TWD 5x12 "Remember" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[Moon Knight]

So what if they are portraying the group as bad guys? It's such a different and Interesting dynamic. Rick's behavior is justified imo. Just look at everything that has happened to the group since the Prison. Aaron understands this and he himself has "killed" two people who tried to kill him.

[AcesandEights]

Coolest thing about this episode? Trin is up to date on the series and posting about it! Nice!

[Trin]

So what if they are portraying the group as bad guys? It's such a different and Interesting dynamic. Rick's behavior is justified imo. Just look at everything that has happened to the group since the Prison. Aaron understands this and he himself has "killed" two people who tried to kill him. I agree that it's interesting. Way better than sitting on the farm for a half a season wondering where Sophia is. But I don't think it is *as* interesting as having the two groups pull together for an episode and then have a greater external threat surface that they must fight off as a group. Basically, I'd like a Dawn of the Dead vibe (everyone pulling together) instead of our current Day of the Dead vibe (everyone pulling different directions). As for Rick's behavior being justified ... that's a moralistic determination, and morality is short on checks and balances in the new world. They are living in a world where "justified" is determined solely by what you can get away with. And live with having done. Saying that "stuff has happened to them" to justify their current behavior is eerily close to the argument that Gareth applied to becoming ruthless cannibals. Coolest thing about this episode? Trin is up to date on the series and posting about it! Nice! *extra hugs for Aces*

[Moon Knight]

I agree that it's interesting. Way better than sitting on the farm for a half a season wondering where Sophia is. But I don't think it is *as* interesting as having the two groups pull together for an episode and then have a greater external threat surface that they must fight off as a group. Basically, I'd like a Dawn of the Dead vibe (everyone pulling together) instead of our current Day of the Dead vibe (everyone pulling different directions). As for Rick's behavior being justified ... that's a moralistic determination, and morality is short on checks and balances in the new world. They are living in a world where "justified" is determined solely by what you can get away with. And live with having done. Saying that "stuff has happened to them" to justify their current behavior is eerily close to the argument that Gareth applied to becoming ruthless cannibals. *extra hugs for Aces* I agree for the most part. However, Rick may be portrayed as a bit of a villain, but to me he's a good man doing what needs to be done. Gareth took an extreme and went the total opposite direction than Rick.

[DayoftheZ]

I am sure that if Alexandria is what it appears to be on the surface (i.e a good deal with some obvious flaws) I am certain Rick will come round and if Rick comes round I think Daryl will too. The key line in this episode was spoken not by Rick but by Glenn "we were almost out there too long". We all know that Rick is much further gone than Glenn but the tears as he was getting his barnet cut show that he is still a human. I think in five seasons we have seen that Rick will always try to do good by good people, just look at the list: Trying to help Morgan and Dwayne taking care of the quarry campers Hershels family taking in Michonne and Tyresses group at the prison accepting Axel and Oscar accepting Bob taking in the Woodbury Survivors accepting Abe, Tara, Rosita and Eugene Taking in Gabriel Taking in Noah and offering to take in other survivors from Dawns hospital. He has a system and that system needs to firm up the more times you meet bad people. He has become more feral with being on the road since the prison but his core values still stand and I don't believe the Rick we know will do anything to hurt good people. That said the first sign of these peope being the next termites and Rick will take them down.

[facestabber]

I think there may be over reaction to Ricks statement. I don't believe Rick is advocating a murderous overthrow of the place. Knowing Rick is a good man I'd say it is more of a non hostile event. Bsically informing the residents of the evil out there and team Rick will assume power and control.

[Publius]

I think there may be over reaction to Ricks statement. I don't believe Rick is advocating a murderous overthrow of the place. Knowing Rick is a good man I'd say it is more of a non hostile event. Bsically informing the residents of the evil out there and team Rick will assume power and control. So you're saying it'd be more of a benevolent Ricktatorship.

