TWD 5x03 "Four Walls And A Roof" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

A bit worried about Morgan... if he follows the signs Gareth made... he'll either wind up at the Elementary School chock-full of walkers & the 'nearly' broken glass window... or back at Terminus where the dude being cut up at the slaughterhouse in EP.1 looked quite a bit like Rick. Eh? The guy getting hacked up on the slab in episode one - while Rick & Co were hanging their heads over the blood trough - was Gareth's brother (killed in 4x16 during the confrontation with Rick). I'm pretty sure Morgan following those signs was after Team Rick walked on by (there's more foliage grown over the sign when Morgan passes through, than when Rick passes through).

[Andy]

Obviously his countervirus or whatever would have to distinguish between the passive infection in the living and the active infection in the undead. The virus presumably interacts with the body's cells in different ways when the body is living versus dead. Eugene would have to think he can design a counter-virus that can target only the reanimated stage of the virus. Presuming Eugene knows that the living are infected already..

[shootemindehead]

Another decent ep. Kind of sorry to see Gareth and the wankers go though. He was a really effective villain. Probably the best in the show so far. I was sort hoping that they would be stalking Rick'n'Co for a few more episodes as they...ahem..."make their way to Washington". Next week is going to be fresh, seeing as the cannibals arc is done. So, this years series could go anywhere.

[Neil]

Another decent ep. Kind of sorry to see Gareth and the wankers go though. He was a really effective villain. Probably the best in the show so far. I was sort hoping that they would be stalking Rick'n'Co for a few more episodes as they...ahem..."make their way to Washington". I was hoping after eating infected meat, and spotting a few tell-tale signs, they realised they only had a couple of days to live, and decided to go all jihad on Rick's gang!

[facestabber]

Someone clear this up. Was Eugene proposing that his 'cure' would target the Walkers or just the living? Or Both? A cure for the living to not turn upon death could be a plausible idea to a degree. Cure what is left then go on a killing spree of Walkers or just wait for them to decay into oblivion. Targeting the Walkers would essentially be a large scale chemical weapon that would basically re-kill the already dead. I would say even in this made up world it would be beyond belief that the cure would reverse the Walkers to live folks. Not that hope is bad, and its ok to try, but the probability at this stage IMO makes the cure idea flawed. Granted we have a small window of a handfull of counties in Georgia to gage a world view. But the view doesnt look good. Jenner confirmed the virus crossed the ocean. Walkers seem to far excede the numbers of the living. Communications dont exist(cell phones/land lines for us older folks. There is probably minimal if any gov't or infrastructure left. So even if a cure is discovered, how in the hell would/could it be delivered? Washington can't advertise or sell the idea. At minimum the only comeback of the living that Abraham speaks of would be limited to a small society of living people that have been cured of the virus which takes over an Island and starts over. The new world may need a Rick Grimes but it would take generations before the comeback was in full force. I may go along with Abraham but only because he's a good fighter, seems trustworthy etc but specifically because what the hell else am I going to do?

[AcesandEights]

My general feeling about the TV plot line for Abraham, Eugene & the quest for DC is:   Rick will go along with it, to keep the group together, but never have any faith in it. He very well may not go out of his way to say so, but in the end it will keep a strong group together and get them to some new ground, while keeping their eyes open for options.

[MinionZombie]

I don't want them to do anything but drop over! ... I'd have thought Eugene's brilliant idea is probably for some sort of chemical weapon that targets the walkers specifically. There has to be some kind of difference between the living and the dead, even though the living are infected. If you die of natural causes you resurrect, but you can live your life without turning into a zombie (if you remain safe) ... however if you get bitten then it's game over within 48 hours ... so that there is a key difference, and there must be something in that where there's a distinction to be made - and targetted - and then it'd be dispersed in the atmosphere. I'd imagine the walkers would then do as Rhodes dreamed of and just drop over. You'd clear an area and spread out accordingly ... now, of course, walkers aren't going to abide by an invisible line, you'll get 'bleed over' across the boundaries of the chemical's effectiveness, but you could clear entire areas quickly where walker populations are high. You'd have to do that on a somewhat rogue basis making your way through America, no doubt with the aim to reach certain government facilities to see if anyone's still alive - if they are then you can team up and start re-establishing a network, and you go from there. That's what I'd imagine the thinking would be ... whether it'll actually happen or not is an entirely different thing. I've read the comics, so I know stuff ... and thaaangs.

