TWD 2x10 "18 Miles Out" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Ultra Magnus]

Wyldwraith came thru and crushed the buildings!

[Trancelikestate]

Anyone else feel like responses over 5 paragraphs are too daunting to even begin to read?

[AcesandEights]

Anyone else feel like responses over 5 paragraphs are too daunting to even begin to read? You read the words? I only look at the .jpgs Honestly, I sometimes will diatribe with the best of them, but for the most part I am a less is more, rule of brevity kind of dude. Each to their own, though.

[fishfast41]

Wyldwraith's analysis of both mens actions is right on the money, IMO. I think Shane is far more qualified to lead the group from a pure survival standpoint. I'm surprised Rick hasn't gotten anyone killed so far. Did anyone notice Shane's reflection in the broken window right after he threw the wrench? No one has mentioned this yet, I think. Pretty good symbolism on the idea that zombies are simply the basest instincts turned loose. "We're them,and they're us" , to quote a phrase. Its these little tidbiits that really keep me watching. great stuff, What do you guys think?

[kidgloves]

There's a shit load of references to the comic going on as well. There introducing a lot of the ideas from the comic earlier and playing with the storyline which I really appreciate.

[AcesandEights]

There's a shit load of references to the comic going on as well. There introducing a lot of the ideas from the comic earlier and playing with the storyline which I really appreciate. Yeah, I was thinking about with some of the subplots. It's nice to see.

[Legion2213]

Wyldwraith's analysis of both mens actions is right on the money, IMO. I think Shane is far more qualified to lead the group from a pure survival standpoint. I'm surprised Rick hasn't gotten anyone killed so far. Did anyone notice Shane's reflection in the broken window right after he threw the wrench? No one has mentioned this yet, I think. Pretty good symbolism on the idea that zombies are simply the basest instincts turned loose. "We're them,and they're us" , to quote a phrase. Its these little tidbiits that really keep me watching. great stuff, What do you guys think? If "pure survival" means looking after Shanes intersts, then yeah, he is the man for the job. Honestly..ask yourself this single question...if it was you out there in a bad situation, who out of Rick and Shane would walk through fire to help you out and who would write you off as an "acceptable loss" (especially if he wanted something that was yours). As a character, Shane is boss...as somebody watching my back in a zombiegeddon situation, I'd rather have Rick out there with me.

[Ragnarr]

Not sure if I'm liking the new character whatshisface! He seems about as manly as a hybrid of Jimmi Olsen (Superman) and Gilligan (from the island) to me, only thinner. I do enjoy seeing Rick kicking ass though, especially when it's Shane stuck on the end of his workboot!

[fishfast41]

hmmm well. Legion, I'd have to say that I'd rather have Rick watching my back, 'cuz he'd be the one to cover me, you're right about that..That's because I would want to live. However, Rick's decisions in this area have been dangerous to the group as a whole. The only exception I can see is when he guns down the 2 guys in the bar. This was correct, and I'm certain Shane would have done the same,probably without all the talking. Shane's decisions here have been the correct ones for the group's survival. It doesn't matter whether Shane is being selfish or not,his best interests coincide with those of the group right now.I'm pretty sure that will change as things progress,but we aren't there yet. lol I'm looking at this from a group survival perspective, not an individual one. The present situation with Randall is a good example. For the good of the group, he must die.It's that simple. Sometimes, for the good of the whole, someone must be sacrificed.Obviously, this is not a pleasant thing, but in the situation we have here, it is the lesser of two evils. ooops one thing more...With his killing of the 2 in the bar ,and his admission that they would probably have to kill Randall, it seems that Rick is coming around to Shane's way of thinking here.

[Neil]

Don't believe anyone has brought an obvious question up? Why are the characters not worried about zombie blood ending up in their mouths or blood streams? They know a bite from a zombie will infect/kill them, so they know the zombies are walking infections. YET, when our characters are sprayed with blood, they don't seem concerned blood my be entering their mouths or eyes? And likewise, Shane slicing his hand open (in the bus) with a knife that had recently been in a zombies head? Good episode though

[fishfast41]

I noticed this in lots of zombie movies,and its a good point. Wish I could think up a reason to explain it away. OMG Neil, you just killed my willing suspension of disbelief! LOL

[shootemindehead]

Don't believe anyone has brought an obvious question up? Why are the characters not worried about zombie blood ending up in their mouths or blood streams? Yeh, was thinking that myself. They already have the beware "bites and scratches" attitude, but they don't seem to care about wading into the fray, splattering zombie blood everywhere. Although, they did wear facemasks in the second ep of the 1st series when they cut up a zombie for the guts scene. As for Shane and his knife thing, I reckon that was just a continuity goof.

