Religion/Occultism/Mysticism, etc.

[Danny]

What Mike said I dont believe in any gods, religions etc. I went to a church of england school till I was 11 & because it was drilled into me from an early age I did believe in it all as a child, but once into my teens & even more so as an adult when I began to experience & learn more about life & the world, I just made my own mind up & I stick to science & evolution. Thats not to say I dont believe in doing good things & even living by some of the christian rules because in their stripped down state they are the basic requirements for a civilised society, but I dont believe it all comes from gods in the clouds & that theres a heaven & a hell & all that other jargon, thats just nonsense to me, I just believe that these rules were thought up to try & tame the savages back in the olden days, and putting a god to it put fear into people which helped them stick to the rules. I dont doubt Jesus existed either, he was probably a man with good morals & a decent storyteller, but thats all, no son of god or miracle working. All these celebrity religions that have popped up since the latter half of last century make me laugh as well, like madonnas favourite "kabbalah" or that fruitloop "scientology" that the hollywood set all feel they have to be part of, all it proves is how easy it is to make up a religion & to get gullible people to follow it! i remember at school our headmaster would speak from the bible every assembly in the mornings, and i was always thinking "this is the man in charge of my education and he's talking about magic and beings in the sky watching us, this guys crazy!" and to be honest thats what religion is, i have yet to see any proof of the supernatural, i think its a coping mechanism. the bleak truth that we are random results of chance, biological machines in an ecosystem that live, die and then break down and feed other organisms and so on, is pretty damn depressing to some people. i think religion sprang up as the sort of failsafe to keep people sane. but ive always figured it doesnt matter at all. some people need religion to make them get out of bed in the morning, regardless of which imaginary thing they pray to i see no proof for it. its all fantasy, but luckily ive never grown up being told to believe in something, so why should i care what people believe in? and i truthfully dont. ive got friends who staunchely believe in various religions and ive said "how is any of these miracles you talk of more realistic than something from harry potter?" and we joke and laugh because we know both is absolutely sure that the other is wrong, but it doesnt change what cant change, people are people and believe what they choose, but i always found it odd that the teacher spent every week reading what he believed was word from his god, but never once tried to enforce his belief on anyone else. in that respect he was a standup guy. he was also a dick of a history teacher.

[kortick]

I always found that people who claim to be 'Satanists' but yet do not beleive that Satan exists to be the ultimate in incongruity. I know people who actually met Anton LaVey, and they were not impressed by him at all. And having read his works I do not think highly of him or his philopshies which are watered down tenants of Nietzchian ideas of existentialism and nihilism. Also having known true Satanists who do beleive in the being known as Lucifer as a real entity take great offense at LaVey using the name of Satan to sell books and promote his ideas. LaVey is considered a joke in the true occult circles. He is hardly the first to espouse the values he does, but is indeed the only one to attribute his 'teachings' to his version of Satan. The only way you could be born a Satanist, who doesnt beleive Satan exists, is if you were deprived oxygen at birth. I doubt this was the case with you. As much as you may seem to think, this isnt meant to be an insult on you. LaVey was good at stealing other peoples ideas and passing them off as his own. If his writings give you some benefit or bring anything positive to your life then I am glad for that. But you are no means practising occultism or Satanism. compare LaVeys words to the defintion of existentialism: 'Existentialism stresses that people are entirely free and therefore responsible for what they make of themselves.' His works and the works of others written long before him bear too much similarity.

[capncnut]

As much as you may seem to think, this isnt meant to be an insult on you. I think anyone who has studied LaVey and all forms of satanism in depth couldn't be truly offended by what you have posted, Paul. It was one of the things that pushed me into Crowley, if I'm honest. But I think Anton threw in enough original wise words in The Satanic Bible to warrant inspection. Also, the book is responsible for empowering and informing a lot of people, turning them away from the sheer inhuman farce that the Christian bible is, so that can only be good right?

[krakenslayer]

I think the fact that this thread hasn't disintegrated into a free-for-all civil war between LeVeyan Satanists, Theistic Satanists, Catholic Christians, Protestant Christians, Theists, Pantheists, Atheists and Agnostics is a testament to the maturity of all involved. Well done guys. You give me hope for the future of HPotD!

[Danny]

I think the fact that this thread hasn't disintegrated into a free-for-all civil war between LeVeyan Satanists, Theistic Satanists, Catholic Christians, Protestant Christians, Theists, Pantheists, Atheists and Agnostics is a testament to the maturity of all involved. Well done guys. You give me hope for the future of HPotD! if it makes it to a 4th page without a flame someone may have div'd by zero and we all died and the island is hell and the smoke monster is a cloud of nanites.

