TWD 2x13 "Beside The Dying Fire" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Thorn]

Loved the episode, I do feel as has been mentioned that it should have been longer I did feel as if they tried to fit too much into the time they had to tell the story. But that would be the only criticism. I am really hoping they go back for the RV is was such a major part of the comic, maybe Michone and her new BFF will go back for it. Loved Michone's reveal and the walkers with her (will avoid spoilers here) were done very well. I hate Lori, I never did before, but I guess I do not get her treating Rick like a leper for taking out the threat to her family she told him about and encouraged him to take out. More over her reaction was one that treated hi mas if she did not know him, and loathed him. He is the man she asked him to be, they all asked him to be, he had to kill Shane she who backs her husband all the time is upset he defended himself when Shane tried to kill him? Um okay... die in a fire. The only regret I have is that we did not see one or two of the farm folk try to defend the farm house and watch it get over run, with moments of futile efforts defending doors and windows before they fled into the basement where the zombie horde /herd eventually busted through and feasted on them with a shot of hteir provisions in the back ground. Yes there is food in the basement, but it is you ... Jimmy. Lots of amazing make up and FX, great acting, great scenes, the fire was awesome. Really happy with the season finale.

[bungi43]

It does make me wonder though...if everyone had gone down into the basement and locked the doors, would the heard have just moved on? While they did bust through that fence, they were seeing something. Aside from Rick and Carl being seen, I Think everyone else could've hit until it passed. Of course, then we wouldn't have had all that fun at the barn. I'm also confused how Rick and Carl got surrounded the way they did. They couldn't make it back to the house, which means that the zombie herd really wasn't as much as a herd, so much as it was coming from 3 different directions. Finally...WTF was Jimmy doing? Was he driving around with the door open asking them to come in? Why couldn't he slowly drive off with Rick and Carl on the roof? I get they had to have some fodder, but WTF? LOL @ poor Jimmy Loved the episode, I do feel as has been mentioned that it should have been longer I did feel as if they tried to fit too much into the time they had to tell the story. But that would be the only criticism. I am really hoping they go back for the RV is was such a major part of the comic, maybe Michone and her new BFF will go back for it. Loved Michone's reveal and the walkers with her (will avoid spoilers here) were done very well. I hate Lori, I never did before, but I guess I do not get her treating Rick like a leper for taking out the threat to her family she told him about and encouraged him to take out. More over her reaction was one that treated hi mas if she did not know him, and loathed him. He is the man she asked him to be, they all asked him to be, he had to kill Shane she who backs her husband all the time is upset he defended himself when Shane tried to kill him? Um okay... die in a fire. The only regret I have is that we did not see one or two of the farm folk try to defend the farm house and watch it get over run, with moments of futile efforts defending doors and windows before they fled into the basement where the zombie horde /herd eventually busted through and feasted on them with a shot of hteir provisions in the back ground. Yes there is food in the basement, but it is you ... Jimmy. Lots of amazing make up and FX, great acting, great scenes, the fire was awesome. Really happy with the season finale. -- -------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ---------- Also (and yes, I know this goes towards the plot)...but they all meet back where they were looking for Sofia, and kill one zombie. Why on Earth didn't they spend a few minutes trying to siphon gas from any of those vehicles? Did they do this already throughout the season and I miss it? The entire herd of zombies is at the farm. Surely they could take a few minutes to try and get gas? Or even just take one of those other cars? Rick new he was on empty in the vehicle. Another thing...do we have an idea how far the farm is from that Prison? Don't you think a Prison might have come up as a "secure place" for someone who lives near the prison?

