TWD 5x08 "Coda" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[Trencher]

Gore is starting to be more and story less. It is a gradual development. I never meant to say that the show has always been that way. It is not Rick and the group actions that legitimizes anything it is the whole writing of the episodes. Since nobody of the wards left it is as the show says that rape and enslavement is okay. The boss only let it happen she did not do it herself (unless she did with Noah.) In anycase she dying would only make the place worse not better.

[UndeadHippo]

first things first: Rick straight out murdered officer Bob. No negotiation, no second chances. Secondly: what is the fascination with limping black guys this season? Noah has a pronounced limp, fair enough....Gabriel stood on a nail and is now limping alongside him, and you can bet Bob would have one hell of a limp if he were still alive. makes me wonder when Tyreese is going to get shot in the foot. When Beth went for Dawn...just how quick is Dawn's draw? she went from unarmed and surprised to gun in hand, raised and fired in a heartbeat, before anyone could react. (at least that's how it felt) I am going to miss Beth, but I suspect not as much as Coral will. The whole resolution felt a tad rushed after the big face-off. Were the gang just allowed to leave? Not escorted away? How long did the wards have to decide if they were leaving? Who is unilaterally in charge of the hospital now? there are a lot of unanswered questions there, we may not have seen the last of this setup yet. Once again the show drives home that "The Walking Dead" refers mostly to team Rick, and not the walkers. As a mid-season finale it kinda felt like too much of a downer ending. I'm not left excited for the return to see what happens next, (although that may have to do with missing out on the Morgan scene due to a channel hopping spouse). At least we have a few weeks to mourn...and for me to catch up on the comics

[DayoftheZ]

I have been very happy indeed with Series Five so far. Aside from the reintroduction to Beth and the whole introduction to Dawn (of The Walking Dead) and co which I found to be the worst episode out of all five series. I thought Beths death gave an almost equal punch as Sophia's. Not because Beth was a great loss (because in truth she isn't) but because of the clear impact on Team Rick members we care about like Rick, Carol, Daryl and of course Maggie. I'm not sure that I care for Noah as a character because frankly the actor doesn't seem too strong and seeing him share the screen with Andrew Lincoln, Melissa McBride and Norman Reedus really highlighted it. Other points I enjoyed was seeing "Sashas Bob" getting one last appearance, the nod to episode 1.1 with the fingers through the gap in the door and then the whole Gabriel Awakening. Also Morgan shushing the walker before giving her peace something he failed to do for his wife, to the cost of his son. Overall I very much enjoyed seven of the episodes and cant wait for February, though I will say I haven't really enjoyed the Comics since "Fear The Hunters" so I am hoping the TV series is more gripping.

[facestabber]

Ricks action was harsh but necessary. In this society the definition of murder doesn't fit there. I don't doubt for a second that had the guy stopped running, Rick would not have shot him. He was left with a man with a broken back. Rick sparred him from being eaten by walkers and that's the best he was gonna get. Ricks priority was rescuing his family not playing Dr. I don't fault Rick at all here. It was interesting that he repeated Gareths phrase(directed at Bob Stookey) "can't go back Bob". Rick didn't have the luxury of calling an ambulance or dropping Bob at the hospital and asking for your people back and oh by the way I ran over Bob on purpose. It sucks. Can't imagine Rick is proud of it. But I gaurantee that somewhere Shane is looking down and smiling at Rick�� Good call Day^ regarding impact. I won't really miss Beth but I empathize with the impact team Rick must feel.

[DayoftheZ]

Talk about a subtle hit for the future!! B3zmp3rIQAALh_H.jpg

[MinionZombie]

I am going to miss Beth, but I suspect not as much as Coral will. The whole resolution felt a tad rushed after the big face-off. Were the gang just allowed to leave? Not escorted away? How long did the wards have to decide if they were leaving? Who is unilaterally in charge of the hospital now? there are a lot of unanswered questions there, we may not have seen the last of this setup yet. As a mid-season finale it kinda felt like too much of a downer ending. I'm not left excited for the return to see what happens next, (although that may have to do with missing out on the Morgan scene due to a channel hopping spouse). At least we have a few weeks to mourn...and for me to catch up on the comics 1) Having just lost a main character, and the entirety of Team Rick being in such a chewed up emotional state - at the climax of the episode, no less - sticking in answers to the smaller questions about the Grady Gang wouldn't make sense, it would take all the wind out of the sails and mess up the pacing. Ultimately it doesn't matter what happens to them from here, who takes over etc, what matters is Team Rick and what had just happened (Beth's murder) - close the mid-season finale with a high point and go out from there. 2) If you go to AMC's YouTube page you can find the post-credits scene with Morgan. I trust you'll be keeping a firm grip on the remote control until the end of the credits from now on, eh? I'd also say that the mid-season finale last year was a bigger downer - the Prison got blown up, Hershel got decapitated, everyone got split up, Meghan was killed ... that one was rough. I thought Beths death gave an almost equal punch as Sophia's. Not because Beth was a great loss (because in truth she isn't) but because of the clear impact on Team Rick members we care about like Rick, Carol, Daryl and of course Maggie. I'm not sure that I care for Noah as a character because frankly the actor doesn't seem too strong and seeing him share the screen with Andrew Lincoln, Melissa McBride and Norman Reedus really highlighted it. Other points I enjoyed was seeing "Sashas Bob" getting one last appearance, the nod to episode 1.1 with the fingers through the gap in the door and then the whole Gabriel Awakening. Also Morgan shushing the walker before giving her peace something he failed to do for his wife, to the cost of his son. 1) To be fair to the guy he's a young actor new to the show, while the others you name are all in their forties, they've all been acting for decades, and they've been on the show since season one. We've only seen a little bit of Noah thus far ... give him time. 2) I'm wondering if Morgan has found peace at last, if he's got over his bout of crazy and is now firmly in control of himself. I too got the hint to the first episode, the scene where Morgan can't shoot and Rick tracks down the bicycle walker ... some excellent stuff, so that was ... in fact that scene from the first episode might be my favourite scene out of all the episodes of TWD. The fingers coming through the church doors was creepy as all get out ... just that mindless clamouring for flesh ... chilling stuff. ... Watched The Talking Dead and awww, Emily Kinney ... again it shows just how much these people love working together and how deeply they not only care about the show, but about each other too.