[JDFP]

Okie dokie... I've got some time to spare before opening up my twelve pack of Milwaukee's Best, so here goes, since a few folks asked for it... Warning before you read this folks, these are my personal thoughts/ideas on things, I'm not telling you how to live your life or base your own ideas/beliefs. That's for all people to individually do themselves. I would not intentionally offend anyone here, as I respect all mature people here, but I will be clear in my thoughts... The notion of "turning the other cheek" doesn't mean: "Hey, if someone screws you over, it's all good, man! Just ignore it and let them keep doing it!". That's childish. And those who argue against Christian ideology on limited understanding of study of the faith and ideas are arguing in a childish arena. To be honest, I can respect Atheists that attack Christianity and religion in general on a mature well-considered basis (Alfred North Whitehead is one of these people). But, when they attack it on interpretations they have of scripture that are not accurate hermeneutic readings into it I just want to vomit. An example would be Bertrand Russell who gave a speech back in the day that became: "Why I Am Not A Christian" -- anyone who has studied theology for a good solid year could rip his reasons apart as being weak, silly, and just pitiful. And this man was a professor at some of the finest colleges/universities in the world! This man ascribed to some amazing mathematical and scientific principles in his life, I respect him for some of his ideas, but when it came to waiving aside Christian ideology it was good enough for him to do it on an elementary and unenlightened level of his false interpretations of it. That's a slap in the face of reasoning. Anyway, I'm really digressing... I can get into more of that later. I was talking about the whole "Turn the other cheek" thing. What it means is that if someone wrongs you, than you should be willing to forgive the person the indiscretion. It doesn't mean don't defend yourself if someone is literally punching you on the cheek or screwing around with your girlfriend/wife. It means that you must be willing to forgive the individual the transgressions they impose upon you. Turning the other cheek is turning your heart back to the person with a spirit of forgiveness with the person who has wronged you. The problem with scriptural study, and a great deal of Christianity in general (as I'm sure this is a problem with any other form or religion as well, but I'm not as well versed in them enough to intelligently speak of them) is that people want to read a passage and say: "Oh, this is what that means..." without properly understanding the message, the hermeneutics of the language, the development of said culture within the time period that it happened. Great folly is not the fault of the message, but of the messenger wanting to take his/her own interpretation of it without understanding the nature of it. The greatest threat to religion is not people outside of the faith who do not ascribe to the theology/philosophical grounding of the faith, but those within the faith who want to make their own flawed bases of belief from something that was never intended to be taken in a certain way. This is the crux of what created Protestantism for example. Someone else mentioned that ignorance is the problem, and to a great degree, it is. As a Catholic myself, and I am only speaking from my perspective myself, I don't have time to concern myself with the ideas of Heaven and Hell, what happens to my soul after I die happens. I don't concern myself with silly little 'really good feelings in my gut' about God and faith and some of that more willy-washy notions of "oh, it's all love!". It's not about love, it's about sacrifice. Christ once stated that he had come to bring a sword upon families, upon all through his actions. The person who says that Christianity is all about love and feeling good about "The big guy with the white-beard and the Charlton Heston booming-voice in the sky and all that fantasy stuff about Heaven" -- that's the person who is ignorant and espousing thoughts on something they don't truly understand. And I'd say the vast majority of these people are Christians that don't even truly understand their own faith, and sometimes of no fault of their own because that was the way they were always taught. This is the arguing of a Theology based upon elementary ideology. If I put Rahner's thoughts out there, don't hit me back with Dr. Seuss ideology. Unfortunately, all too many want to attack (or attempt to defend something on an apologetic level which they should never do unless they've had years of training like I have) with in return. Following the teachings of Christ is about sacrifice. Bonhoeffer said it best: "God bids us come die with Him." Okay... deep breath... there's more I could say, and may later say, but I'm tired for now... Must...have...beer... j.p.

[strayrider]

The weak shall inherit the yoke & the strong shall inherit the earth. Survival of the fittest. ..self-indulgent and self-important to an extreme. it's nothing more than a road map for being an insensitive, materialistic bastard. who are these "strong" people?... "Some people pack up on bottled water toilet paper and tins of soup. I stocked up on ammo, guns and items to make explosives. I can justify theft and murder by my own hands in a post apoc world by the simple fact that the government and civilization will have broken down and its now a survival of the fittest. If you think someone like me is going to go hungry while someone hordes their food supplies, you are grossly mistaken I will take what he has whether he wants to give it or not. THAT is how the world will operate under those circumstances. Right, wrong, moral, immoral or not is all up for grabs". (Khardis, Homepage of the Dead, 6-Aug-2008) Of course! -stray-

[Mike70]

"Some people pack up on bottled water toilet paper and tins of soup. I stocked up on ammo, guns and items to make explosives. I can justify theft and murder by my own hands in a post apoc world by the simple fact that the government and civilization will have broken down and its now a survival of the fittest. If you think someone like me is going to go hungry while someone hordes their food supplies, you are grossly mistaken I will take what he has whether he wants to give it or not. THAT is how the world will operate under those circumstances. Right, wrong, moral, immoral or not is all up for grabs". (Khardis, Homepage of the Dead, 6-Aug-2008) and to reiterate: BWAHAHAHAHAHA! made me choke on my coke, stray. funny how old khardis just automatically assumed he was one of the "fittest." he also seems not to realize that when you start shooting at people, a lot of them have the annoying tendency to shoot back. your reply gets a chuck award.