[Gemini]

I am surprised you all aren't talking about this, but what do you make of the two dead walkers that Rick and Shane thought were odd because neither had a bite mark on them? This must be significant because it was revisited later in the episiode. Rick and Shane were not sure and assumed that scratches must transmit the infection. But what if this is a clue to one of the key dead debates we have on here - do you have to be bitten to turn, OR does every death result in reanimation, with bites only the cause of death, not the cause of reanimation? Does this tie into what the doctor whispered to Rick in season 1? Or can we all safely assume he was just telling Rick that Lori's preggo? Second half of season 2 is awesome so far. Interestingly, the second half premiere was my least favorite episode.

[krisvds]

I really don't see Shane caring about the group. If he were in charge, in no time there wouldn't be much of a group left to defend. Now Rick's moral code is slowly beginning to deteriorate. That's a big part of the comics as well and something I'm really interested in seeing in this tv series. In a world like this were at times the zombies are the least of your worries neither Shane nor Rick could keep everyone safe. Before you know it humanity is exposed as a bunch of hypocritical animals changing their moral code ad hoc. Doesn't matter what 'team' you like most. @ Gemini I hope they are sticking to the Romero rules here; the dead walk the earth. If you die you come back, bitten or not. Still if this were so what did these guys die from. Suicide pills? Heart failure? Exposure to Nickelback?

[Wyldwraith]

The thing about Rick is he's not just moral, he's a hardcore Optimist. Example: Faced with the revelation of Lori's pregnancy, at a time when Herschel was still being ADAMANT about insisting they have to leave, Rick's initial reaction is: (Paraphrasing) "I don't know how, but we can make this work Lori." Optimism is a good thing in a protracted Survival Situation, just ask any expert in self-rescue and subsistence-survival (Ie: Living off the land/what can be scavenged). I'm not knocking Rick's optimism, EXCEPT when he allows it to completely overrule common-sense and pragmatic assessments of high-risk situations. The perfect example of this is Rick's insistence on continuing to send 90% of their group out in search-parties for Sophia even after Carl had been shot, Andrea was nearly bitten and Daryl was almost killed 3 different ways on the same day. (Being thrown from the horse, almost being bitten while unconscious from said fall, and being grazed in the head by Andrea's rifle-shot.) Conversely, Shane wants to increase the probabilities of avoiding mishaps through a combination of playing it safe, controlling/securing the immediate environment, and keeping manpower & firepower consolidated whenever feasible. The guy who (quite practically) points out to Rick the truism from their cop-days that 72hrs after a child has gone missing you're far more likely to find a body than rescue the child alive, and as Shane said, that was before the Zombie Apocalypse. Yes, Shane forced the issue about the Walker-barn, but ONLY after first waiting days for Rick to reach a diplomatic solution with Herschel and AFTER it was made 100% clear by Rick that leaving the farm was not an option to be considered. Interestingly enough, time and time again Glenn instinctively moves to what will eventually become the "middle ground" between Rick and Shane's opposite reactions to the same situation. Maggie sees that and has repeatedly told Glenn as much, but for reasons as yet undisclosed Glenn doesn't want to see himself on the same "leadership level" as Rick & Shane. If Glenn WAS willing to step up in that manner, the group's leadership dynamic might become a CONSIDERABLY more stable triumvirate instead of the Two Party System played out in microcosm. Unfortunately, Glenn is as yet too comfortable in his current role. (A role which bears a remarkable resemblance to Morgan Freeman's portrayal of Red in The Shawshank Redemption) In the absence of a stabilizing 3rd-position leadership influence (And neither Dale/Lori's behind-the-scenes manipulations or Daryl's Freelance Army-Of-One conduct would cut it) it's natural that increasing polarization and extremism is the result of a Two-Party/Binary dynamic, much as it is in U.S politics out here in the real world. Edit: Regarding the comment: "I really don't see Shane caring about the group. If he were in charge, in no time there wouldn't be much of a group left to defend." Doesn't the fact that Shane had the group encamped in a remote location, was doing everything he could to police actions that might draw Walkers to them (Like chastising Ed for building the fire too high because of the extra light it'd cast), and DIDN'T HAVE ANY of the "near-misses" that have become so common during Rick's "administration" sort of blow a hole in that argument at the water-line? Those people had been together since the napalming of Atlanta and seemed to be doing fine. I'll grant you that Rick has tried to be more proactive, but isn't that a reaction to the casualties/dangers brought about by his adhering to a much stricter moral code? (Honest question, not rhetorical.)