GAR Dead Films - Universe and Timeline

[Adolf Kitler]

This thread makes my head hurt.

[Philly_SWAT]

sorry dude, not trying to bogart your thread or anything, i just don't understand the parallel universe theory in any form, much less the zombie world although to a degree, that'd be kinda cool if you knew in a parallel universe somewhere humans are fighting zombies for survival sorta like planet of the apes i guess, only zombies instead No need to apologize. As long as we are talking "dead talk", its all good. I cant discuss it much with people that I know around here. The easy way to explain it would be this.... We now currently exist in the universe. Depending on your beliefs, it was either created by "God", or just came into being because of an as of yet unknown reason (Big Bang Theory being the most well known theory). So if a movie, or comic book, or novel, has all the rules of "our" universe, it is taking place in this universe. If there is something in that movie/comic/novel that does not coincide when the "rules" of "our" universe, it is taking place in a different universe. The important thing is are the "rules" in the movie following the "rules" in our universe? Even if some rediculous things are happening in the movie, it could still be in our universe. The "Marvel Universe", for example, is a universe very similar to our own, the main difference being that superheros exist. A guy can be bit by a radioactive spider and then can climb walls, have "spidey-sense", etc. Four people can get exposed to space radiation and become the Fantastic Four. These things, as far as we can tell, can not really happen in our univese, therefore we refer to those stories as being set in the Marvel Universe. Now lets say there is a movie where Steve-O from Jackass fame gets elected as President of the United States. A rediculous premise to be sure, but is that movie set in our universe, or not? Well, could Steve-O be elected President of the US? The question is not would that be a good idea, or that the population would never elect him, but is it possible. Yes it would be. He is a natural born citizen, and as long as he followed the election rules of this country, and either secured a national parties nomination, or got his name placed on the ballot of the 50 States by following proper procedues i.e. signed petitions with a minimum number of signatures, etc. he could run for and be elected the Prez. Now we both know that is incredibly, extremely unlikly, but possible. Therefore that movie is set in this universe. If the same movie also had Steve-O with the ability to teleport into other countries to have meetings with world leaders, that one difference would make the movie not be in "our" universe, but a different universe. As far as the "Romero Universe" goes, he has created a universe mainly identical to ours with one glaring exception: the dead can come back to life and want to attack the living. That is the Romero universe. So, do the stories take place in the same universe, the "Romero universe", or is there several differnt universes, very similiar, but different enough from each other to where there are different "rules" in place? I submit that all of GAR's dead movies are set in the same universe. Any minor differences in "rules" that you see are due to imperfect movie making techniques, not an intention to create separate universes. It would be like this...in the Marvel Universe, lets say Spider-Man broke his left pinkie finger. Two years later, the writers make a brief, unimportant-in-the-grand-scheme-of-things reference to SPider-Man breaking his right pinkie finger two years ago. Was that a purposeful decision to have that story take place in a totally different universe, one where the other finger was broken, or simply a mistake by the writer? Just a mistake. Same explanation for "why does the cemetary zombie move so fast while the ones in Dawn dont?" Purposeful decision by GAR to create another universe in Dawn, or just a by-product of the low budget, decade later process of making a follow-up. That is for yo uto decide. Dont know if that clears it up, or makes it more confusing. The question "Do GAR's dead films take place in the same universe" is not asking do they take place in the same universe we exist in, they clearly dont. The dead havent, arent, and arent likely in the future, to rise andd attack the living. The question is are they in the same universe as each other. I say yes, others say no. What do you think?