[Thorn]

It does make me wonder though...if everyone had gone down into the basement and locked the doors, would the heard have just moved on? While they did bust through that fence, they were seeing something. Aside from Rick and Carl being seen, I Think everyone else could've hit until it passed. Of course, then we wouldn't have had all that fun at the barn. I'm also confused how Rick and Carl got surrounded the way they did. They couldn't make it back to the house, which means that the zombie herd really wasn't as much as a herd, so much as it was coming from 3 different directions. Finally...WTF was Jimmy doing? Was he driving around with the door open asking them to come in? Why couldn't he slowly drive off with Rick and Carl on the roof? I get they had to have some fodder, but WTF? LOL @ poor Jimmy -- -------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ---------- Also (and yes, I know this goes towards the plot)...but they all meet back where they were looking for Sofia, and kill one zombie. Why on Earth didn't they spend a few minutes trying to siphon gas from any of those vehicles? Did they do this already throughout the season and I miss it? The entire herd of zombies is at the farm. Surely they could take a few minutes to try and get gas? Or even just take one of those other cars? Rick new he was on empty in the vehicle. Another thing...do we have an idea how far the farm is from that Prison? Don't you think a Prison might have come up as a "secure place" for someone who lives near the prison? Valid points. Would love to have seen them in the basement and watched it play out. Jimmy was a red shirt and they made his death far too easy, since he was written as dead earlier that was a throw in... and it felt like it. Agree on the prison hope it was far enough away that it would not have been on Hershel's radar. Further I agree, if Rick and the guys were at the car waiting that long gas and supplies surely would have been on my mind, I would have had to stay busy and prepare for the worse case scenario, which is us three moving on without anyone else and I would have taken all I could from the area around me to make it happen killing the straggler walkers with melee weapons.

[AcesandEights]

Also (and yes, I know this goes towards the plot)...but they all meet back where they were looking for Sofia, and kill one zombie. Why on Earth didn't they spend a few minutes trying to siphon gas from any of those vehicles? This occurred to me too and I figured that it would make a lot of sense for them to have siphoned/drained the gas from the cars at that spot during the preceding weeks, as it was a spot they had returned to a few times during the search for Sophia. Since it wasn't explicitly addressed, I just assume that or something similar was the case. You have to do this or you will go crazy with the writers 'overlooking' or not addressing this sort of stuff.

[bassman]

This occurred to me too and I figured that it would make a lot of sense for them to have siphoned/drained the gas from the cars at that spot during the preceding weeks, as it was a spot they had returned to a few times during the search for Sophia. Since it wasn't explicitly addressed, I just assume that or something similar was the case. You have to do this or you will go crazy with the writers 'overlooking' or not addressing this sort of stuff. Earlier in the season we see Hershel fueling the generator for the house. Perhaps they had been collecting the fuel from the highway, but just never really addressed it other than the generator scene? That house always had lights on at night, so i imagine they ran through some fuel at a fast rate. Minor, but that could be a small suggestion from the writers that the group had been going out for fuel...

[sandrock74]

They were seen getting fuel from the cars on the highway when they were staying there looking for Sophia. That was good enough for me. About Hershel knowing of the prison, I live by one, but I don't know of its exact location. Why would I? I've never had any business there. It's pretty much ignored by everyone, other than people incarcerated there or people who work there. I certainly wouldn't go out looking for it during a zombie apocalypse!

[bungi43]

They were seen getting fuel from the cars on the highway when they were staying there looking for Sophia. That was good enough for me. About Hershel knowing of the prison, I live by one, but I don't know of its exact location. Why would I? I've never had any business there. It's pretty much ignored by everyone, other than people incarcerated there or people who work there. I certainly wouldn't go out looking for it during a zombie apocalypse! But you know it is there. That's kind of my point. I don't really need an explanation of not getting gas from the cars. But they seemed to address multiple times yesteday about how unsafe that area was. Tdogg all but went crazy saying "WE AIN'T GOING BACK TO THE HIGHWAY". So if it was unsafe, I would say they hadn't gone back, but yeah, maybe they used all of that up or something. It was a good finale, just some things that jumped out at me.

