a quick spritz. This is partly why I hate the whole smell business. To neutralise the dead, all one has to do is issue each character with a plastic poncho smeared with guts. It's too easy (and dumber than a bag of bricks). If any of you have smelt death, you'll know that it's a stench that'll overpower any unwashed human with the greatest of ease. So, with that physical truism, a human with or without zombie guts attached could walk with the dead and still remain invisible if they refrain from freaking out. On the subject of Shane - he went too far, too fast, and for the wrong reasons. Rick may have made decisions that compromised the safety of the group and in a round about way led to some death, however those decisions were important to make. Rick's decisions may not always have been entirely successful, but his reasoning was generally sound and with a focus on the betterment of the whole group. Shane's decision making was based on what was best for him. It's Rick's altruism that makes his leadership important and his general trustworthiness that would keep people loyal. The acid test for each character is whom you would have watching your back. Rick wins that race every single time.[/quote] Gareth made that same sort of 'switch' to survive and has become a monster ... he's a clerk in a factory of institutionalised violence and cannibalism. I really liked the flashback to the Termites before Rick and Co arrive. Gareth is a great villain. Not a cliched monster, but an average bloke, who has been warped into the administrator of an appalling creation. I'd actually like to see more of the Termites in this series.

[DayoftheZ]

It was an interesting group because as we saw from the Termite that Tyreese took out and the two dishing out justice with the baseball bat, they all have a similar outlook. It looked like Gareth took a bullet but I am sure he is out there somewhere regrouping just so Rick can deal with him with efficiency. Is it just me or was it a shame that we didn’t get to see Mary torn to shreds by the walkers. I know we saw the face bite / throat bite earlier but I would like to see more “Walker tear ups” in the series.

[Neil]

Neil - all Carol had to wash was her face and hair. She was wearing a smock/poncho that had all the guts on it. A nearby stream - get that mud out of your hair and off your face - bingo, just a quick spritz. Yerp... Time to do hair and face is right up there on the important list when the $hit's hitting the fan like that. People potentially getting chowed on by zombies? Sorry, I need to do my face and hair! Hmmm...

[Moon Knight]

C'mon, guys, Rosita made wolverine claws! How cool is that?! Great episode and everything I wanted to say has already been said. It's amazing this episode really had everything. From blood and guts, to Rambo like action, horror and suspense, to emotional tugs that I'm not afraid to admit I experienced. Bravo.

[Andy]

So none of you like my little observation? well screw you all. im going to start my own zombie tv series based on a comic... with blackjack and hookers.

[AcesandEights]

So none of you like my little observation? well screw you all. im going to start my own zombie tv series based on a comic... with blackjack and hookers. I assumed your post contained grousing over Carol and general butthurtedness (that's the technical term) over her still being a part of the cast But yes, generally I agree with the point you made in spoilers, though I think it was a matter of the production staff writing themselves into various corners and not purposeful at the time.

[MoonSylver]

So none of you like my little observation? well screw you all. im going to start my own zombie tv series based on a comic... with blackjack and hookers. You add whiskey & blow to that equation & I am SO down with that.

[Moon Knight]

So none of you like my little observation? well screw you all. im going to start my own zombie tv series based on a comic... with blackjack and hookers. Actually, I had thought about that before. Makes perfect sense to have them switch roles at this point.

[Neil]

So none of you like my little observation? well screw you all. im going to start my own zombie tv series based on a comic... with blackjack and hookers. I didn't dare read it due to your comic book spoiler warning...

[MinionZombie]

Yeah, I do agree there's been a switching of roles essentially. Carol kicks arse in the TV show! Her character has had a hell of a journey and has had some of the most interesting developments.

[Wyldwraith]