[shootemindehead]

"Or....or....now bear with me....we could, ya know....make them "behave"! I mean, they're simply us, just functioning less perfectly. They're still sorta human. Look at this guy behind me. His hands are clearly human."

[MinionZombie]

"Or....or....now bear with me....we could, ya know....make them "behave"! I mean, they're simply us, just functioning less perfectly. They're still sorta human. Look at this guy behind me. His hands are clearly human." Keep talkin' Frankenstein ... I'm listenin'

[Andy]

I don't want them to do anything but drop over! ... I'd have thought Eugene's brilliant idea is probably for some sort of chemical weapon that targets the walkers specifically. There has to be some kind of difference between the living and the dead, even though the living are infected. If you die of natural causes you resurrect, but you can live your life without turning into a zombie (if you remain safe) ... however if you get bitten then it's game over within 48 hours ... so that there is a key difference, and there must be something in that where there's a distinction to be made - and targetted - and then it'd be dispersed in the atmosphere. I'd imagine the walkers would then do as Rhodes dreamed of and just drop over. You'd clear an area and spread out accordingly ... now, of course, walkers aren't going to abide by an invisible line, you'll get 'bleed over' across the boundaries of the chemical's effectiveness, but you could clear entire areas quickly where walker populations are high. You'd have to do that on a somewhat rogue basis making your way through America, no doubt with the aim to reach certain government facilities to see if anyone's still alive - if they are then you can team up and start re-establishing a network, and you go from there. That's what I'd imagine the thinking would be ... whether it'll actually happen or not is an entirely different thing. I've read the comics, so I know stuff ... and thaaangs. Again, your assuming that Eugene knows the living are already infected.. From a biological weapon point of view, you isolate the virus/infection that reanimates the dead and you develop a virus that specifically attacks it. In a world gone to shit and your desperate to get this working as quickly as possibly and with no reason to believe the living are infected too.. why would you waste time further researching it? *shrugs* Like you.. I've read the comics so we both know how this pans out anyway, but you see my point?

[Trin]

Hey all! I'm all caught up! Fun season so far! 5x03 was (finally) an episode that felt right. Team Rick were on the offensive and (as many have said) did what the viewers would want done. It was a stand up and cheer moment when the headshots popped those two jerks threatening to kill everyone in the office. And Gareth shot and begging was icing on the cake. Rick finishing him was (again, finally) a very satisfying moment that resonated with me. I really like that they didn't drag out the plotline for tons of episodes. That has been such a problem in the past. This time it was detailed and full of characters so it felt rich. It was slow enough to settle into but not so long I felt like they wasted tons of screen time. It was very good pacing across the 3 episodes. I'm not very happy with the Abraham/Eugene "let's rush to Washington" plotline. Abraham's goal is to get Eugene to Washington. Fine. I think that's a good goal. So he should choose the best possible course of action to see that done. I understand his middle of the night desire to perform an "immediate extraction" of Eugene. That made sense given the Gareth threat. But with the Gareth threat neutralized common sense would dictate that there's no hurry and his mission would have a greater chance of success with Team Rick accompanying him, especially if they find Carol and Daryl. Take a few days and resupply, secure better transport, and let Team Rick regroup. From the Team Rick perspective, I have no problem following Abraham to Washington. There is really nothing better for them to be doing. But I'm not going to take a lot of risks doing it and I'm not going to leave people behind just for sake of expediency. Eugene hasn't given us any reason to believe he can actually cure anything. He's just a goofy bastard with a semi-plausible theory. Washington has waited 2 years and counting for Eugene to arrive. It can wait as long as necessary. If Eugene is really the best hope for humanity then they should take every step in the most planned and methodical way possible. Not go driving off in a broken down schoolbus with a fraction of the available resources. It's good to be back. *waves at everyone*

[MoonSylver]

I don't want them to do anything but drop over! "Or....or....now bear with me....we could, ya know....make them "behave"! I mean, they're simply us, just functioning less perfectly. They're still sorta human. Look at this guy behind me. His hands are clearly human." Keep talkin' Frankenstein ... I'm listenin' "Sheet! You two be crackin' me up, mon." BTW, that GIF of Rhodes looks like either A) He's playing the worlds angriest game of "Pull My Finger" or B) A guy yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

