TWD 7x08 "Hearts Still Beating" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[facestabber]

Apparently Rosita has never seen the movie Silver Bullet and learnt from the potentially fatal mistake that could have happened. When fighting a "monster" it makes much more sense to make TWO bullets, not one, just in case something goes wrong. Had she had another bullet in that gun Negan's luck would have not saved him. Lol. Carl and Rosita are poor Assasins. And I love Silver Bullet. The fog scene was down right badass.

[Moon Knight]

Well, my wife only had one empty shell, geez give her a break.

[MinionZombie]

Well, my wife only had one empty shell, geez give her a break. Interesting, really, isn't it? They didn't have the means to make their own bullets - so saving the spent cases was never something they did - now they have that ability, but all their weapons had been taken away, and finding a spent shell (that also matches the weapon she found in the woods) would be a tall order. She might never have found any spent cases, so finding one was probably about as good as it would get (plus it's more dramatic for storytelling purposes). Freak things happen all the time - people have been skewered through the head by steel poles and survived with no lasting complications, or anything you see in those Russian dash cam videos - and in a show that features zombies, a tractor crushing an armoured car, a tank battle, zombies crashing through the ceiling of a supermarket, and a katana-wielding arse kicker etc, it's not as if Lucille taking the bullet is an 'out there' concept within this context.

[facestabber]

Interesting, really, isn't it? They didn't have the means to make their own bullets - so saving the spent cases was never something they did - now they have that ability, but all their weapons had been taken away, and finding a spent shell (that also matches the weapon she found in the woods) would be a tall order. She might never have found any spent cases, so finding one was probably about as good as it would get (plus it's more dramatic for storytelling purposes). Freak things happen all the time - people have been skewered through the head by steel poles and survived with no lasting complications, or anything you see in those Russian dash cam videos - and in a show that features zombies, a tractor crushing an armoured car, a tank battle, zombies crashing through the ceiling of a supermarket, and a katana-wielding arse kicker etc, it's not as if Lucille taking the bullet is an 'out there' concept within this context. The irony is they started off in small town Georgia. Pick a farm house, look in shop/barn and reloading equipment would be found regularly. Don't get me wrong, this part of the story doesn't bother me much at all. For the most part, guns and anmo have come easy. Granted ammo manufacturers are out of business, but the amount of brass, primers and bullets in the U.S are beyond plentiful.

[Moon Knight]

The bullet was also modified a bit so it could be compatible with the pistol that Rosita had aquired so maybe the performance was hindered a bit. You guys think those empty shells Heath and Tara found will ever come into play? I also remember watching a report about someone getting their head impaled on a spike and living so anything is truly possible haha.

[facestabber]

The bullet was also modified a bit so it could be compatible with the pistol that Rosita had aquired so maybe the performance was hindered a bit. You guys think those empty shells Heath and Tara found will ever come into play? I also remember watching a report about someone getting their head impaled on a spike and living so anything is truly possible haha. I think there is no doubt the performance was hindered. Can't say I have ever shot a bat but I've hit enough 2x4 to see that the bullets went through. iIrc it appeared she had a 9mm which I wanna say is 1100 fps depending on many different Bullet/powder mixes. Even under powered at that range and the way the bat stopped the bullet I'd say the bat should have bounced off Negans skull. Not fatally but that's a lot of energy to just stop

[Moon Knight]

I think there is no doubt the performance was hindered. Can't say I have ever shot a bat but I've hit enough 2x4 to see that the bullets went through. iIrc it appeared she had a 9mm which I wanna say is 1100 fps depending on many different Bullet/powder mixes. Even under powered at that range and the way the bat stopped the bullet I'd say the bat should have bounced off Negans skull. Not fatally but that's a lot of energy to just stop Not really a spoiler but in the comics the bullet chipped away at Lucille as the shot went past the target from much further away. My only real gripe about the show version but I guess we can file that in the department of disbelief.

[JDP]

Interesting, really, isn't it? They didn't have the means to make their own bullets - so saving the spent cases was never something they did - now they have that ability, but all their weapons had been taken away, and finding a spent shell (that also matches the weapon she found in the woods) would be a tall order. She might never have found any spent cases, so finding one was probably about as good as it would get (plus it's more dramatic for storytelling purposes). I'm not buying that one. Spent bullet casings would be all over the place, not hard to find at all. In the case of the gun she found, it belonged to one of the dead Saviors, which must have been used in the shoot-out they had with them by the railroad tracks. There must be several spent bullet casings from that gun in that area. Plus the gun might in fact be of the very common 9mm caliber, so bullet casings for that gun would be very easy to find elsewhere as well. She could have had Eugene make several bullets instead of just one. Too risky to rely on only one bullet for an assassination, unless you are The Man with the Golden Gun, who supposedly never misses (but 007 proved him wrong.)

[kidgloves]

Well that's a good sign. I've just become aware that TWD ISN'T on tonight and I'm absolutely gutted.