Re: The discussion of Rick's morality as it pertains to his leadership and decision-making. The problem with Rick until recently was that his decisions didn't just happen to lead to deaths now and again, as if they were bad breaks/bad luck. Many times his insistence on adhering as closely as possible to a pre-apocalyptic moral standard lead to FORESEEABLE casualties. Example: (As I've stated before) His decision to take Daryl, T-Dog and Glenn and go back for Merle. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would have realized that stripping the camp of all but one of their primary combatants (Shane) would leave the group VERY vulnerable if trouble erupted while Rick & Co. were absent. Other than Ed and Amy (who died as a result of surprise attacks by Walkers) nearly all the casualties stemmed from the willy-nilly chaos that seized the group once they realized they were under attack. Rick and Daryl's presence could quite easily have become a point for the survivors to rally around and organize much sooner than actually happened. Had Rick been focused on the group's well-being as a whole he probably would have still gone back into Atlanta, but it would've been to quickly secure the bag of guns he'd left behind and then GTFO. As it actually transpired, their search efforts for Merle took time....and that delay lead to a great many Walkers being stirred up. Which in turn lead to their needing to hatch a convoluted plan to secure the guns. A plan that lead directly to Glenn being kidnapped, and everything that transpired as a result of that kidnapping. Specifically: The extended delay before they worked things out with the Vatos gave Merle (or whoever stole their truck) the opportunity to leave them stranded, forcing them to return to the camp on foot. The tragic results of that sequence we all know too well. Yet the bottom line was this: Choosing to prioritize going back for Merle over the safety of the group as a whole created an easily foreseeable increase in danger to the group if a conflict erupted while Rick/Daryl/Glenn were absent. Or how about the situation with Herschel's barn full of Walkers. Rick was in the process of playing ball Herschel's way, what with herding them via catchpole into the barn and all. The Walking Dead-oriented episode of Mythbusters established the FACT that if even 25% of the Walkers already in the barn (and realize Mythbusters test-barn was constructed of brand-new wood) started trying to force their way out of the barn in earnest the barn door wouldn't have held. Even if you leave real-world fact out of that story-situation, Shane was dead right that the barn full of Walkers comprised a clear and present danger to the group. Rick's choice to go along with Herschel's way of handling Walkers exposed the group to increased risk of attack WHEN (NOT if) the Walkers eventually either broke out, or overwhelmed those handling Walkers on catchpoles as they tried to put them in the barn. These are just a couple examples of a long-running pattern of Rick's behavior. A leader who was honoring the trust their people put in them by following said leader simply wouldn't consistently make decisions that exposed their people to unnecessary perils. Upholding a pre-apocalyptic moral code ISN'T JUSTIFIABLE when adherence to that code endangers people you've accepted the responsibility of keeping safe. It sounds strange, but Rick's often altruistic decision-making was really quite selfish. Rick exposed his people numerous times to unnecessary danger so he could keep his conscience clean. That doesn't hold water for me. One of the sacrifices a true leader makes is the luxury of a clear conscience. Sometimes it's necessary to do something VERY WRONG for VERY RIGHT reasons. That said, I'm already impressed by the growth of the Rick character this season towards something that rings far truer to the world they inhabit. FINALLY, Rick seems to have turned the corner of comprehension regarding what it really means to lead during the apocalypse. Shane's motivations were very often wrong, but many of the actions he took for questionable reasons were right. Re: Sacrificing Otis: Shane got damned a lot for this particular act, but let's remember he offered to give Otis the bags and stay behind as a delaying action so Otis could return with the medical supplies. Otis didn't believe he'd be able to make it, and said as much. Shane had to choose between doing the moral thing and going down with Otis as they fought to the last to survive and perished, dooming Carl...or he could do what he did. Again, Shane's motivations were highly questionable, but his actions were quite rational in that setting. Until now, Rick just didn't seem to comprehend that sometimes the sacrifice you make for the good of your people is an unclouded conscience. Some may disagree with me, but I maintain that if you consciously accept responsibility for the safety of people looking to you for leadership, their needs MUST outweigh your own needs. And again, that includes a leader's peace of mind. I'm very interested to see how Rick will handle things moving forward now that he's stared into the abyss of inhuman evil that is Terminus. If the premier was anything to go by, we're going to soon see Rick making those moral sacrifices for the good of the group,...and the personal cost those sacrifices will exact from him. When the interplay of character behavior is just as interesting as the overarching story, a show is very much on the right track. Gimple deserves all the praise he's receiving IMHO.

[Trancelikestate]

Apparently this weeks easter egg was the crate from creepshow though it did not look aged enough or have enough blood. It could have looked way better. It might have actually been noticeable then.

[Andy]