[Deadman_Deluxe]

The Alive Man ... when you are talking about a "universe" i think you are talking about "the" universe ... as in space terminology, full of solar systems, suns, planets, stars, comets etc etc. When we are referring to GARs "universe" we simply mean the place where his stories exist and his storytelling "rules" are enforced. Nothing so overly complicated about that right? + NOTLD: This is GARs story about how a "zombie apocalypse" would unfold IF it was to happen during the period it was made in. It also reflects society during the period it was made in. We join this story approx. THREE DAYS AFTER the "initial outbreaks" or the discovery of a "patient zero". GARs storytelling rules apply here. DOTD: This is GARs story about how a "zombie apocalypse" would unfold IF it was to happen during the period it was made in. It also reflects society during the period it was made in. We join this story approx. THREE WEEKS AFTER the "initial outbreaks" or the discovery of a "patient zero". GARs storytelling rules apply here. DAY: This is GARs story about how a "zombie apocalypse" would unfold IF it was to happen during the period it was made in. It also reflects society during the period it was made in. We join this story approx. THREE MONTHS AFTER the "initial outbreaks" or the discovery of a "patient zero". GARs storytelling rules apply here. LOTD: This is GARs story about how a "zombie apocalypse" would unfold IF it was to happen during the period it was made in. It also reflects society during the period it was made in. We join this story approx. THREE YEARS AFTER the "initial outbreaks" or the discovery of a "patient zero". GARs storytelling rules apply here. Can you see the pattern now? Hope that helps you!

[Maitreya]

Hmmm... I voted the same universe same timeline. Because I believe they happen along the same timeline, for the simple fact that the zombies remain the same, the dead return to life, and they can be killed by head trauma. The reason they may appear to be different timelines I suppose would be that none of the movies are DIRECTLY linked, but I could put it to you this way by talking about a different movie series: the Alien series, with a slight modification. Knocking the first two out of the picture, as they're direct continuations with Ripley in both, and would have no bearing on my argument. Now assume Alien 3 was made the way it was originally intended (Xenomorph outbreak on planet Earth) they could have a story following Ripley, Hicks, Newt, and Bishop at the beginning, showing how they came back and brought the eggs/facehuggers with them. The writers could then go into a whole series of movies similar to the dead series, showing different points of the outbreak with totally different people with completely different experiences sharing only one thing in common: The xenomorph's infestation of planet earth. They could even add in the confusion of the general populace not knowing how they came to be, as it would be a very restricted group that would know of the true nature of the outbreak. Those are my thoughts at least, sorry if it doesn't make sense, it's the best way I could think to explain them, using my second favorite series of movies.

[creepntom]

ok, i get it now. i'd also agree that it's the same universe. i wouldn't think they'd have made up valentine's day in a different universe

[The Alive Man]

Philly, Another possible assumption is that the GARs universe is one and only, but frequently re-arranged by RETCONS: Retroactive Continuity "waves" (fluctuations) that modify and somehow adjust the pre-existent reality with no specified reason behind (maybe it's an heavily unstable universe). From WIKI: "Retroactive continuity or retcon is the adding of new information to "historical" material, or deliberately changing previously established facts in a work of serial fiction. The change itself is referred to as a "retcon", and the act of writing and publishing a retcon is called "retconning". Retconning can be done either on-purpose, or accidentally, wherein a break in continuity is not noticed until later and is then blessed by later events. Retcons are common in comic books, especially those of large publishing houses such as Marvel Comics and DC Comics, because of the lengthy history of many series and the number of independent authors contributing to their development; this is the context in which the term was coined. Retconning also occurs in soap operas, movie sequels, professional wrestling, video games, radio series, series of novels, and can be done in any other type of episodic fiction. It is also used in roleplaying, when the game master feels it is needed to maintain consistency in the story or to fix significant mistakes that were missed during play." So basically, the events in NIGHT "at first" occurred in 1968 A.C., but suddenly a Retcon Wave translated those same events into the late '70ies, 3 weeks prior DAWN. DAWN originally occurred in 1978 A.C., then all the package (NIGHT + DAWN) was translated into 1985 A.C., and DAY thus occurred. Samely, the package slid down to the mid-2000, and LAND thus occurred. We're talking about DRASTICAL CHANGES to the background stories of the characters and the society (clothes, items, vehicles) in order to "collocate" the events of each Dead movie in a new decade. Example: Ben was supposedly 30 years-old when NIGHT originally happened in 1968, so he was born in 1938. When NIGHT was transferred into 1978 by the effect of a Retcon Wave, Ben was NOW born in 1948, of course, but everything else was basically the same. Likely, every dated vehicle in NIGHT went automatically "switched" with an equivalent but updated vehicle, whatever the Retcon Waves happened. The story remains the same (Ben; Barbara; the house): that's the "matrix". But all the marginal details "change" in order to adapt the reality to a new decade.