[Moon Knight]

Well that's a good sign. I've just become aware that TWD ISN'T on tonight and I'm absolutely gutted. The first Sunday is always the worst.

[facestabber]

The first Sunday is always the worst. It certainly is. With Christmas, NFL playoffs and Superbowl, AMC avoids competing with them. Frankly I'd take TWD over all that shit.

[Trin]

My nag isn't about the bullet hitting the bat. For some reason that doesn't bother me. My problem was that Rosita trusted the one bullet they made would work. I don't know a thing about making bullets, but there's no way I trust that some lying mullet headed voyeur with a recipe book can manufacture a working bullet on the first try. I'd want to test at least a half dozen of them from behind a ballistics shield before trusting that gun is going to fire when I need it to. I expect that anywhere you find a dead guy and an empty gun there are casings around. I do, however, love Rosita. She is one of the few characters channeling my rage into action. She is doing exactly what I'd be doing in the same situation. Actually, in the same situation, that's what I'd WANT to be doing. But I'd likely be more the Eugene type. Sadly. I do see lots of evidence that there are loyal Negan followers amongst the Saviors. And that's good. The storyline needed to inject some plausibility around the Saviors. Negan is a really enjoyable character. That said, I still have not seen anyone in the Saviors that I think could replace Negan and keep control if someone took him out. Thus I maintain my position from the first episode of the season - take out Negan and the Saviors fall into disarray. The infighting and power struggle would either fracture them or at least buy you enough time to establish your own group's safety. Not a bad last few episodes, though. I like the gritty way the action is playing out.

[Moon Knight]

My nag isn't about the bullet hitting the bat. For some reason that doesn't bother me. My problem was that Rosita trusted the one bullet they made would work. I don't know a thing about making bullets, but there's no way I trust that some lying mullet headed voyeur with a recipe book can manufacture a working bullet on the first try. I'd want to test at least a half dozen of them from behind a ballistics shield before trusting that gun is going to fire when I need it to. I expect that anywhere you find a dead guy and an empty gun there are casings around. I do, however, love Rosita. She is one of the few characters channeling my rage into action. She is doing exactly what I'd be doing in the same situation. Actually, in the same situation, that's what I'd WANT to be doing. But I'd likely be more the Eugene type. Sadly. I do see lots of evidence that there are loyal Negan followers amongst the Saviors. And that's good. The storyline needed to inject some plausibility around the Saviors. Negan is a really enjoyable character. That said, I still have not seen anyone in the Saviors that I think could replace Negan and keep control if someone took him out. Thus I maintain my position from the first episode of the season - take out Negan and the Saviors fall into disarray. The infighting and power struggle would either fracture them or at least buy you enough time to establish your own group's safety. Not a bad last few episodes, though. I like the gritty way the action is playing out. Simon is pretty strong number 2. I believe people would follow him without question. Fun fact, Steven Ogg (Simon) originally auditioned for the role of Negan. Also, Rosita is life.

[JDP]

My nag isn't about the bullet hitting the bat. For some reason that doesn't bother me. My problem was that Rosita trusted the one bullet they made would work. I don't know a thing about making bullets, but there's no way I trust that some lying mullet headed voyeur with a recipe book can manufacture a working bullet on the first try. I'd want to test at least a half dozen of them from behind a ballistics shield before trusting that gun is going to fire when I need it to. Perhaps it had already been tested that Eugene can in fact produce working bullets. Otherwise it would be hard to explain why it seems that the rest of the group is confident in Eugene's ability to do this.

[Wyldwraith]

Stating Simon could easily replace Negan if Negan was killed ignores the lessons of history, Just in the last 30-ish years, when Reagan got shot and his VP was VERY TEMPORARILY unreachable, you already had the Secretary of State making a power-grab that came within centimeters of clusterfucking the entire continuity of government. That was with force of law behind the VP, and a bunch of people sitting safe as houses in one of the most secure structures on Earth during peacetime. To say Simon could just "step in" if Negan went down also ignores the fact that Negan is many types of leader to different personality-types within the Saviors. To some the Dread Tyrant, to others the touchstone of their safety and stability, to still others the Mad Hatter Enabler of their Depravity Fun-Ride. There's zero evidence Simon has the kind of flexibility (and in-built savagery/depravity) to just step into all those roles Negan fills. Life as the Competent Lieutenant does NOT prepare one for a sudden by-surprise promotion to the Big Chair. There's also the distinct possibility Negan has in his time used Simon as a proxy-enforcer...and there may well be currents of Simon-hatred running through the Saviors that Simon, unlike Negan, hasn't had the license to brutalize and intimidate out of potential axe-grinders. Trin is right. The Saviors will shatter like glass when the day of Negan's fall arrives. Natural human tendency to fall into disarray when the tribe leader falls + Inability of any Negan-subordinates to effectively and in a timely manner emulate his multi-aspect style of dominance-based leadership = Broken Saviors. Some not-insignificant groups may well split into different factions however. Much like the situation which arose after Alexander the Great's demise.