Re: The discussion of Rick's morality as it pertains to his leadership and decision-making. The problem with Rick until recently was that his decisions didn't just happen to lead to deaths now and again, as if they were bad breaks/bad luck. Many times his insistence on adhering as closely as possible to a pre-apocalyptic moral standard lead to FORESEEABLE casualties. Example: (As I've stated before) His decision to take Daryl, T-Dog and Glenn and go back for Merle. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would have realized that stripping the camp of all but one of their primary combatants (Shane) would leave the group VERY vulnerable if trouble erupted while Rick & Co. were absent. Other than Ed and Amy (who died as a result of surprise attacks by Walkers) nearly all the casualties stemmed from the willy-nilly chaos that seized the group once they realized they were under attack. Rick and Daryl's presence could quite easily have become a point for the survivors to rally around and organize much sooner than actually happened. Had Rick been focused on the group's well-being as a whole he probably would have still gone back into Atlanta, but it would've been to quickly secure the bag of guns he'd left behind and then GTFO. As it actually transpired, their search efforts for Merle took time....and that delay lead to a great many Walkers being stirred up. Which in turn lead to their needing to hatch a convoluted plan to secure the guns. A plan that lead directly to Glenn being kidnapped, and everything that transpired as a result of that kidnapping. Specifically: The extended delay before they worked things out with the Vatos gave Merle (or whoever stole their truck) the opportunity to leave them stranded, forcing them to return to the camp on foot. The tragic results of that sequence we all know too well. Yet the bottom line was this: Choosing to prioritize going back for Merle over the safety of the group as a whole created an easily foreseeable increase in danger to the group if a conflict erupted while Rick/Daryl/Glenn were absent. Or how about the situation with Herschel's barn full of Walkers. Rick was in the process of playing ball Herschel's way, what with herding them via catchpole into the barn and all. The Walking Dead-oriented episode of Mythbusters established the FACT that if even 25% of the Walkers already in the barn (and realize Mythbusters test-barn was constructed of brand-new wood) started trying to force their way out of the barn in earnest the barn door wouldn't have held. Even if you leave real-world fact out of that story-situation, Shane was dead right that the barn full of Walkers comprised a clear and present danger to the group. Rick's choice to go along with Herschel's way of handling Walkers exposed the group to increased risk of attack WHEN (NOT if) the Walkers eventually either broke out, or overwhelmed those handling Walkers on catchpoles as they tried to put them in the barn. These are just a couple examples of a long-running pattern of Rick's behavior. A leader who was honoring the trust their people put in them by following said leader simply wouldn't consistently make decisions that exposed their people to unnecessary perils. Upholding a pre-apocalyptic moral code ISN'T JUSTIFIABLE when adherence to that code endangers people you've accepted the responsibility of keeping safe. It sounds strange, but Rick's often altruistic decision-making was really quite selfish. Rick exposed his people numerous times to unnecessary danger so he could keep his conscience clean. That doesn't hold water for me. One of the sacrifices a true leader makes is the luxury of a clear conscience. Sometimes it's necessary to do something VERY WRONG for VERY RIGHT reasons. That said, I'm already impressed by the growth of the Rick character this season towards something that rings far truer to the world they inhabit. FINALLY, Rick seems to have turned the corner of comprehension regarding what it really means to lead during the apocalypse. Shane's motivations were very often wrong, but many of the actions he took for questionable reasons were right. Re: Sacrificing Otis: Shane got damned a lot for this particular act, but let's remember he offered to give Otis the bags and stay behind as a delaying action so Otis could return with the medical supplies. Otis didn't believe he'd be able to make it, and said as much. Shane had to choose between doing the moral thing and going down with Otis as they fought to the last to survive and perished, dooming Carl...or he could do what he did. Again, Shane's motivations were highly questionable, but his actions were quite rational in that setting. Until now, Rick just didn't seem to comprehend that sometimes the sacrifice you make for the good of your people is an unclouded conscience. Some may disagree with me, but I maintain that if you consciously accept responsibility for the safety of people looking to you for leadership, their needs MUST outweigh your own needs. And again, that includes a leader's peace of mind. I'm very interested to see how Rick will handle things moving forward now that he's stared into the abyss of inhuman evil that is Terminus. If the premier was anything to go by, we're going to soon see Rick making those moral sacrifices for the good of the group,...and the personal cost those sacrifices will exact from him. When the interplay of character behavior is just as interesting as the overarching story, a show is very much on the right track. Gimple deserves all the praise he's receiving IMHO. Wyld, I genuinely mean this.. I look forward to your posts just as much as the episodes themselves. Always a pleasure to read! Dont leave

[Staredge]

Also the most accurate firework in the world was a tad silly With propane, it doesn't have to be accurate. In fact, had it hit the tank at the opening and went off, it might not have lit it up. Every gas has a particular mix of fuel/air that it burns at. Too much gas/not enough air, and you can put out a match with it. Now the fact that the tank wouldn't have exploded like that, well, that's a discussion we can have. (actually, having the spray light off like a flamethrower would have been pretty cool as well) The only thing that bugged be was how she obviously had enough time to chuck in a quick shower and change of clothes before she met up with the group! Good idea though. Coming in all zombie-ed up seems like a good way to get a bullet to the brainpan.