[EvilNed]

I'm sorry The Alive Man, but that's just an overly complicated way at looking at it and I don't really think it bears any difference whatsoever. The Dead films aren't supposed to be continuations of each other. Night reflects the 60's, Dawn the 70's and Day the 80's. With your Retcon theory, they would still be placed in different timelines. Which is what we've been saying all along.

[The Alive Man]

With your Retcon theory, they would still be placed in different timelines. Which is what we've been saying all along. No. With my retcon theory, it's one timeline where the movies/events update themselves, but stay true to their roots. However, I prefer the Stretch theory.

[Philly_SWAT]

Philly, Another possible assumption is that the GARs universe is one and only, but frequently re-arranged by RETCONS: Retroactive Continuity "waves" (fluctuations) that modify and somehow adjust the pre-existent reality with no specified reason behind (maybe it's an heavily unstable universe). The Alive Man, Seeing as you are so fond of "scientific sounding terms" to define the topic at hand, how about using "Occam's razor". To quote from your favorite source, wiki: Occam's razor states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating, or "shaving off," those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. In short, when given two equally valid explanations for a phenomenon, one should embrace the less complicated formulation. So given this widely accepted scientific principle, what seems more logical to you, that GAR, as a local filmmaker using limited budgets, limited means, and making a series of movies that are made as many as 20 years apart, that he intend simply for the movies to be set in "the now" ignoring the near-impossible task (and totally unnecesary task) of trying to try them all together using continuity throughout (i.e. no use of cell phones in Land seeing as they didnt exist in Night, etc.) or that a man who was in love with making movies, watching horror movies, and reading horror comics as a kid with no scientific training, chose to use RETCON and multi-convergence theories to weave his stories together? Which is the "less complicated formulation" in your mind?

[EvilNed]

No. With my retcon theory, it's one timeline where the movies/events update themselves, but stay true to their roots. However, I prefer the Stretch theory. This is contradicting yourself. A timeline which alters itself from it's previous version creates two different ones. With the Retcon theory, there are four timelines. One for Night, one for Dawn, one for Day and one for Land. Which makes sense, of course. But they can't be one timeline.

[DEAD BEAT]

yeah yeah yeah and the knee bone is conected to the diick bone!

[capncnut]

This Alive Man keeps digging himself in deeper and deeper!

[The Alive Man]

This is contradicting yourself. A timeline which alters itself from it's previous version creates two different ones. With the Retcon theory, there are four timelines. One for Night, one for Dawn, one for Day and one for Land. Which makes sense, of course. But they can't be one timeline. No. It's the same timeline, but the "content" INSIDE alters itself in some details. There is no split whatsoever. It's like when you update your antivirus program. The program is always the same, but pluggs-in somewhat enhance or modify it to "fit" the current task.

[EvilNed]

No. It's the same timeline, but the "content" INSIDE alters itself in some details. There is no split whatsoever. It's like when you update your antivirus program. The program is always the same, but pluggs-in somewhat enhance or modify it to "fit" the current task. If the content updates itself, then it replaces the old timeline. It certainly doesn't do that, since Night of the Living Dead does suddenly turn into a full color film with cellphones. So thus, altering the timeline would either spawn a new one or overwrite the old one. You can't have both. As I said, you're contradicting yourself with this stuff.

[The Alive Man]

It certainly doesn't do that, since Night of the Living Dead does suddenly turn into a full color film with cellphones. It happened so, like you're predicting, even if nobody saw it. The NIGHT movie depicts the timeline before the "change", the very first Retcon Wave. By the time the THIRD Retcon Wave happened, NIGHT featured cellphones. Wait a moment, there are many "coloured" DVD releases of NIGHT out of there... LOL!