[DayoftheZ]

1) 1) To be fair to the guy he's a young actor new to the show, while the others you name are all in their forties, they've all been acting for decades, and they've been on the show since season one. We've only seen a little bit of Noah thus far ... give him time. Fair comment MZ on Noah its way to early to judge but measuring him even against Carl, Lizzie and Mika(sp) is not really favorable. To be fair his introduction into the series has been in quite a full on run of episodes so he kind of got lost a little. To be even fairer I didn’t care for Daryl or Tara at the start of their runs and they have gone from strength to strength. Some solid characters in the group now with Rick, Daryl, Carol, Abe, Glenn, Maggie, Sasha, Carl, Michonne, Tara and Rosita add Morgan into the mix and the acting chops should be pretty good. The jury is out on Eugene, Tyresse, Noah and Gabrial as to where they go moving forward, and if Judith doesn’t start having more lines in the script soon I will start thinking she is just a red shirt. I too love that scene in Days Gone Bye and it still stands out as one of the best, and the full circle nod was very nice indeed. The hospital door scene with the “Don’t Open Dead Inside” is one of the creepiest so it was sweet to see a flashback to that too. As an aside, I see some people have asked why more people didn’t join Team Rick from the Wards, look at it from their perspective. This savage group of outsiders have come in holding hostage two cops (who to the nurses and janitors are a symbol of ultimate strength) and have killed one, maybe two others. These people are weak and scared so its would be a huge risk to go outside with this group of unknowns, they don’t have the back story we do. Sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side.

[MinionZombie]

if Judith doesn’t start having more lines in the script soon I will start thinking she is just a red shirt. I too love that scene in Days Gone Bye and it still stands out as one of the best, and the full circle nod was very nice indeed. The hospital door scene with the “Don’t Open Dead Inside” is one of the creepiest so it was sweet to see a flashback to that too. As an aside, I see some people have asked why more people didn’t join Team Rick from the Wards, look at it from their perspective. This savage group of outsiders have come in holding hostage two cops (who to the nurses and janitors are a symbol of ultimate strength) and have killed one, maybe two others. These people are weak and scared so its would be a huge risk to go outside with this group of unknowns, they don’t have the back story we do. Sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side. 1) Judith better start learning to walk and talk quick! I want a Judith back story episode! 2) 3) Agreed. We know and love Team Rick, but to any strangers they encounter they're violent thugs capable of heaven knows what. Likewise I'd imagine many of those in the Grady Gang who aren't cops have never been outside since they first entered the hospital. Andrew Lincoln was saying in a video how at one point during his confrontation with Dawn that Rick realises she's never been outside in all this time (except for the roof, I'd imagine) ... she's kept herself safely inside the whole time ... so I'd imagine some of the other "staff" have done the same. They're well established there, it's the survival life that they know, and people are generally going to stick with what they know than something scary and new ... and capable of kidnapping two of your own group. This reminds me of something. It's rare that we encounter other groups of people who survive ... the Grady Gang have been left to carry on as they were (sort of), but usually Team Rick meets new people and those folks either end up dead or join their group. It's very rare that they are left somewhere out in the world ... Sam (who Rick gave his watch to early in season four) went missing and was somewhere out there, but soon was caught by Terminus and slaughtered ... there were the gang members of the group Randall was with in season two (the ones shooting and peeling off in trucks, leaving Randall for dead) ... we don't know what became of them, but it's rare for strangers to not end up dead or brought in ... so I thought that was quite interesting in the case of the Grady Gang. Things could change in the remaining episodes, but I have a feeling that's the last we'll see of Grady.