[Trin]

Excellent points all around! Like you all are saying, I cannot imagine Rick turning a takeover into a hostile event. But they are putting a lot of foreshadowing behaviors of "evil Rick" out there. The closing comment is mostly disturbing because of the timing. It comes after Rick has ostensibly bought into the community, and thus undermines any progress in Rick having "bought in" during the episode. I have to think they are building up to plunge Rick into some depths of darkness before pulling him back to the light. Ultimately, he comes back to the light though, because that is the core of his character, and his character is core to the show. For my part, I just hope they don't stretch that out for a ton of episodes.

[MinionZombie]

No, they wouldn't let in just anyone. And the group probably portrayed itself pretty well if all you saw was them walking along a road dying of thirst. But if I were Aaron by the end of my first day with Team Rick I would've led them off a cliff. Starting with Rick. I told the guy where my vehicles were parked and he promptly stole them, leaving my partner stranded in the woods, claimed my food and told everyone to eat up, and almost got me killed dragging me smack into a zombie riddled back road. There's caution... and then there's telling me he's going to kill me every 5 minutes. I'm still cheesed over a season of Rick hallucinating and acting insane. That was really a slog of TWD episodes for me. It looks like we're gearing up for a repeat, possibly with Daryl losing it too. I was hoping for a half season of good solid behavior out of the group. He wasn't hallucinating for a season's worth, it was like four or five episodes in season 3. As for Rick/Aaron - Aaron and Eric had been observing them for 2 or 3 weeks, so he'll have seen what their group dynamic was, how they dealt with each other, how leadership was handled, how they interacted with the world around them, what choices they made. Aaron will be well aware that - when faced with a mysterious stranger promising a super awesome place to call home - the people he's approached (only after making a solid judgement call to do even just that) will be wary of him and immediately suspicious. What's a little food from your stocks and a punch to the jaw in this world? That'll be factored in - and Aaron would also understand that Rick would have to try and establish his dominant credentials - if anything it'd be more concerning if Rick didn't act like that when approached by Aaron. Also, think about it from Rick's point of view, here's this stranger promising a great new place for them to live - after having encountered The Governor, The Claimers, and The Termites (and even Dawn's crowd) - so you're going to be decidedly cautious. Taking the other road turned into a bugger up, but nobody died, and when you don't trust someone (and you've got your whole family's safety to think about - both blood and extended family) it's a sensible decision at that point with the knowledge that Rick had at the time. Like you all are saying, I cannot imagine Rick turning a takeover into a hostile event. But they are putting a lot of foreshadowing behaviors of "evil Rick" out there. The closing comment is mostly disturbing because of the timing. It comes after Rick has ostensibly bought into the community, and thus undermines any progress in Rick having "bought in" during the episode. Honestly I think it's just keep a possibility in mind - if the Alexandrians (we'll have to come up with a catchy nickname for that lot ) turn out to be bad, then they can just take the place and live happily ever after - but it's only a possibility and he's only shared the idea of it with two people. We've only just arrived at the place - like Team Rick - so they'll just have to have a little patience and see how things are first. Plus it's a thematic device, a will he/won't he, linked to what Glenn was saying about being out there almost too long - however Rick's had the burden of leadership and has had to do some ghastly things in order to survive (remember 4x16 when he tore Joe's throat out with his teeth! ) So what I'm saying is basically - let's just wait and see - we've only just arrived at Alexandria.

[Moon Knight]

Just a few thoughts relating comic to show observations and theories.   Is Enid the new Sophia? It's also a safe bet Aiden is our new Spencer and did you guys notice more Negan foreshadowing concerning Ron telling Carl Mikey's dad had a "pool table"? In the comics it was Spencer that had the table and now it's Nicholas; and we all know how that ends up. I'm also bummed how Ambraham is getting all his material stripped and given to Michonne. It happened with Tyreese too. One of the cons of having Daryl around I guess.