[Thorn]

The one thing that jumped out of me was ... why the hell were they driving around at break neck speeds in cars shooting out their windows. I am all for suspension of disbelief but come on... that kind of accuracy can't be had from moving vehicles at night like that. More over Daryl was fine to stop and shoot and pick his shots so would everyone else have been and you could have moved as needed. The thing felt like a wild west Indian and cowboy shoot out but a lot more ridiculous.

[darth los]

But you know it is there. That's kind of my point. Agreed. Herschel knew that area like the back of his hand. He knew which walkers used to own what land and who worked where. There's no way he doesn't know about the prison. Kinda like he didnt know sophia was in the barn right? Furthermore, prisons tend to be the lifeblood of the economy of the surrounding area. It's unfathomable that a person who lives in that town doesn't know about it. That goes for maggie as well.

[MinionZombie]

Even without her face, the introduction of Michonne was just simply amazing. Straight from the comics, yet it actually worked! It felt like it fit with the show. Bravo Mazarra, Kirkman, and company. Many people wondered if Michonne could have the comic introdcution in the show without it coming off as cheesy, but they pulled it off.... Indeed! The reveal was awesome - didn't see it coming, and when it did, t'was awesome. I loved that she is entirely cloaked by a hood - just a blank hole and a sword staring back at her - nifty. Also, the armless zombies look positively creepy as all get-out! Plus - THAT final shot reveal of the prison - sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. Also - yes - I do hope they go back for the RV. It's such an iconic vehicle from the series, and it'd be sad to leave it on the farm with Jimmy's guts smeared all over it ... but then again, how would they write such a thing into the show and justify it narratively? Hmmm... TWD Volume 8 Comic Spoiler:   Although the RV does get wrecked in Volume 8 of the comics, so it's coming eventually, but to get rid of it this early would be a little unfortunate.

[JDFP]

As someone who hasn't seen the comics, I'm trying to understand how a prison (unless it had been empty for some time as no longer used) could really be a valid place to stay. I mean, sure, the high walls and fences would make it safe from the undead outside - but don't prisons hold prisoners? I don't know how the comics do it - but in the series it would have to be done in one of these ways: 1.) It was a country-club small scale federal prison. I.E. you had people like Bernie Madoff and Martha Stewart living in it who had committed crimes like insider trading and commodities fraud. So, what happened when the shit hit the fan? The guards went around and let everyone out and said: "Good luck!" as they all left. Then the guards eventually left themselves (or, perhaps, maybe they didn't in realizing how good they had it there?). 2.) It was a state prison with murderers, rapists, thugs. You couldn't simply have guards around and let these people out and say: "Good luck!". So, what did the guards do? Leave these people in their cells where they eventually died? Kill them all before leaving the prison (if the guards even left that is, I'm wondering about this)? Would you waste time and ammunition in going around killing these people when you know damned well you'd need the ammunition later on down the road? Honestly, as being a pretty well fortified and secure place like a prison I'm wondering how many of the guards would have just walked off and left from having years worth of food and supplies as well as protection fro the outside. I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few guards and perhaps family members of guards were still around. What I find most interesting to consider is - what happened to all the prisoners? And I think a lot of this has to do with what type of prison this place was after all (state v. federal max or federal country club). In not having read the comics - if I was to guess these were the worst dregs of society in this prison (i.e. state or federal max) they would have just been left in their cells to starve to death. If it was a fed-lite prison perhaps Bernie Madoff and some other guards are now running the place. Regardless, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. j.p.