[Publius]

Again, your assuming that Eugene knows the living are already infected.. I don't think it'd take a huge logical leap. It should be clear by now that everyone who dies reanimates, not just those who are bitten. The simplest assumption is that transmission of the virus from a walker (e.g. through bites or scratches) is unnecessary to cause reanimation because the virus is already present in the living. They definitely should be asking Eugene more questions, though. He's making a pretty remarkable claim, and I'd want to see how well he can back it up before taking big risks to help him. From the Team Rick perspective, I have no problem following Abraham to Washington. There is really nothing better for them to be doing. But I'm not going to take a lot of risks doing it and I'm not going to leave people behind just for sake of expediency. Eugene hasn't given us any reason to believe he can actually cure anything. He's just a goofy bastard with a semi-plausible theory. Washington has waited 2 years and counting for Eugene to arrive. It can wait as long as necessary. I would have better things to do. My reasoning would go like this: Georgia: approximate population density 175 people per square mile, 75% urban, 40% gun owners Washington, DC metro area: approximate population density 1,000 people per square mile, <30% gun owners Alabama: approximate population density 95 people per square mile, 60% urban, 50% gun owners Mississippi: approximate population density 65 people per square mile, 50% urban, 55% gun owners Fewer pre-crisis people, fewer walkers. More pre-crisis people, more walkers. Things are most likely to be stable in areas with a low population density, low percentage of urban population (which will generate massive swarms roaming the countryside), and high percentage of gun ownership. Unless Eugene has a really good explanation for why he thinks he can his idea will work and why he thinks there's still anyone in DC who can implement it, my motto is "go west, young man!"

[Buzzbomb]

Eh? The guy getting hacked up on the slab in episode one - while Rick & Co were hanging their heads over the blood trough - was Gareth's brother (killed in 4x16 during the confrontation with Rick). Your right - it was Alex & he had a head shot, so no re-animation. I thought he looked a bit like Rick though... - - - Updated - - - I'd have thought Eugene's brilliant idea is probably for some sort of chemical weapon that targets the walkers specifically. I've wondered whether the chemical weapon could either just confuse them, so they couldn't tell the living from the dead, or turn them into veggies... in the first instance, they'd largely eliminate themselves. But then I know nothing & I haven't read the comics

[Trin]

@Publius... I agree with your analysis. I still think if I were in their position I'd entertain the Abraham/Eugene plan given the potential to end the threat world-wide. But I'd pursue it with your stance in mind. Running off ill-prepared to Washington is silly for the exact reasons you mention. First, I'd want Eugene to instill some confidence in the group that he has a clue. That means he needs to sit his ass down and explain in detail (with a full FAQ document) EXACTLY what he plans to do and how he thinks he can do it. I honestly don't care if it takes weeks. It's critical for the group to believe in his solution. Assuming some buy-in to Eugene's solution, the group needs to plan how to most safely succeed. Assuming it is Washington or bust, they need to plan the trip. They need to treat Eugene like precious cargo. You don't drive Eugene around in an old bus. They need to move deliberately and methodically. They need contingencies. That might mean going west for a bit to scavenge military vehicles, guns, ammo, gas, etc. where populations are lighter. Given the size of Team Rick I'd have Eugene travelling a day behind an advance group that is setting up safe areas ahead of his arrival. Communicate via radio and have fallback safe-houses. Collect guns and ammo and vehicles and only advance if you have a solid base of supplies with good recon of what's ahead. If the road ahead looks dangerous.... fall back and reassess. I'd expect Abraham to do more to assure the success of his mission than he's doing. Especially with Eugene's brainpower backing him up. They seem to be a bit cavalier about driving across the post-apocalyptic countryside toward a heavily populated area with humanity's sole hope. I agree it is riskier than heading to a remotely populated area and just setting up shop. I just think that the risk (well-managed) would be worth it. Even if there is no "cure" to be developed in Washington, the possibility of there being infrastructure and safe areas around Washington is very plausible. If Abraham or Eugene can find them and have credentials to get you in... that's pretty valuable. And they could potentially determine that from miles out via radio. Oh, and just for the record, even though I have NOT read the comics or comic spoilers... my prediction is that there is a 0.1% chance that Eugene has a clue. In my plan they'd fail at Step 1 when Eugene cannot instill any confidence.