[SymphonicX]

I think the fact that this thread hasn't disintegrated into a free-for-all civil war between LeVeyan Satanists, Theistic Satanists, Catholic Christians, Protestant Christians, Theists, Pantheists, Atheists and Agnostics is a testament to the maturity of all involved. Well done guys. You give me hope for the future of HPotD! Fuck you Kraken. Sorry, I couldn't resist!

[krakenslayer]

Anyway, I'm really digressing... I can get into more of that later. I was talking about the whole "Turn the other cheek" thing. What it means is that if someone wrongs you, than you should be willing to forgive the person the indiscretion. It doesn't mean don't defend yourself if someone is literally punching you on the cheek or screwing around with your girlfriend/wife. It means that you must be willing to forgive the individual the transgressions they impose upon you. Turning the other cheek is turning your heart back to the person with a spirit of forgiveness with the person who has wronged you. As a committed agnostic bordering on atheist I usually fight on the other side of the battle, but I must support J-Dog on this particular point: "Turn the other cheek" is probably the most widely misunderstood concept in any religion. It is my understanding that "turning the other cheek" is almost an act of defiance towards someone who has wronged you, it's saying "I'm not afraid of you, I will not be drawn into your pettyness and I am not intimidated, look I'll even present my other cheek to prove it." Forgiveness doesn't mean you don't fight against enemies that pose a direct threat or that you let yourself be walked all over; it means not letting yourself be consumed by futile frustration, not descending into petty bickering and tit-for-tat bullshit. Basically it's all about remaining dignified and stoic in the face of adversity, about not letting your antagonist lower you to his level. That's my understanding anyway. I'm not a Christian, as I say, but I really respect that particular philosophy. Fuck you Kraken. Sorry, I couldn't resist!

[SymphonicX]

[QUOTE=krakenslayer;215610]As a committed agnostic bordering on atheist I usually fight on the other side of the battle, but I must support J-Dog on this particular point: "Turn the other cheek" is probably the most widely misunderstood concept in any religion. It is my understanding that "turning the other cheek" is almost an act of defiance towards someone who has wronged you, it's saying "I'm not afraid of you, I will not be drawn into your pettyness and I am not intimidated, look I'll even present my other cheek to prove it." Forgiveness doesn't mean you don't fight against enemies that pose a direct threat or that you let yourself be walked all over; it means not letting yourself be consumed by futile frustration, not descending into petty bickering and tit-for-tat bullshit. Basically it's all about remaining dignified and stoic in the face of adversity, about not letting your antagonist lower you to his level. That's my understanding anyway. [QUOTE] Beautifully said, agree 100%

[LoSTBoY]

Well, welcome to the board Jeffery, hope you have a good stay. I am not unfamiliar with the Satanist point of view, my friend is an active member of the CoS and if you recall a few years ago in the papers, he became the first registered Satanist in the Navy. Over the years when we get a quiet spot and a few drinks we would discuss the teachings. From what I have learned, it seems to be more of a philosophy thant a religion and although many would not realise, they go by the 7 rules of Satanism on a daily basis. Even though I go by the rules generally I'm still an agnostic at heart, too many Si-Fi films I think.

[Shadowofthedead]

consider myself christian but i dont push my beliefs off on people i dont think its right. i dont know much about the things you seak with the bible of satan nor do i have any interest in finding out. but you are you i am me and lets all not blow each the and have fun living... no point f this ost i was just bored ---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ---------- oh and middletown jeffey that place sucks there is literally nothing to do there ha middie sucks

[krakenslayer]

consider myself christian but i dont push my beliefs off on people i dont think its right. If only more religious people thought like that. I don't mind having and intellectual discussion on the topic of theology or science, but I hate it when people start trying to make me into whatever they are.

[EvilNed]

As for me, in less than 100 years the religions of man, Communism mostly, and Capitalism to a degree, have managed to murder and destroy more cultures and people (at least 100 million within Communism) than in all the history of the world combined within the religions of God. No we didn't. Everything prospers with us. Everyone's happy. Everyone. Come... Join us. We are the happy ones. (A lot of people may think I'm joking when I pull those communism things off, but Karl Marx said one thing I agree with to 100%: Religion is the opiate of the people.)