[acealive1]

rick's whole speech made sense because if they wanted to talk about going out there in the middle of the night running into god knows what, then he was gonna show em how stupid they sound by sounding equally outlandish in saying what he said. people do it all the time. daryl is in this for the long haul and he seems to be the most level headed since he brushed aside his brother coming back as a hallucination. michonne's idea about keeping walkers with her is really weird looking but if it keeps her from making it a trio then i say keep doing it. and im sorry, if my girlfriend looked like maggie, i'd keep her happy at any cost. period. lori seems to have followed shane off the deep end with her breaking down at the end after doing the whole 'shane is crazy, etc etc' thing weeks back. i guess she's still attached to the kid's real father after all. carl is really pissing me off. how do you go from fuckin clint eastwood to a child again in a few hours? herschel......BAD ASS. fired that cannon about 50 times and never reloaded. DODO of the day goes to herschel's kid for leaving the damn RV door (both of them) UNLOCKED and theres walkers hanging out. it didnt make a damn bit of sense for people to get all mad about rick not telling them what jenner said. it wouldnt have made a difference anyway. it seems to be a virus just like AIDS or anything else that we have the physical ability to catch. we all have a cell in our bodies that enables us to have a certain disease or not. some people are immune to certain things....and im willing to bet theres someone out there who is the key to the whole epidemic. the ONLY thing i didnt like was the fact they showed t dogg and a few others making sure the fences were holding up recently but they never thought about the BIG WIDE OPEN SIDE where anyone could just mosey on in. dumb asses.

[kidgloves]

The one thing that jumped out of me was ... why the hell were they driving around at break neck speeds in cars shooting out their windows. I am all for suspension of disbelief but come on... that kind of accuracy can't be had from moving vehicles at night like that. More over Daryl was fine to stop and shoot and pick his shots so would everyone else have been and you could have moved as needed. The thing felt like a wild west Indian and cowboy shoot out but a lot more ridiculous. The idea was to get the walkers to follow the cars around and off the farm so i don't think accuracy was really the intention. Worked for dramatic purposes though.

[Andy]

I will just say.. DEFROST ME IN OCTOBER.

[kidgloves]

Agreed. Herschel knew that area like the back of his hand. He knew which walkers used to own what land and who worked where. There's no way he doesn't know about the prison. Kinda like he didnt know sophia was in the barn right? Furthermore, prisons tend to be the lifeblood of the economy of the surrounding area. It's unfathomable that a person who lives in that town doesn't know about it. That goes for maggie as well. I'd never thought of a prison as a viable holdout until i read TWD. It was one of those "Oh shit. Of course" moments. Never even crossed my mind so i don't think it would be immediately obvious to someone like Herschel. -- -------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ---------- As someone who hasn't seen the comics, I'm trying to understand how a prison (unless it had been empty for some time as no longer used) could really be a valid place to stay. I mean, sure, the high walls and fences would make it safe from the undead outside - but don't prisons hold prisoners? I don't know how the comics do it - but in the series it would have to be done in one of these ways: 1.) It was a country-club small scale federal prison. I.E. you had people like Bernie Madoff and Martha Stewart living in it who had committed crimes like insider trading and commodities fraud. So, what happened when the shit hit the fan? The guards went around and let everyone out and said: "Good luck!" as they all left. Then the guards eventually left themselves (or, perhaps, maybe they didn't in realizing how good they had it there?). 2.) It was a state prison with murderers, rapists, thugs. You couldn't simply have guards around and let these people out and say: "Good luck!". So, what did the guards do? Leave these people in their cells where they eventually died? Kill them all before leaving the prison (if the guards even left that is, I'm wondering about this)? Would you waste time and ammunition in going around killing these people when you know damned well you'd need the ammunition later on down the road? Honestly, as being a pretty well fortified and secure place like a prison I'm wondering how many of the guards would have just walked off and left from having years worth of food and supplies as well as protection fro the outside. I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few guards and perhaps family members of guards were still around. What I find most interesting to consider is - what happened to all the prisoners? And I think a lot of this has to do with what type of prison this place was after all (state v. federal max or federal country club). In not having read the comics - if I was to guess these were the worst dregs of society in this prison (i.e. state or federal max) they would have just been left in their cells to starve to death. If it was a fed-lite prison perhaps Bernie Madoff and some other guards are now running the place. Regardless, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. j.p. All will be answered.