[DayoftheZ]

This reminds me of something. It's rare that we encounter other groups of people who survive ... I know an original edit of the first episode of series two solved the Vatos story but in the final cut we have never found out have we? So technically they could be still out there alive, even though Darabont wanted them gone! Also Morales and his family from the quarry camp site left and we don’t know how they ended up which was a nice touch. To me it would have been quite ballsy writing to just have Beth disappear when she did and then never tell us what happened. It’s the sort of thing that rarely happens in TV or Film but it would have given us a feeling of inclusion with Team Rick in that us like them know nothing or what happened to Beth, much like with Morales and family. The more I think about it the more I have really enjoyed this series (aside from the one Beth episode) and it is only half way through!

[Morto Vivente]

2) I'm wondering if Morgan has found peace at last, if he's got over his bout of crazy and is now firmly in control of himself. I too got the hint to the first episode, the scene where Morgan can't shoot and Rick tracks down the bicycle walker ... some excellent stuff, so that was ... in fact that scene from the first episode might be my favourite scene out of all the episodes of TWD Totally with you there MZ! I watched it a couple of months back for the umpteenth time - still got goose bumps!! Once we find out Dwayne's fate the scene takes on even more meaning (when revisiting it) as Morgan tries to protect his son by keeping him downstairs. A fantastic piece of film (IMO).

[Trencher]

These people are weak and scared so its would be a huge risk to go outside with this group of unknowns, they don’t have the back story we do. Sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side. That is exactly the message the writers wanted to convey. It is their attempt to legitimize slavery and rape. They could have added someone joining Rick and then shown that the ones who stayed lived to regret it. But they chose not to. They chose to go with this very odd out of character stand off in a hallway (of all places) they chose to portray the rape cops as reasonable during the shooting. They had an message to sell you.

[MinionZombie]

I know an original edit of the first episode of series two solved the Vatos story but in the final cut we have never found out have we? So technically they could be still out there alive, even though Darabont wanted them gone! Also Morales and his family from the quarry camp site left and we don’t know how they ended up which was a nice touch. I knew I was forgetting something ... okay, so we've seen it before, but not really since season one. So it's nice to have it again. That is exactly the message the writers wanted to convey. It is their attempt to legitimize slavery and rape. They could have added someone joining Rick and then shown that the ones who stayed lived to regret it. But they chose not to. They chose to go with this very odd out of character stand off in a hallway (of all places) they chose to portray the rape cops as reasonable during the shooting. They had an message to sell you. The writers et al of TWD are not legitimising slavery or rape. Team Rick had already lost Beth, and for what? They got Carol back, but they wanted both of their members back and it went sour quick. Staging an attack on Grady would just result in more deaths. Has Noah told Team Rick about all the evil deeds of some of the folks at Grady? Did he even have time to say anything more than "some of them are bad" as their rescue plan was cobbled together quick and acted upon immediately? Did Noah even know about anything bad happening ... Beth knew, but Beth wasn't in contact with Team Rick. Also, I'd imagine after leaving, the Grady Gang would lock that place down tight just in case Team Rick - the barbarians/scary strangers in their view - came back for more. Plus, you can't get everything you want as a viewer, just like in real life. Sometimes bad guys get away with stuff and receive no punishment, sometimes the good guys don't get to exact revenge, or stand up for the little guy ... sometimes surviving is enough to settle for. Getting a perfect outcome would be fantasy and unrealistic. Sometimes greed and revenge result in nothing good - Beth stabbed Dawn for her greed, but Dawn killed Beth, and then Daryl killed Dawn ... so nobody won in that situation. Beth acted on pure emotion and lost, Dawn reacted on pure, wretched, compromised survivalism and also lost.

[UndeadHippo]

Ultimately this season we traded Bob and Beth for Gabriel and Noah. Two capable survivors and passable fighters for two (in a survival sense) deadweights, plus we already have Eugene. That's 3 "noncombatants" right there. Thankfully we have Rosita and Abraham to sway the balance back a bit. What the group is lacking now is a "elder" figure to provide guidance and wisdom (think Hershel or Dale) and ultimately someone with strong negotiation and diplomacy skills. Lets hope that none of the newbies decide to take over singing duties....

[AcesandEights]

That is exactly the message the writers wanted to convey. It is their attempt to legitimize slavery and rape. They could have added someone joining Rick and then shown that the ones who stayed lived to regret it. But they chose not to. They chose to go with this very odd out of character stand off in a hallway (of all places) they chose to portray the rape cops as reasonable during the shooting. They had an message to sell you. This level of reading into the material to unearth the supposed motivations of the writers is ultimately more telling about your world views and thought processes, and says next to nothing about the show itself.

[DayoftheZ]

What the group is lacking now is a "elder" figure to provide guidance and wisdom (think Hershel or Dale) and ultimately someone with strong negotiation and diplomacy skills.. I agree with you I miss Herschel and Dale, but I suppose the Zombie Rising changes the goal posts on that one a little especially as the expected age of death has lowered pretty drastically. Being an "elder" now would most likely be down to how much "STUFF and THANGS" you have seen and done, rather than how long you have lived. Remember that Carl was offering to teach Gabriel how to survive and fight the dead that makes him some what of an elder. Just my view on that one.